What is Behind the Dramatic Rise in Violent Crime in the UK?

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Freeborn

If murderers had guns they would kill more people is an opinion not a fact. I admit it is possible, but I believe it more likely that a murderer will find a way to kill whomever he wants to regardless of what weapons are available. The increase in murders in London proves that. Less guns than New York but for the first quarter of 2018 the numbers were nearly equal as shown in the chart posted earlier.

I don't want or insist that you or anyone else have US style gun laws. I never did.

I see news articles like the one I linked with charts showing the numbers, and I hear your mayor talking about a dramatic increase in murder and I comment on it. If you think that makes me an arrogant American then I have to assume you are an ignorant Brit for ignoring the facts.

There, we are both using insults now. Does that make it better? You so-called civilized brits seem to resort to insults and name calling pretty easily.

In first 6 months of 2018 New York had almost twice the number of homicides that London did.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

2003 the bastards went door to door all up and down the one multistory flat trying to catch poor souls where we lived at the time for TV licence.

We clocked the swine and told a few of the wee neds, miraculously their motor that was parked at the bottom of the flats was burned out by the time they got back down the lift.

Guys standing there face like fizz, nearly in tears, bumping his gums and going on to Police and Firemen how its not fair, that it was his own car and not a company motor, how he is only doing a job, well so were the wee neds i suppose.

Full flats are all at there windows pissing themselves laughing.

Moral of that story is be careful as to one's line of employment, coz bastards be bastards after all and its nice to be nice.

a reply to: andy06shake
Hahaha!!!
It's like that here, I saw a bailiff bothering an old neighbour a couple of years ago, shouted and asked her if she wanted me to be her advocate, she said yes so I run him off her property, bastards.
Choose a #e job and face the consequences I say.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Aye, they like to pick there targets eh?

Just like most bullies there not up for tackling anyone that bites back.

To be honest, i could not be a bailiff, not only would it be soul destroying, but you would expect to get smacked in the puss at least a few times a day, and you would deserve it as well.

Not a profession anyone but the most extreme of bastards should ever consider really, need to be a wrong'yin to do that job.

a reply to: andy06shake

I couldn't be a bailiff either. My son got invited to be trained to be one a year ago, he's a big hard lad, and he asked me what I thought because the money was so good...my response was "I'll always love you son, but I may sometimes not love what you choose to do"...he declined, and knew exactly what I meant.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Freeborn

If murderers had guns they would kill more people is an opinion not a fact. I admit it is possible, but I believe it more likely that a murderer will find a way to kill whomever he wants to regardless of what weapons are available. The increase in murders in London proves that. Less guns than New York but for the first quarter of 2018 the numbers were nearly equal as shown in the chart posted earlier.

I don't want or insist that you or anyone else have US style gun laws. I never did.

I see news articles like the one I linked with charts showing the numbers, and I hear your mayor talking about a dramatic increase in murder and I comment on it. If you think that makes me an arrogant American then I have to assume you are an ignorant Brit for ignoring the facts.

There, we are both using insults now. Does that make it better? You so-called civilized brits seem to resort to insults and name calling pretty easily.

In first 6 months of 2018 New York had almost twice the number of homicides that London did.

USA Today

After murder rate passes NYC, London Mayor Sadiq Khan calls for sharper knife control

We've been through this already. It wasn't just my opinion it was statements from London's Mayor and at least somewhat respectable news papers. Whether the statistics remained in that balance or not is really irrelevant for purposes of this discussion. The point was made that determined murderers will find a way and banning guns doesn't equate to being safer. Even if London took the lead for one month it is still a shocking development and a poor reflection on the legislation.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Freeborn

If murderers had guns they would kill more people is an opinion not a fact. I admit it is possible, but I believe it more likely that a murderer will find a way to kill whomever he wants to regardless of what weapons are available. The increase in murders in London proves that. Less guns than New York but for the first quarter of 2018 the numbers were nearly equal as shown in the chart posted earlier.

I don't want or insist that you or anyone else have US style gun laws. I never did.

I see news articles like the one I linked with charts showing the numbers, and I hear your mayor talking about a dramatic increase in murder and I comment on it. If you think that makes me an arrogant American then I have to assume you are an ignorant Brit for ignoring the facts.

There, we are both using insults now. Does that make it better? You so-called civilized brits seem to resort to insults and name calling pretty easily.

In first 6 months of 2018 New York had almost twice the number of homicides that London did.

USA Today

After murder rate passes NYC, London Mayor Sadiq Khan calls for sharper knife control

We've been through this already. It wasn't just my opinion it was statements from London's Mayor and at least somewhat respectable news papers. Whether the statistics remained in that balance or not is really irrelevant for purposes of this discussion. The point was made that determined murderers will find a way and banning guns doesn't equate to being safer. Even if London took the lead for one month it is still a shocking development and a poor reflection on the legislation.

It's entirely reinvent as 1 month of being higher is a statistical blip, nothing else.

Determined murderers may or may not find another method but what about all the other non determined murderers and heat of the moment killings?

www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org...=15425334205978& _ct=1542533420624&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s

a reply to: ScepticScot

Most of these murders are spur of the moment actions or kids plunging one another with blades.

They're not exactly premeditated and planned out with determination, to suggest otherwise is simple scaremongering.

Simple solution, scrap austerity, give the muppets something to do and the funds to do so, essentially reinstitute the bread and circuses and the crime statistics will once again begin to diminish.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy
it does not seem like anybody in Britain is polite. You can insult one another in a mild mannered tone, that is not being polite. The only thing that will bring civility back to Britain is more guns. It is time to open your markets again, your people need defense. The criminal youth need to see their friends die to realize that a life of crime does not pay. Because as it sits now, pretty much based on everything your guys are testifying too, is that crime in Britain does pay.

Open your markets to the firearms industry, and your crime will plummet as criminals die off in record numbers.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

More guns would be carnage, honestly mate.
If every Brit had a side arm on a drunken weekend night then people would be killed at alarming levels.
We are a violent society anyway, but stick pistols in the mix and it would be terrible.
The only folk stabbing each other at high rates are black youths in London. It's safe where I am, just expect a fist fight at worse.
It is different to the US.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Aye coz that's what guns do they bring civility.

Not heard so much crap in a while really. LoL

Hat and a balloon for you ya lunatic.

a reply to: andy06shake

It would be a disaster if any muppet could buy a pistol from Tesco's, it really would.
I support UK gun laws. They wouldn't work in the US because they already have so many in circulation, but in Britain it works.
I can use a cafe chair or something to defend against a knife, but not so much with a pistol pointed in my face.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Friday night in town after the dancing comes out would be rather ""intersting"" to say the least.

a reply to: andy06shake
It would be #ing carnage, just imagine it "You looking at my bird?" or "You spilled my pint you #", no Britain is violent enough and pistols in the mix would be a disaster.
Our cops would also carry firearms as well then and that is a scary thought, no, keep things as they are, just a pity black youths in London are stabbing each other, a true societal and cultural tragedy.

a reply to: Freeborn

The truth is there is a glorification of the US style gang culture that has resulted in people from inner city areas of London associating more with the likes of the Bloods and Crips than they do with more traditional UK style gangs.

Traditional UK gangs??

In what way are those differing from the US gang culture?? I suppose, given the popularity, world wide, of such things as gangster rap, and the supposed lifestyle that goes with it, I shouldn't be surprised--saddened, yes, but not surprised.

a reply to: seagull
Old school gangs in the UK only fight other gangs, but that is rare because their common interest is illegal trade.
There is a massive difference in the black youth gangs in London stabbing each other and gangs in the rest of the UK.
I live in a traditional gang area, everyone gets on, the cops know who runs what and let it slide because the gangs sort out people who break the rules.

A gang member/leader here will help old Mrs Smith home with her shopping, and if anyone harmed old Mrs Smith they could expect a beating if they were lucky. Cops know this, traditional English gangs keep the peace in any town outside of that #hole London where they're all stabbing each other, cops don't.

a reply to: Freeborn

Read it, and still don't understand the reference. Is it an English thing?

I even googled it...and enlightenment remains elusive.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy


Just like this only with a lot of bang, bang...bangs i imagine.

a reply to: andy06shake
That scene is horrible, I've seen two glassings happen in my life, pint glasses stoved into two faces scarred for life.
British people drunk are violent as #, pistols in the mix would be mass death, not just major injuries.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

It is horrible indeed, but it perfectly illustrates the craziness and mentality of some people kicking about to go mental at the drop of a hat, and why it is probably best, that we don't have easy access to firearms.

And the fact of the matter is that reality is far worse than the fictional event portrayed by an order of magnitude really.