It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

At what point will you admit you were wrong? At what point will you fight for change?

page: 1
16
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 12:27 AM
link   
What does it take for a person to admit that their views were wrong? When can we all just fight for change?

I don't mean at our local elections - sure, some good was done, but corruption runs deep. The swamp only gets deeper each year, and Trump has only promised to drain it because it's good for the real estate value ( which, what the hell does a record dow Jones mean if necessities like housing are less affordable than ever? Starting to think the stock market only serves the rich )

On that note... How much money needs to go to the rich before the entire "trickle down" philosophy finally dies out? 99 percent? Should everyone but a handful of people be so poor they can barely afford shelter, and the rich still held on pedestals - even though their true place in the market is nearly worthless ( supply and demand - who creates the supply, who demands the services, who provides the services, who does 99.9 percent of the work? Hint - it's the common people. Not the rich. Also another note, unless you're a billionaire, don't get all butt hurt when people talk about the rich - we're not talking about you or something you'll ever become. )

How much corruption does the media and politicians need to show before we all boycott every one of them? ( just as much fox news as CNN, just as much Trump as Obama or the Clinton's, for those only agreeing with me because of your partisan beliefs )

How many people need to go bankrupt from medical costs or just die or live in sickness before we finally say the richest nation on earth should have equal or better Healthcare than other first world nations ? ( hint, we spend more than them on Healthcare, we just don't manage anything right, saying you refuse to pay for others health makes you a moron, not others )

How many problems does your home nation need to have before you stop pointing at other nations? Russia is not the cause of most USA issues - politicians and corporations are.

What will it take for you to admit the party you align with has just as many skeletons in their closet, just as much corruption and illegal, immoral activities as the other party? ( at the top, the average citizen can actually get along - politicians alongside the media like to paint a different picture, though.)

Admittedly, this entire post could be wrong.. But maybe there's something in here that resonates with someone. If you agree with something, extrapolate, let's talk about it. If you disagree, let's talk about it.

-deadlyhope
edit on 13-11-2018 by deadlyhope because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-11-2018 by deadlyhope because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 02:08 AM
link   
a reply to: deadlyhope

Excellent OP. Well thought out and well written.

I'm too sleepy to respond right now. But I hope to in the morning.




posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 03:03 AM
link   
Not allied with any political affiliation, the tax policies have benefited me and co-workers directly. Although I'm what you might call rich, I don't exactly see it that way, but I am in the top 5% in the US for income. As for corruption, SSDD on that, regardless of who you put into office it's always going to be there, always has been there.

As for healthcare, yeah it's garbage. Well unless you have money and work somewhere that pays a hefty % of the costs. I have max out of pocket expenses of $1500 for my family, which runs me pre-tax about 15k per year. I know that's not realistic for most people, but it works really well for me, as my wife's 200k+ back surgery cost me exactly $1500 and not a penny more, with no increase in premiums. If you eliminated a lot of the administrative overhead to the medical system I think it could do some real good in bringing down costs, but then you start impacting the healthcare sector as a good % of their employees are part of that administrative overhead.

There's no real easy answer for it, however if you think I'm giving up a bigger slice of the pie I've earned (of which I pay 46% when accounting for federal and state), that's not going to happen. Better management of the dollars that were taxed needs to happen before I even consider an increase in my taxes as a viable option. Not to try and sound harsh about it, but survival of the fittest is a real thing, and unfortunately as has been the case throughout history, the fittest tend to have the most money or bargaining power.

We've come a long way from 1918 to 2018, not saying we don't have farther to go as I think that we can always progress in positive ways. Yet if you look through history it's normally in fits and starts and not a linear progression. So I think right now we just are riding the wave of a spike before another dark period...or maybe we're in the dark period? Won't know until a few hundred years out when the historians evaluate us on our progress according to their ideals.



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 03:04 AM
link   
What will it take for you to admit that your views are wrong?

Taxation is theft. Unless you don’t look for every deduction you can, you agree with me

Thinking that everyone should Not Pay each other bills, doesn’t make you a moron, it just means you want people to pay their fair share. If one spends cable, cell phone, adult beverages, sugary substances, and so on, but not healthcare. That means you can afford health care and choose not do and cry and want others to do it for you. Grow up and take care of your business before you take care of pleasure



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 05:26 AM
link   
a reply to: deadlyhope

Well, to be honest, the general theme of your OP comes off as "redistribution of wealth" which is a pretty entrenched vision of the left, so I wouldn't characterize it as bi-partisan by any means (if that's what you were going for).

However, on the theme of all politicians being bad I would agree to an extent. The REAL evil is establishment politicians, and there are many, who absolutely say one thing and do something completely opposite behind the curtain...every time. Those dirtbags should be publicly stoned, right AND left, because their only master is greed and Satan himself.

I guess lastly, if you want people to admit their political posture is wrong, you first have to find something all sides can agree on. This is the biggest challenge of all, but there is one thing (in my humble opinion). It seems like we should all be able to agree on reducing government waste and inefficiency. The US government is a colossally inefficient machine and could not survive for even a single day in a competitive environment; they'd get murdered. With the amount of taxes this country's citizens pay, about 50% of that money is just thrown away through waste and graft. It's trillions of dollars, and I don't care whose side you're on, that's just flat wrong! Frankly, it's criminal and people should be either thrown out or be behind bars because of it. The real trick here though is finding and agreeing on the starting point...and it's not long before you're right back into partisan politics again.

So, your mission, should you decide to accept it...is to find a universally agreeable starting point.

I'll throw a couple out there as suggestions, but I suspect I'll get push back even on these:

- Internal Revenue Service
- Department of the Interior
- Department of Energy
- Department of Housing and Urban Affairs
- Department of Homeland Security
- Department of Labor
- Department of Education
- Department of Defense (everyone will jump all over this one, but it ain't that easy).



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 09:21 AM
link   
a reply to: SocratesJohnson

I'm arguing more that our government is blatantly incompetent with the taxes they do collect.

Taxes are inevitable for now - public roads, police and fire departments, etc are just bound to always be paid by taxes. Would it be better if everything was privatized? Maybe. It probably won't happen, though

And no, Healthcare cannot be bought by the money people spent on luxuries. Hundreds to thousands a month to get terrible plans with thousands in deductibles? That's not the cost of a bag of doritos, more like a 50 percent raise for the lower class....

Plus, we already are being taxed for health care even with the price gouging, inefficiency, and corruption. We pay more than other nations, it'd just take competency to streamline it to where everyone is covered.

Somehow people think that money just exists for those who will take it while more and more is being funneled to the top and denied to those actually putting in the man hours for that money.

Like my first post says - what will it take for people to think those at the top are getting too much? Do we all need to be homeless?



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 09:22 AM
link   

originally posted by: SocratesJohnson
What will it take for you to admit that your views are wrong?

Taxation is theft. Unless you don’t look for every deduction you can, you agree with me

Thinking that everyone should Not Pay each other bills, doesn’t make you a moron, it just means you want people to pay their fair share. If one spends cable, cell phone, adult beverages, sugary substances, and so on, but not healthcare. That means you can afford health care and choose not do and cry and want others to do it for you. Grow up and take care of your business before you take care of pleasure

This right here, especially the bolded part.

OP, pay attention. Many of the people who complain about healthcare costs have paid damn good money to destroy their own health over many years. Perhaps you should say:
At what point will people stop paying good money to self destruct their own health and admit they just want to live irresponsibly and force others to pay for their poor choices in life!



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 09:25 AM
link   
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I think everyone could probably agree the government is inefficient and just wasteful.

Most would probably stick to their partisanship.. "Republicans are the wasteful ones!" "democrats are the wasteful ones!"

But I guess if fingers were being pointed to the top, those in DC, it'd be better than the current state of affairs where the media has us pointing at our neighbor or those g d Hispanics, right? ( which, why does no one fault business owners for taking advantage of illegal or cheap labor, rather than blame immigration for all our ills?)



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 09:29 AM
link   
a reply to: worldstarcountry

So if I gave up all junk food I eat in a whole month, it'd probably save me about... 80 dollars.

Cheapest plan for my family is something like 500 a month, and covers nothing. Huge deductible, so not helpful for anything we've experienced so far, guess eating cheetos once a week isn't rotting our bones like you suggest.

Can we at least agree that the Healthcare system is broken and fixing it would benefit all?



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 11:23 AM
link   
a reply to: deadlyhope
Not just the junk food, the caffeine, the tobacco, the alcohol. The processed ready to eat microwave meals. the Hamburger and pasta roni helper loaded with sodium.

I got five kids and we canceled insurance. We came up with a system. We calculated the price of premiums we paid prior to freedom being resotred, and calculated if we just saved them in a CD we can have it ready with a little bit extra when the kids immunizations come up upon CD maturity. And since the doctor visit plus the shots barely even touched a quarter of what was saved, we re-roll what is left plus any we saved prior to maturity.

No need to send hundred of dollars a month to a private company that has no interest in providing you with services when you need them without paying double the cost of what you already paid in premiums as the deductible.
That math never made sense to me. But what we are doing now does.



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 11:35 AM
link   

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: worldstarcountry

So if I gave up all junk food I eat in a whole month, it'd probably save me about... 80 dollars.

Cheapest plan for my family is something like 500 a month, and covers nothing. Huge deductible, so not helpful for anything we've experienced so far, guess eating cheetos once a week isn't rotting our bones like you suggest.

Can we at least agree that the Healthcare system is broken and fixing it would benefit all?


You forgot about car payments, iphones, cable television, etc.

People don't prioritize what is important. Sometimes you have to do without something so you can be prepared for emergencies.



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 11:47 AM
link   
a reply to: Edumakated
Right. We are driving the same used vehicles that I bought in cash, one in 2011 (1996 sedan) and another in 2015 (2007 Mini-van). The sentra has been reliable, but I think I am going to sign up with lift and just do 20 rides a week for a nice new car with a 200$ deposit. But the key thing is, we own these vehicles, so we can save bigly on insurance, while at the same time NOT making hundreds of dollars of payments on a newer leased vehicle.

Also no cable tv, no crazy data packages for the cell phone. My phone bill is 25$ a month for unlimited talk and text from a service I buy at 7-11 . It says only 1GB of data, but I swear that # is unlimited because I stream music on the go and browse the web when not near hotspots and somehow I never reach my data max. I sometimes even watch youtube videos if something crazy happened and I am not home to see on the PC. It is technically a 23$ plan but with tax its $25.01 when I pay at the counter.

My credit cards only carry secured balances, as in I pretty much only use them to buy gold and silver bullion on the dips with 0% promotional APR's. I sell some during peaks just to have some cushion for the next few payments, and then sell what is left that I do not own before the 0% apr is over. typically get 12-18 months but sometimes 24 months. I been doing this since 2013. Its worked out quite well, I have been able to stack up on gold and silver over the years as a result, giving my family quite the safety net in liquidable hard money if ever needed.

Also, I figure a 100 ounce bar of silver will suffice to get each of my children their first started cars in high school as it will hold value better than fire kindling known as paper notes.

We just got to really think it out and run the numbers man. People should not let corporations tell advise them how to manage their finances, with a little bit of time and research, most of us can really figure out some stuff on our own.

I am not a professional or college educated. Just some jackass that made some dumb decisions as a youth, and decided to turn that around at the age of 26 with very thorough research and maybe a little bit of financial risk taking.



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 12:00 PM
link   
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Well, to be honest, the general theme of your OP comes off as "redistribution of wealth" which is a pretty entrenched vision of the left, so I wouldn't characterize it as bi-partisan by any means (if that's what you were going for).

However, on the theme of all politicians being bad I would agree to an extent.

You hit it out of the park here, what do you propose to do about it. you have 72 hours and 48 million dollars what, and how could you change everything?



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 12:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: deadlyhope

The US government is a colossally inefficient machine and could not survive for even a single day in a competitive environment; they'd get murdered.


You probably don't really want the government run like a business. That's how we got health care costs spiraling out of control (when health care got taken over by large corporations rather than being local health centers) and caused the exorbitant price of drugs that we suffer under today.

I watched our local government outsource our IT department because it made "business sense" and they ended up with a website they couldn't modify (and haven't been able to for the past 15 years) and contractors who change and don't know individual needs.

If the government is run like a business, you'd be taxed even more so that some group that's "in the business of governing" can raise profits to their stockholders.



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 01:02 PM
link   
a reply to: Byrd

Probably better to say that government should be run with the efficiency of a well run business. Meaning money is not wasted in fulfilling their mission. That said, the mission of government is much different than a for profit enterprise. Many things benefit society that do not have profits and cost money. I'm all for that, but in that respect government should not be run like a for profit business.



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 01:46 PM
link   
I drive a 2004 Chevy cavalier, bought and paid for. $0 a month

My lady drives a 2015 Hyundai Tucson making $400/month payments.

Needless to say, the difference in our health plans is substantial. (And I actually make more money than her. It's just a matter of priorities.)

Most middle class citizens can afford decent healthcare if they wanted it. The problem is they don't want it bad enough to make SACRIFICES.

Sure, healthcare should be more affordable...but to say that it's not affordable is disingenuous.


The distribution of wealth is just something that comes with capitalism. There's not a lot I can see changing that. I meet a lot of people who lean left that tend to see the rich as some sort of footstool...or ladder. And that's just not the way it is. Stealing from the rich is no better than stealing from the poor, it's still theft. To suggest that the rich don't do their share of lifting is, again, disingenuous.


Boycotting the media is simply a pipedream. It is human nature to feel good when someone agrees with ones own beliefs and views. That's why the left tend to watch and listen to left leaning media and the right prefer the right leaning...


The US has many problems, the most common is being that we don't see each other as Americans first and foremost. However, don't let that distract you from the good...and certainly don't let it dissuade you from making it better.

A2D



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 01:56 PM
link   
All I see here is a bunch of personal opinions and zero facts or ideas.

Someone goes bankrupt from medical bills, and liberals jump straight to govt owned and run healthcare. That's not ideas. That's just giving up and expecting someone else to take care of you.



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 02:20 PM
link   
a reply to: jjkenobi

Literally every nation with better quality of life than the USA has national Healthcare.

We could literally afford it with the money we already spend on Healthcare.

I'm not saying anyone needs to give more money. I'm saying we should use what we have more efficiently.



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 02:23 PM
link   
You my friend, need to run for office. Any office. a reply to: deadlyhope



posted on Nov, 13 2018 @ 02:38 PM
link   
Spoken like a person who has not attained their perceived position in life. It’s obvious the op needed a starting point to state their position.

At this point, Only bots and trolls haven’t been touched by cancer, or Alzheimer’s, or heart disease. Oops forgot addiction....... We need national health care that gives everyone......state of the art treatment.

Tell ya what. I’ll agree to keep an ar under my bed, and train every weekend, if we can siphon off enough defense dollars to provide high quality health care for my fellow americans. a reply to: Flyingclaydisk



new topics

top topics



 
16
<<   2 >>

log in

join