Autopsy: No Arabs on Flight 77

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posted on Oct, 8 2005 @ 03:37 AM
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Originally posted by billybob
if they died, why aren't they dead?


Thorn seems to believe that the Social Security index will list everyone who's died in the US, but that just isn't true. It won't include people who don't have a social security number, and even if they do, they won't be on the list unless the family has reported the deaths to the SSA. See
www.911myths.com... for other possible exclusions.




posted on Oct, 8 2005 @ 03:52 AM
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Somebody throw some water on AgentSmith and billybob, they're getting all hot and excited with each other, and we all know what could happen...



God NOOOOOOOO~!!!

hehe...heh..hehe




I've tabulated the name lists from the AFIP, CNN and the Boston Globe.

AFIP Page 1, Page 2

CNN

Boston Globe



Comparing to the AFIP list, there are 3 names missing on the CNN list. Two of those missing names appear on the Boston Globe list, and the third, "Ploger, Zandra" is probably the extra name listed as "Cooper, Zandra". The Boston Globe list also includes "Falkenberg, Dana" the 3-year-old whose DNA was supposedly not found. The Boston Globe list is described as a "partial list". This website claims that the Boston Globe published the hijackers names but has since removed them. The website then claims that the full passenger list including the hijackers can be found at this link:
en.wikipedia.org...

I couldn't find it.

So with all the names accounted for on the AFIP list by the Boston Globe, that leaves three possible conclusions:

1. DNA traces of the five hijackers were completely destroyed, along with that of Dana Falkenberg. All other passengers were tracable.
2. The DNA of the hijackers was recovered but unable to be identified. One would expect this to be noted on the list. A comprehensive report from the AFIP would need to be obtained to confirm this.
3. The 5 hijackers were not on the plane. Original passenger manifests from AAL would need to be obtained to confirm this. The sierratimes article claims that AAL will not release the list and refused even to verify that they had given a list to CNN.

So two things required to finally clear up this mystery: The original, unredacted passenger list. And a full, unabridged report or a statement from AFIP confirming the presence or lack of unidentified DNA.

[edit on 2005-10-8 by wecomeinpeace]



posted on Oct, 8 2005 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
So two things required to finally clear up this mystery: The original, unredacted passenger list. And a full, unabridged report or a statement from AFIP confirming the presence or lack of unidentified DNA.


Absolutely right, I don't know if anyone can apply for that information somehow under FOIA - from the AFIP at least, I'm not American so I probably wouldn't have much luck anyway.

I think it's safe to conclude however that the statement "Autopsy: No Arabs on Flight 77" is inaccurate with the current information available and there is no proof that they were not on the flight from any available evidence - so we really do need that information.

Will we ever get it? Who knows....



posted on Oct, 8 2005 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by AgentSmith

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
So two things required to finally clear up this mystery: The original, unredacted passenger list. And a full, unabridged report or a statement from AFIP confirming the presence or lack of unidentified DNA.


Absolutely right, I don't know if anyone can apply for that information somehow under FOIA - from the AFIP at least, I'm not American so I probably wouldn't have much luck anyway.

I think it's safe to conclude however that the statement "Autopsy: No Arabs on Flight 77" is inaccurate with the current information available and there is no proof that they were not on the flight from any available evidence - so we really do need that information.

Will we ever get it? Who knows....


i guess it's safe to assume that no arabs are on the published passenger lists, or on the autopsy report.

so, why should we believe there were arabs aboard? how did they get on board without being on the passenger lists?

why is it 'safe' to assume anything regarding 911?



posted on Oct, 8 2005 @ 04:22 AM
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You questions have been answered several times, I suggest you go back through the thread and read it this time - instead of just looking at the pictures.



posted on Oct, 8 2005 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by AgentSmith
You questions have been answered several times, I suggest you go back through the thread and read it this time - instead of just looking at the pictures.


i don't think so.

no arabs on the autopsy OR the published passenger lists.
discrepencies in names and numbers of passengers.
a probability defying high ratio of military/industrial types involved in fly-by-wire tech on board.
straight out lying about who took the 1.8 million 'shut up and take the money' victim compensation package. (a claimed 98% vs. the breakdown which shows a completely different story)
olsen phone call discrepencies(no credit card for onboard phone, or, cell phones don't work over 8000 ft., calls 'untraceable'. also, if she was using the onboard seatphones, why couldn't anyone else? she made FOUR calls?)


i think you're cute. so innocent and naive.



posted on Oct, 8 2005 @ 04:30 PM
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I know and am aware of far more than you would ever know, your naivity in following 'cute' little rebel boy fashion the going trend of rebelling against anything 'official' your told is truly pathetic.
Does it ever occur to you that while the truth is not being told completely, it may be less glamorous than you'd like - though still being just as damning in many aspects?

I think we'll leave it to the readers to decide shall we, seeing as all your information has been explained or debunked?
The primary aspect of the thread having been debunked at least half a dozen times I would say - though I expect you'll find out it was 5 or 7 times in the confusion so the whole thing is a ruse!
I could repeat myself... again... and again... and so on.. as I have... *yawn* But there is little point as you simply repeat your statements without any backup up at all - the little you provide having been torn to shreds.

I assume the readers at least will have the ability and intelligence to read all the information rather than vainly attempt to warp facts, or more accurately simply repeat parrot fashion other people's warped perception of facts without showing any signs of individuality and ability in forming one's own opinon based on known information..


Hopefully common sense and education will prevail, otherwise I will truly start to believe we are part of some sort of dumbing down brainwashing plot to a far greater extent than I ever imagined!

The sheer fact you have that nonsense probablilty 'analysis' in your sig and I imagine actually believe it accurate says it all really.

[edit on 8-10-2005 by AgentSmith]



posted on Oct, 8 2005 @ 06:27 PM
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wow! you know more than i'll ever know! now there's a verifiable fact if i ever saw one.
i still think you're cute, big, authority figure guy.

so, then, in your 'debunking', you produced the original flight manifests from american(despite the fact that they will give them to no one), and you produced the tissue identification of people of arab decent from the autopsy list.

great.

can i see it?



posted on Oct, 8 2005 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by JediMaster
And who said those al-Qaida members were Arabs? If this report is true, you have to realize that whites,blacks, and other ethintiecis could've helped with al-Qaida.

I don't think the goverment did 9/11.


In case you don't remember--a few days afterward the FBI had pictures of the 19 alleged hijackers. ALL looked Arab.

Look here:


Interesting note--Mohammed Atta, the "ringleader" (yeah right) was found to be alive somewhere else. So were several others.



posted on Oct, 8 2005 @ 08:32 PM
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Interesting note--Mohammed Atta, the "ringleader" (yeah right) was found to be alive somewhere else. So were several others.


please enlighten me with your scources for this blockbuster claim. Intreresting note - prisonplanet doesn't count



posted on Oct, 8 2005 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by syrinx high priest
Interesting note--Mohammed Atta, the "ringleader" (yeah right) was found to be alive somewhere else. So were several others.


please enlighten me with your scources for this blockbuster claim. Intreresting note - prisonplanet doesn't count


Here is a list of hijackers found alive since 9/11. No, it's not Prison Planet or any other Alex Jones site.



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 02:44 AM
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Originally posted by Amethyst
Here is a list of hijackers found alive since 9/11.


More accurately, it's a list of people with similar or the same names saying they weren't involved. Not one of those stories proves they are the same people, and in fact there's a lot of other stories which suggests they're not.

Atta, for instance. If he phoned his father after the attack, why did his father "forget" to mention this in early interviews? And why, post the 7/7 bombings, did his father say this marked the beginning of a 50-year-war in which there would be many more fighters like his son? ( www.911myths.com... )

If Waleed and Wail al Shehri are still alive, then who are the family who first accepted they're missing, and now believe they were dead and involved? ( www.911myths.com... )

Likewise the father of the Al Hamzi's accepted they're missing ( www.911myths.com... ), same goes for Al-Nami ( www.911myths.com... ). The only reason Al Ghamdi is on the list is because CNN published a photo of him rather than the real hijacker ( www.911myths.com... ), and Al Omari proves the confusion over names because at least two people said they were him ( www.911myths.com... ).

[edit on 9-10-2005 by ashmok]



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by billybob
so, then, in your 'debunking', you produced the original flight manifests from american(despite the fact that they will give them to no one), and you produced the tissue identification of people of arab decent from the autopsy list.


As I already said - nothing can be conclusively proven without these.
The point is that it can't be conclusively 'proven' either way without the information and it does not automatically mean 'No Arabs on Flight 77'.

The only thing the AFIP report suggests, is that they were unable to find body parts of or identify the terrorists remains. As I've already said time and time again, if they had no reference to compare the samples too then they would have no base reference and therefore would be unable to identify it. The document is a list of identified people so there would be no mention.
It is an 'official' and military document, so I'm sure if they wanted to coverup somehow they would be in a prime positon to just throw the names on there for good measure. If they orchastrated the whole event I'm sure they would be more than capable to write a few names onto the list.
However they didn't, and one has to ask oneself anyway - if the names were on there - would you actually believe it and use it as evidence?
Or would you dismiss it as more official military lies due to the source?

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if you read the information on CNN, FOX, PrisonPlanet or someone's geocities website - the information HAS to originate from an official source if it is genuine becasue 'they' have all the evidence including bodies.

You have to be reasonable when using this information and interpreting it, otherwise you'd be better off turning the TV, Radio and Computer off and sticking your head in the sand because unless your a dab-hand at remote viewing or have a close relationship with God then you just arn't going to ever find out are you?

The point is that we know from the CCTV, Phone calls, Passports, etc that they were on the flight. But you and others don't believe any of that and I'm sure you wouldn't clutch this AFIP report so closely to your heart if their names were on there either.

So in essence you can argue if you like that there is no evidence that they were ever on there, but there is no evidence they weren't.

A more accurate title for this thread would be "Autopsy: No Arabs identified on Flight 77" - subtle change - big difference.

[edit on 9-10-2005 by AgentSmith]



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 04:47 AM
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I found a news story reporting on the AFIP's project:


www.cbsnews.com
Little attention has been paid to the terrorists' remains found mingled with those of the Pennsylvania and Pentagon victims.

“It's a unique situation,” said Dr. Jerry Spencer, a former chief medical examiner for the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, who worked 30 years as a Navy forensic pathologist. “The terrorists are usually not in our possession in the United States like this. The other issue is, will the families want them back?"

Four sets of remains in Pennsylvania and five at the Pentagon were grouped together as the hijackers - but not identified by name - through a process of elimination.

Families of the airplanes' passengers and crews and those who died within the Pentagon provided DNA samples, typically on toothbrushes or hairbrushes, to aid with identification. The remains that didn't match any of the samples were ruled to be the terrorists, said Chris Kelly, spokesman for the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, which did the DNA work. The nine sets of remains matched the number of hijackers believed to be on the two planes.

Without reference samples from the hijackers' personal effects or from their immediate families to compare with the recovered DNA, the remains could not be matched to individuals.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


According to the AFIP, the terrorist's remains were indeed found but not identified, hence not included on the list.

I'd put in an FOIA request for the passenger manifests, but I'm not in the US. Maybe someone else can.

[edit on 2005-10-9 by wecomeinpeace]



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 06:14 AM
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Excellent find there mate!



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 07:29 AM
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Doesn't necessarily mean the remains belonged to the "terrorists" though. They could have belonged to the other passengers--and whoever was doing the autopsies just assumed.

They could also be telling us a flat-out lie.

Those are two other possibilities.



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by Amethyst
Doesn't necessarily mean the remains belonged to the "terrorists" though. They could have belonged to the other passengers--and whoever was doing the autopsies just assumed.

I think all the passengers were accounted for in the list.


They could also be telling us a flat-out lie.

This is true of course, and military installations aren't exactly 100% trustworthy when it comes to uncovering government lies, just like the military lab that confirmed thet Fake-o-Saddam is the real deal and wouldn't allow any independent tests or release their control sample details. That's why the original passenger manifests would be an interesting read.

Is anyone willing to put in an FOIA request?



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Amethyst
Doesn't necessarily mean the remains belonged to the "terrorists" though. They could have belonged to the other passengers--and whoever was doing the autopsies just assumed.


No, everyone else was accounted for, as WCIP said.



They could also be telling us a flat-out lie.

Those are two other possibilities.


Geez I must be psychic, what did I say would happen if the report backed up the official story.. see above:


Originally posted by AgentSmith
It is an 'official' and military document, so I'm sure if they wanted to coverup somehow they would be in a prime positon to just throw the names on there for good measure. If they orchastrated the whole event I'm sure they would be more than capable to write a few names onto the list.
However they didn't, and one has to ask oneself anyway - if the names were on there - would you actually believe it and use it as evidence?
Or would you dismiss it as more official military lies due to the source?
.....................

The point is that we know from the CCTV, Phone calls, Passports, etc that they were on the flight. But you and others don't believe any of that and I'm sure you wouldn't clutch this AFIP report so closely to your heart if their names were on there either.


*hmmmmmmmmm* and tonights winning Lotto numbers are.....

[edit on 9-10-2005 by AgentSmith]



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 12:04 PM
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okay.
so, 58 plus 5 = 64
or the original cnn 50 pass. plus six crew plus six terrorists = 62
or, the other one, 59 plus five, which actually works out to 64.

still confused.
still no mainfests.
not even a confirmed arabic tissue sample(although there was an anthropologist on the identification team.

i, merely for the sake of argument, of course, assume that the army fabricated the autopsies in an effort to fake the deaths of the elite military/industrial crew on board the real flight 77. refitted a3 skyhawks may have been the actual missiles. did you know that THREE of four of the ill-fated flights had raytheon employees on board?
barbara olson was recently claimed to have been arrested in europe with a fistful of dollars.

someone's lying. i am not jumping to conclusions.



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 12:47 PM
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Oh come off it mate, no one can be that slow, you've got to be putting it on.


Originally posted by billybob
okay.
so, 58 plus 5 = 64


The AFIP report lists 'identified' people. The girl's, Dana Falkenberg, body was never found. They only knew she was on the plane becasue they were told and the parents were on there. That's why those numbers seemingly don't tally up. It has been said numerous times in this thread.



or the original cnn 50 pass. plus six crew plus six terrorists = 62


Actually the CNN list has 55 people on it and is missing the baby, the couple on their honeymoon and Sandra Teague. And of course the terrorists as we already know about them.
Depending on how they got the information, and it doesn't sound like it was 'officially' as AA won't confirm it, would decide how accurate it is. If the honeymoon couple were last minute then the copy that someone got hold of may not have even been up to date. It's hardly condemning evidenc of anything, no matter how you look at it really.



still confused.


If you can't grasp all this simple information, please don't try anything more complicated.



still no mainfests.


Tell us something we don't know, in fact just try and tell us something useful.



not even a confirmed arabic tissue sample(although there was an anthropologist on the identification team.


They don't actually say one way or another, I guess they expect people to work it out for themselves. For the people that can't I imagine they expected the person reading it out for them to explain.



i, merely for the sake of argument, of course, assume that the army fabricated the autopsies in an effort to fake the deaths of the elite military/industrial crew on board the real flight 77. refitted a3 skyhawks may have been the actual missiles. did you know that THREE of four of the ill-fated flights had raytheon employees on board?


And they were too stupid to put fake arabic names on the lists DOH!



barbara olson was recently claimed to have been arrested in europe with a fistful of dollars.


Oh your on about that bogus story made up by some moron on some two bit nothing website a while back. You didn't actually believe that did you?

Even Rense of all people says it's bogus:


The current internet appearance of the story claiming Barbara 'Olsen' has been arrested in Europe is devoid of substance. There is not one micron of proof. The story is simply not journalism at this point in time.

Extraordinary claims DEMAND extraordinary proof. There is nothing in the 'Olsen' story to substantiate it.

First, her last name is or was misspelled 'Olsen'. It is 'Olson' and may by now be corrected.

Even more lamentable is the claim she was arrested at the 'Polish-Austrian' border.

Unfortunately, these two countries do not share a common border...as a quick look at any map of Europe will show.
rense.com...


Geez, if I'd realised how many people were gullible I'd start a website with make believe stories on just so I could laugh at the jokers that suck it all up. Like Tom Flocco probably is.
I forgot, anything that isn't official - is bound to be true!

If you actually have some proof and a decent argument, then please share. But if all you can do is keep going in circles like a dog chasing it's tail and keep repeating the same unfounded statements that have been proven as wrong or irrelevant, then please don't bother.

If all your interested in is being a 'rebel without a cause' then there are plenty of anarchy websites out there that would be happy for you to join up.

I just loved this guys comment, it sums it all up really, I thought I'd post it for anyone that can't be bothered to read the link because it is worth reading, not only is it funny but it is also a true point:


Comment
Rosalee Grable
9-24-5

Invitations are open to all to see who can make up the biggest load of bull****, and dress it up with the most bravado in the inaugural Tom Flocco alternative media awards.

I've previously submitted two examples so that contestants can see what kind of material is required. It should be noted however that I broke one important rule in those two examples. That is - the very basic conclusions of the articles were accidentally true, even though the spin presented to make the argument was a load of crap. Such accidental truthfulness should be avoided.

The rules are as follows.

1. No sources from anything checkable in the public domain are to be used.

2. There should be some kind of hero in the story - someone who knows more than anyone else and is risking career, life and limb to reveal it.

3. The story should strongly imply that justice for the evil doers is about to take its course through the legal system, so all you have to do is cheer and donate.

4. The alleged facts and sources should be vague that nobody can specifically identify a tangible "error" as such.

5. The story should preferably comprise one hero interviewing another hero about what a third hero told them, so that when the story fades away or busts, its difficult to point the finger at anyone specifically.

The winner will be eligible for significant funding from USG covert propaganda agencies to set up their own alternative media website and radio station.

So get cracking on those keyboards and start manufacturing! Let Tom Flocco be your inspiration. Study closely the techniques of the master. Any old bull**** will do.


[edit on 9-10-2005 by AgentSmith]





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