BREAKING: Active Shooter Thousand Oaks

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Irishhaf

Fame or infamy...does a delusional soul out to be remembered even care.

I think the 24/7 cycle does play a roll. How big a one, I don't know.

Kind of a moot point now though as there's no putting that genie back in the bottle.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Wayfarer

I was at a gun show down in rural Kentucky 2 years ago and one of the 'sellers' (if you can even call them that as it was just about of townies with guns set out on folding tables), was selling a piece of junk 38 special for $110, and I watched what looked like a 17 year old kid walk up and buy it cash in hand, and walk off with little more than about 3 sentences spoken....

Firstly, looking a certain age is not a requirement... being a certain age is.

Secondly, that's the way a gun transfer goes after the legal paperwork is done. How do you know the guy hadn't already filled out the required paperwork and passed his background check, and was just stopping by to pick up the gun? Do you think people wait patiently at the dealer's table for a few days while their background check is ran?

Thirdly, I don't know of anyone who buys a gun after speaking 3 sentences. I have more questions than that... what condition is it in? How old is it? What caliber? Does it still fire? I want to hold it to feel the balance. I want to consider if this is my best deal available. That apparently all went on before the background stuff, as is the norm. Every time I picked up a gun after the check, all I cared about was "You get the paperwork back?" "Yep. Here you go." Hand over money. "Thanks."

You really should be careful with those guns you own. As scared as you obviously are of them, you are a prime candidate to accidentally shoot yourself or someone close to you.

TheRedneck

Lol, it was the first day of the gun show, he couldn't have completed the paperwork and waiting period already. And I'm not scared of guns (and the guns I do own are locked up in a warehouse in a safe in storage - which ironically makes me certifiably less likely to shoot myself or a loved one than you sir), so much so that I neither feel the need to carry them for self defense, keep them in my home in close reach, or for any other reason. I feel perfectly capable of defending myself without the need to add a gun into the mix, but I can understand if folks like you don't feel physically capable of defending yourself without one.

originally posted by: narrator


Yes, you can use a car to kill someone. BUT, you have to go through months of classes and training in order to use one. Why can't the exact same thing be applied to guns? You'd still have the right (that some of you are so concerned about) to own one, you just have to prove that you're capable of using one. During those months, you should also be subject to background checks, mental health checks, etc. You still have the right to own one, if you can show that you're capable of it.

I'm definitely not anti-gun, or a "gun grabber", or anything like that. I have a safe full of guns. Including the dreaded AR-15. But, I see absolutely no problem with making it harder to qualify to get a gun. That wouldn't violate anybodies rights, and would most likely help the problem we have at hand.
It's the same argument I have for going green for climate change: even if it isn't actually a problem, why is it a bad thing to take relevant precautions? It wouldn't hurt anything, and could potentially help. So, why not?

Here is what we are talking about 1000 people killed from "crazies", so I'm not sure how to improve that very much when mental health is a very grey area unless the person has a history of it.

4000 kids hurt/killed and 2000 unintentional shootings is safety and security, so yes there is an area for improvement. I think much of this is just dumb people doing dumb things, so how do you fix stupid?

a reply to: Wayfarer
I like your attitude, we fight with fists here, only London seems to have the stabby problem.
It's not a generational thing either, my 20 year old son and his mates tell me the same...using a weapon is gay apparently, shameful, run out of town # lol.

a reply to: theantediluvian

True that genie cant get back in the bottle but if we want an honest discussion we need to talk about everything that plays a part, not jus the hot button topics in politics.

a reply to: theantediluvian

That's certainly true enough.

That genie is long gone, and isn't comin' back. Nor, in my more lucid moments--I do have 'em every now and then--do I want it to...

I could wish they were a bit more balanced in their presentations, but that's kinda my job...

a reply to: Irishhaf
Ease of access is the obvious reason.
It is why Brits generally stab each other because a set of knives from Wilko's is in every major town.
Gun bans just wouldn't fix a thing in the US, you'd just start stabbing each other more like in the UK.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: Irishhaf
Ease of access is the obvious reason.
It is why Brits generally stab each other because a set of knives from Wilko's is in every major town.
Gun bans just wouldn't fix a thing in the US, you'd just start stabbing each other more like in the UK.

I may be talking out of my ass here, but I thought stab wounds were less lethal/more survivable on the whole. I mean, if I had a choice between getting shot and stabbed in some random place, I'd pick getting stabbed.....

a reply to: theantediluvian

Maybe it was a t_ 750 seriously maybe not politically related maybe one of these kids grows up to fight subnet.

originally posted by: MteWamp
How could THIS happen?
I thought California had strict gun laws.
You know, cuz it makes people "safe".
Isn't that why we have governments? So they can keep us "safe"?

No way this is real. Has to be fake news.

Pretty shameful response.

a reply to: Wayfarer

Lol, it was the first day of the gun show, he couldn't have completed the paperwork and waiting period already.

So that dealer only started selling guns that day? You know this?

A lot of dealers move from one town to another in small regional areas, following the gun shows, so they let the customer know their schedule when the paperwork is filed so they can find them.

And I'm not scared of guns (and the guns I do own are locked up in a warehouse in a safe in storage - which ironically makes me certifiably less likely to shoot myself or a loved one than you sir), so much so that I neither feel the need to carry them for self defense, keep them in my home in close reach, or for any other reason.

And my name is Mother Teresa.

Every post you have made is dripping, literally dripping with fear of the gun. You own two (gifted) and enjoy them, but they have to stay locked up so they don't get out and run amok firing bullets at people. Please. At least be honest about it. You're trying to convince yourself, not me.

Keep those guns locked away, please. I don't want to hear how you hurt yourself or someone close to you. But you will leave mine alone. If you were right here wanting to shoot them for fun I wouldn't let you. You have too much fear of them.

Oh, and incidentally, my chainsaw is many, MANY times more dangerous for me to use than my guns. I don't keep it locked away and take it out once a month to crank it to hear it run. You might want to think about that.

I feel perfectly capable of defending myself without the need to add a gun into the mix, but I can understand if folks like you don't feel physically capable of defending yourself without one.

Ah, yes, the arrogance claim. Keep telling yourself that.

And hope you are never in a compromised situation. Of course, I'm sure you're too perfect for that to happen.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Wayfarer
Star for the obvious agreement from me!
I can grab a cafe chair or whatever if some crazy person starts running around with a knife in town, gun not so much.
It's just a cultural difference here, illegal guns are available but strictly vetted by the criminals who rent and sell them, crazy folk and Muslims don't get a look in lol.
Being stabbed is way better than being shot for sure so I like how society works here, It's only really London where they are stabby, broken jaw is the worst you can expect in my corner of England, thank #.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Wayfarer

Lol, it was the first day of the gun show, he couldn't have completed the paperwork and waiting period already.

So that dealer only started selling guns that day? You know this?

A lot of dealers move from one town to another in small regional areas, following the gun shows, so they let the customer know their schedule when the paperwork is filed so they can find them.

And I'm not scared of guns (and the guns I do own are locked up in a warehouse in a safe in storage - which ironically makes me certifiably less likely to shoot myself or a loved one than you sir), so much so that I neither feel the need to carry them for self defense, keep them in my home in close reach, or for any other reason.

And my name is Mother Teresa.

Every post you have made is dripping, literally dripping with fear of the gun. You own two (gifted) and enjoy them, but they have to stay locked up so they don't get out and run amok firing bullets at people. Please. At least be honest about it. You're trying to convince yourself, not me.

Keep those guns locked away, please. I don't want to hear how you hurt yourself or someone close to you. But you will leave mine alone. If you were right here wanting to shoot them for fun I wouldn't let you. You have too much fear of them.

Oh, and incidentally, my chainsaw is many, MANY times more dangerous for me to use than my guns. I don't keep it locked away and take it out once a month to crank it to hear it run. You might want to think about that.

I feel perfectly capable of defending myself without the need to add a gun into the mix, but I can understand if folks like you don't feel physically capable of defending yourself without one.

Ah, yes, the arrogance claim. Keep telling yourself that.

And hope you are never in a compromised situation. Of course, I'm sure you're too perfect for that to happen.

TheRedneck

You just wrote a lot of words to assuage your own projection I think.

Furthermore, its not arrogance. I don't make the claim I can protect myself adequately in a vacuum. I teach martial arts and self defense classes, and run weekly blade sparring groups, so my hobby is getting to test myself out in a variety of situations, and while going up against someone with a gun is certainly scary, its a rather simple situation; if the gunman wants to shoot you and they get the drop on you at a distance, you are dead, end of story. If they have a gun trained on you and they're close or give you an opportunity to get your own hand on the gun you have a chance, and after spending the last 10+ years wrestling/sparring with folks in class who have a (fake practice) gun or knife, I can tell you I'd much rather struggle with some big strong dude trying to disarm the gun than the knife.

Anyone find it strange that some people at this bar were at the mass shooting in Vegas and there was a Route 91 flag out front ?

Some people who survived the Borderline Bar & Grill shooting that left 13 dead, including the gunman, also escaped the mass shooting at the Route 91 music festival in Las Vegas last year, according to the Los Angeles Times and New York Times. "A lot of people in the Route 91 situation go here," Chandler Gunn, 23, told the LA Times. "There’s people that live a whole lifetime without seeing this, and then there’s people that have seen it twice." Carl Edgar, 24, said he had friends survive the Vegas attack at a country music festival shooting that left 58 dead in October 2017 as well as this one in the country-western themed bar in Thousand Oaks, Calif. "If they survived that, they’ll survive this," Edgar told the Times.

a reply to: Gargoyle91

There are a lot of odd coincidences when it comes to this. One was with a woman who survived a mall shooting in Canada, but was killed by the Colorado theater shooter.

It's not far off to say Country fans traveled under 300 miles attend a music venue/or fest.

originally posted by: tonycodes
I am sorry I don’t have time to look this up, but I am very curious, do countries with low rates of mass shootings also force the mentally unstable to be committed against their will?

Not here(Canada) for the most part they are left to flounder in the streets, left to their own devices.
Sure they might see a doctor occasionally, take these pills kinda deal, which they often don't.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I agree there. If their mindset is to kill they will pick up thew next available tool. If not a knife or gun, a car. My state just passed a California-like(etc, most strict) gun law set in the US. There was just a really concerning killing in public that happened, the killer used a knife on his wife. The law for confiscating a gun from a person who poses a threat to themselves or others.

a reply to: Wayfarer

Whatever you need to convince yourself of.

The martial arts training is impressive; I'll grant that with no problems. I enrolled both my kids in martial arts training when they were young, and it helped them tremendously growing up. However, I wonder how well that training would work with, oh, I don't know, a rabid coon? I wonder how well it would do against an angry black bear? How about a pack of coyotes? Or the ultimate challenge around these parts (and I understand, soon to be in your parts), a pack of wild boar?

Only a fool puts all his eggs in one basket, sir. I don't grab a gun at every sound, but I also understand there are things here (and that includes people) who can harm me. I do not plan on being harmed. Another poster just mentioned the worst he expects to get is a broken jaw... with all due respect to his life choices, I do not intend to get one of those. Neither would I be content with being stabbed, and I certainly have no intention of allowing someone to shoot me.

I have no interest in trying to convince you to change your attitude; that would be folly. I only demand that you not decree that I must follow in your footsteps over your personal fears. My self protection and the protection of my family is my primary responsibility, and I will not give that up. I conquered my fears many years ago.

TheRedneck

a reply to: theantediluvian

My sincere condolences to the loved ones of this tragedy,so sad to hear,very very heartbreaking

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I think much of this is just dumb people doing dumb things, so how do you fix stupid?

Genetic manipulation, I suppose. But this was just the sort of thing Stephen Hawking warned about.