I can't imagine not having a national health service funded by taxes.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
I have a disease called Meniere's, it is a condition with no cure which results in deafness and permanent lack of balance.
It was undiagnosed until recently, I get 'whiteouts' like a blackout but white noise in my ears and white loss of vision like an electric shock, I'm still aware of myself just lose sense of sound, vision, and lose balance. Loads of scars from falling this year.

Before docs knew what it was I've had allsorts, from MRI scans to heart monitors, all paid for by my taxes over the years. Now I'm on a drug which keeps me stable ish so I can continue still working. Like a fool I thought I had another strip of the tablets left but nope, I'd run out, on a Friday evening. It is a drug which needs a doctor prescription so as my doc's was closed I rang 111 healthline. Friendly person, checked my name and stuff, then emailed the pharmacy my prescription to pick up in the next hour if I need to.

I am so pleased, honestly, last time I ran out I was collapsing within two days, got the scars to prove it lol.
So, just celebrating universal healthcare here, I think everyone should have it in the world. I can't imagine going bankrupt for healthcare bills...and I'm still definitely in credit with the NHS, I've paid many many tens of thousands in tax all my working life from age 16.

Universal healthcare rocks...and just saved my sorry ass with a phonecall...and it cost me nothing, not even the phonecall.

I too have Meniere's.

I have had it for 12 years now.

We don''t have a National Health Service, and I'm doing fine.

And for the record "it is a condition with no cure which CAN result in deafness and permanent lack of balance"

My health insurance covered all of my MRIs and specialists. And that was BEFORE Obamacare. Now, however, most of that is out of pocket because of a lovely gift the Democrats gave us called "deductibles"

Here's a tip, excercise, sweat, and eat healthy. Get that heart rate up! It's the best treatment for Meniere's there is.

The vertigo is no joke, the pressure in my ears was so bad, it felt like my Cochlea was going to explode. I also have Patulous Eustachian Tube as well, and that adds to the discomfort greatly.

I support Universal Health Care, but lets not pretend that it's the only choice that works, that's simply not true.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
With my current insurance, which is part of my employment but which I still pay into, that would cost me $5,000. That's my out of pocket maximum for an individual. Plus you can add in the $10k per year I pay into the insurance premium from pocket. Prior to America's attempt at universal (albeit non-single payer universal) healthcare, AKA "Obamacare," the same insurance plan cost me about $1,200 a year and my out of pocket maximum was $1,000 with a $500 deductible.

This country's efforts to insure everyone has caused my costs to skyrocket. For obvious reasons I have zero desire to see the government try to "help make things affordable" for me again, I simply cannot afford their help.

How lucky are you to be in that position?

Unfortunately many have neither the income or health to be in your position .......

and that is what universal healthcare is our NHS is all about.


If you were in a RTA where you were in intensive care, unconcious for some time

maybe paralysed, disabled, you would be relieved of the stress of how will you pay

for the treatment.


I was around before the NHS and can remember hearing my parents talking in low

voices as to whether it was serious enough to be able to have a doctor visit or call

out. NHS is available to everyone rich or poor, however as in all walks of life the

rich can and will buy the *designer* treatment, but NHS means no one does

without the best service of what they require or need healthwise.


I too was lucky enough to have private insurance through my company before I

retired how ever it afforded me the same treatment and Doctors as the

NHS the only difference being I was able to chose the time and recover in a small

private hospital .

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown

Dude what is that even a graph of?, i can tell the x axis is years, waaaay back to 2005 but what is the y axis and what is it showing us

All I know is the NHS was founded in 1958 so your graph needs to be bigger

The history of the NHS. The NHS was born out of a long-held ideal that good healthcare should be available to all, regardless of wealth. Use this interactive timeline to find out what's happened since Aneurin Bevan officially started the National Health Service on July 5 1948.
The history of the NHS
www.nhs.uk...

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

Something tells me taxation without representation was not the idea behind that.

Would you mind telling me why it is you think doctors and other medical people should not be forced to work for free for the general welfare and greater good? Why are they doctors if they don't have any interest in prioritizing "the general welfare" over personal profit?

Why should they be forced to work for free??

They have educated themselves to make a good living and support themselves

and pay taxes. They also take an oath to save lives so they obviously priorotise

welfare and lives.

They are salaried and do not and neither should they work for free!

My grandaughter training to be a paramedic was taught her first duty as a

paramedic was to give aid at ALL times even when not at work.

A socialist who believes that overpaid professional racketeers should drive nice cars and live comfortable middle class lives while their poorest patients fight for life?

Personally not a socialist..... but what is your opinion on the salary of a

Doctor who saves lives and is often operating for more hours than many

workers do...... and imo the exhorbitant salaries of celebrities and over

paid footballers etc.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: burdman30ott6
You glad I don't live there?
I'm going one day and overstaying my tourist visa just to be an illegal because I can lol

hahahahhahaa

i dig your style

i dont know the logistics of any of this because im stupid but i still say the US should legalize marijuana federally. 100% legal recreation. open a gang of dispensaries. tax it at a hefty but fair rate.
couple that money with money not spent harassing people on the side of the road and money not spent keeping people in prison and roll that # into some sort of healthcare funding for ALL of us.

if it cant pay for it in the style that Cornish has it would go a long way to lowering rates or premiums or something.

maybe all our insurance rates would stay the same but we would have x amount per person per year to access for medical care only by way of those taxes?

taxing marijuana would bring in #loads of money so it could damn well do something.

then you have to factor in all the people that would not be getting fired from their jobs cause of randoms or not getting jobs due to pre employment testing. those people get their # on the arm so there would be fewer of them.

even employers have to spend money on that #.

drug testing is not free.

if the company interviews a dude they have to send him to the clinic for a test. passes the pay for 1 test and he id hired. fails they have to interview again and send him for another test.
how many tests per month? per year?
how much does that cost?

take all that cash and spent on pre employment and randoms and divide that up by how many employees and give them a bonus. pay for a wellness visit.

point is something can be done with that money. people are buying weed anyway. they are always have and they always weill.

might as well put the money to good use


i dont understand why people dont get this concept

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

Something tells me taxation without representation was not the idea behind that.

Would you mind telling me why it is you think doctors and other medical people should not be forced to work for free for the general welfare and greater good? Why are they doctors if they don't have any interest in prioritizing "the general welfare" over personal profit?

Why should they be forced to work for free??

My question was more along the lines of this - IF someone wants to try to justify using the power of the government to force people to make personal sacrifices "for the greater good" then why can't they use that same reasoning to force doctors and hospitals and drug companies and medical equipment manufacturers to lower their damn prices out of the stratosphere so that said medical care will not be so expensive in the first place?

IOW, if you believe the government should be allowed to just bludgeon people into compliance in order to achieve it's goals, why force people who are barely making ends meet to pay more in order to protect the profit margins of the fatcats in the medical mafia?

It's kind of funny. Not a day goes by when I don't see at least one socialist on the internet complaining about greedy corporations and their executives and various rich people. But those types of people are exactly the types of people who are at the helm of the medical industry everywhere you look.

So, at the end of the day, the people you claim to be trying to help the most here are people who probably can't even afford a car. ANY car. These are people who are fighting to live and you have this "humanitarian" life-saver driving a Mercedes and parking it in his 4 car garage in his upper middle class house and you would never dare suggest this slimeball should take a pay cut and do his job "for the greater good" instead of for money.

They have educated themselves to make a good living and support themselves

So taxpayers should worry about the greater good but doctors should only care about themselves? What's wong with this picture?

and pay taxes. They also take an oath to save lives so they obviously priorotise

But in the process of saving lives, they don't forget about the bill. And someone WILL always pay that bill. Saving a life is not their priority. Getting paid is their priority.

They are salaried and do not and neither should they work for free!

But taxpayers should give their money away on command.

My grandaughter training to be a paramedic was taught her first duty as a

paramedic was to give aid at ALL times even when not at work.

And how often does this actually happen? How many times have you ever heard of people being saved from cancer (for example) without someone getting a bill?

A socialist who believes that overpaid professional racketeers should drive nice cars and live comfortable middle class lives while their poorest patients fight for life?

Personally not a socialist.....

Then why are you arguing with me? I asked the other guy.

SO. Finally. My question was aimed at people who support this "universal healthcare" nonsense. Just the name of it makes me want to barf. Nice and malleable euphemism there, huh? It reminds me of "enhanced interrogation techniques". It sounds like it means something no one could possibly argue with but it's so vague it's actual implementation could be infinity "tweaked" into a monstrous policy that you could still call "universal healthcare".

The government could round up every homeless person in the country and put them in a cell with a bed a sink and a toilet for the rest of their lives and provide them with full medical care and they could still call it universal healthcare. That is not what I would suggest. What I am saying is that you shouldn't just buy into vague language like this. You should demand that they spell out EXACTLY what they're talking about doing BEFORE you support it. AND if they deviate from what they said they'd do (like how Obama decided to include and individual mandate after he explicitly said he wouldn't do that) then you should protest.

What we have instead is people who support things like Obamacare no matter what kind of hideous Frankenstein it mutates into and will refuse to criticize it even though it is the exact opposite of what was promised. I still have arguments with people every single day about the individual mandate. You can look it up yourself. The man said no mandate and then signed the bill with the mandate in it and sent his lawyers to the Supreme Court to lie about it to keep the mandate in there. You can look it up yourself. I'm sure there are videos on Youtube of him lying about it before and after he was elected. I know the videos are there because I have seen them.

I wonder why anyone wouldn't trust someone who supports "universal healthcare"? What exactly does that term even mean? No one knows. Everyone thinks they do but when you get right down to it, the language is too vague to have any fixed meaning.

Everyone knows what they think universal healthcare WOULD do. No one even wants to talk about what it SHOULDN'T do. Because who cares about that, right?

What do they say? The road to hell being paved with good intentions? That describes this kind of thing perfectly. People will support anything to get what they want. And if it makes them feel good, so much the better.

I just want to know where this idea of paying 60% of our income on taxes comes from. Granted, I've never made much, but the personal income tax brackets in the UK span from 20 - 45% - and you only pay those rates for the segment of wages within that tax band. Here's an example of what a high earner takes home in the UK.

www.netsalarycalculator.co.uk...

Not sure why people think that the majority of income in the UK is siphoned away by the government. Maybe a third for the highest earners, but it's a nowhere near as gloomy as people claim.

Someone on a £80000 salary generally takes home just under 70% of that. How much better is it in the States? I ran the numbers through in uscalculator.info (came to around 72% for the equivalent wage) but I'm dubious as to how reliable it is.

This has been an interesting read catching up, the objections to a system that I and other countries is fascinating. Like I've said, whatever a nation wants to do is up to them but the EU has maybe 150 million more people than the US and we all have health cover funded by taxes.
I'd be asking questions why I did not if I was a US citizen, certainly our tax rates are comparable, we just don't have to find thousands each year for health insurance, get cancer operations with no bill afterwards.

Certainly the EU model, and especially the UK model which I live in is preferable to me.
I can't imagine the fear of going bankrupt because of a major illness, that seems barbaric and inhumane in my humble opinion.

...oh I got my medication just in time, it was wearing off and I was dizzy as # earlier when my mate gave me a lift to the pharmacy lol. I can work Monday now yay, I'd have been a mess by Monday without it, on the floor unable to walk straight.

Cheers again to my mate for driving me around today, top man, most trusted male friend of mine, he's a member of ATS so will read it, he just never posts.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: looneylupinsrevenge

The grasshopper and the ant? Used as a point to justify a socialist system whereby needing everyone else to pay your way is a virtue over each taking personal responsibility for themselves? I'm not sure you thought that analogy out beforehand, friend.

And don't worry about me hopping any borders into Canada.

all depends on how you look at it, you see it your way, I see it as paying into a trust that I can use when I need it, not everyone else but when I need it. Because yes I help pay for everyone else bill, but they also help pay for mine so it balances itself out. Similar to an ant colony and how all the workers must put in the effort for the benefit of the colony as a whole.

originally posted by: poncho1982
Here's a tip, excercise, sweat, and eat healthy. Get that heart rate up! It's the best treatment for Meniere's there is.

Cheers bud, I do all of that, well not so much exercise because I work a physical job most days.
'Can' result in deafness and permanent balance loss sounds better than will, but without my drug I'm like someone drunk trying to stay up and having 'whiteouts' by the minute sometimes...the tinnitus is already louder than my mates TV, I have to ask him what people have said often lol

originally posted by: dbarnhart
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

we actually have universal health care in the usa for a specific group of people. They are called 'veterans'. askl one of them how its working out for them.

We sure do, my husband's a vet and has little good to say about it.

However, he's also convinced it was purposefully structured to fail by design to make socialized healthcare look bad & be held up as an example of being incompatible with American capitalism.

Think about that. And hold some feet to flames once in a while instead of buying the "it sucks" BS.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

My only concerns about the NHS are the serial mismanagement, the waste and most importantly the amoral Tory attempts to privatise the NHS.

I have no desire to to moralise to other countries how their healthcare systems should work, but for the life of me I can't understand the passionate resistance to a universal healthcare system in the USA, supposedly the wealthiest nation in the world.

The network has a video of herbalist Dr. Schulze. if doctors are powerless other than Schulze's methods, you have no options. follow his recommendations. his and Dr. Christopher patients have cured proven incurable diseases with their stories

a reply to: Freeborn
I'm same as you, I'm not saying the US 'should' follow the EU/Canada/Australia/NZ model, but I genuinely don't understand the resistance to it.
My OP is a celebration of tax funded healthcare, not a criticism of countries who make their citizens personally responsible to fund how they are looked after when injury or illness.
I massively support the way the majority of the developed world does it.
It is a benchmark of society to me.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Sadly the reluctance to have universal healthcare is due to ideological reasoning.

The fact that a 'socialised' approach to healthcare saves more lives, provides a better service and minimises cost than a privatised approach is irrelevant.

Its leftist therefore it HAS to be bad.

Still, their country....they are free to do as they see fit.

originally posted by: Freeborn
Still, their country....they are free to do as they see fit.

Agreed, it is their choice alone, the people...can you imagine any referendum in EU, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ asking 'Do you wish to abolish tax funded healthcare?' ...ever having a yes vote lol

a reply to: looneylupinsrevenge
Maybe the overwhelming majority of the developed world populatin is wrong, The Uk, the 500 million strong EU, Canada, Australian, NZ, even Ghana ffs lol, they all think tax funded healthcare is right and proper, maybe as Americans say it is actually evil and wrong to heal people who can't afford treatment?

With the numerous examples of how our government manages anything here state side, I am baffled that people still support complete governmental control of our healthcare.

How have they managed our financial system? How has the purchasing power of USA fiat done over the last 30-40 years? Are we as citizens able to work less and save more? It almost appears each dollar is able to purchase less and less as time progresses.

How about our educational system? How about our national debt? How about getting into wars we don't belong in or killing sovereign citizens of other countries?

So when we are talking about full government run healthcare we are basically talking about the corporations fully running the show. We all know the corporations have the citizens best interest at heart, right? They care nothing about profits, right?

So why are people so adamant about socialized health care for all, especially people that don't even live here? Misery loves company?

Is there something about socialism and the removal of personal responsibility that is so enticing? If you are sitting in hell, the others experiencing freedom are target # 1 and they have to be brought down to your level?

Is it simple loathing or something deeper that concerns the human soul being corrupted when you have to rely on others for your survival?

Is it just naive people that actually think large centralized government is competent and can provide selflessly?

a reply to: looneylupinsrevenge

Except it's not merit based, meaning non workers reap the same benefits as those who actually put in the effort.

Again, the grasshopper and ant analogy misses that point entirely. The grasshoppers suffer in no way for their lack of personal responsibility.

originally posted by: ClovenSky
So why are people so adamant about socialized health care for all, especially people that don't even live here?

I don't know, I imagine why when I see posts similar to mine celebrating it.
The rest of the developed world heals their sick free at the point of need.