Japan to Send Troops to Iraq?

Supposedly this is going to come about. Even though this measure is illegal under their constitution, Japan is considering sending troops into Iraq for humanitarian purposes. Up to 1000 is the number being thrown around. Why???

You got me.

It would seem that this type of action would not be necassary or even desirable for Japan. Yet that doesn't seem to matter. I guess this is just politics once again. You scratch my back I'll scratch your's. Anyway here is the link, let me know what you think:

news.bbc.co.uk...

So what do you think?

I think that this is a bunch of BS.

This measure would allow the troops to be used for humanitarian purposes. It would also force these troops into areas that don't see conflict. Yet that may be hard to come by considering that Iraq has and always will be a warzone of waring tribes, parties and factions. I think that in time this will fail and they will pull back. I couldn't see it lasting long and it may not ever happen. If it does happen and they do go into Iraq then they can expect to be shot at just like our troops are. Iraq wants to be free from occupiers and it will do so in any means. The so-called Saddam 'loyalists' will not give up the country without a fight. This I know. They hate occupation and will see to it that any occupier is oppressed by them, cause they believe in a hand for a hand. They believe that any occupier is an oppressor, therefore any occupier will be oppressed.

I find it quite silly that the Japanese think that they can avoid this death trap. Everyone knows what this is. Everyone knows that this place is no going to be free from violence against it's liberators. I couldn't see how any Japanese person would want to be apart of this measure. For it is well known that in America everyone just wants their men and women back. Why else would it be any different in Japan. So I don't expect it to last. I would think that the political pressure would be too strong in Japan for this measure to last. As the political pressure in America will soon show us. I think Cold Anger was right. Iraq is turning into another Vietnam.

What do you think?

[Edited on 6-7-2003 by Abraham Virtue]

The big gamble over Iraq

The Asahi Shimbun



Last month there was a lot of self-congratulation and grinning as the ruling coalition and Minshuto worked together to see a military emergency package through the Diet. Today, the smiles are gone, wiped away by a contentious decision to send the Self-Defense Forces to Iraq and very possibly into harm's way.

If things go badly-the normal state of affairs in present-day Iraq-and SDF troops die, Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's career could nosedive.

Minshuto (Democratic Party of Japan) submitted revisions to the government bill on Wednesday but the two sides are so far apart, any last-minute deal is about as likely as a Scud missile hitting its target.

Minshuto's vision for rebuilding Iraq contains a lot of things, but it does not contain the SDF, the heart and soul of the government bill. Minshuto wants to send civilians instead.

For the prime minister and coalition hawks, Minshuto's utility is at an end. Never needed numerically, the opposition party's support would have provided a fig leaf for a decision that has the potential to backfire.

But having walked this far out on the plank, the ruling camp is determined to pass the Iraq bill through the Lower House, unsullied by the main opposition party's diffidence, by the end of the week. The coalition intends to approve another piece of legislation-a bill extending the existing anti-terrorism special measures law-at the same time.

The prime minister full well knows the dangers, for the troops, and on a less permanent level, for himself. But helping to motivate Koizumi is a promise to the United States, in the person of President George W. Bush, to deploy the SDF to the crippled Mideast nation.

Unconstrained by promises, Minshuto members from the old Japan Socialist Party demanded Tuesday the entire bill be scrapped and the party gird for battle, hammer and tong.

Cooler, more pragmatic, heads prevailed at the leadership meeting.

One of these, Seiji Maehara, Minshuto's top diplomatic and security expert, said: ``If we were to just flat-out oppose the bill, Minshuto could be perceived as being against aid to Iraq. It's smarter to submit revision proposals.''

Clearly, the leadership wants to convince the public that Minshuto is not the old fire-breathing JSP, once known mainly for its uncanny ability to oppose everything.

After a number of options were considered, the party decided on the plan that would send only civilians to Iraq.

Minshuto President Naoto Kan said he is ready for a confrontation with the ruling camp, a fight that could come later in the month as the bill wends it way through the Diet.

If Kan refuses to back down from the ruling parties, the all-out battle could result in the dissolution of the Lower House and a snap election.

Although Koizumi denied it Tuesday, LDP Secretary-General Taku Yamasaki said the prime minister is prepared to dissolve the Diet if that's what it takes to pass the two bills.

Not everyone is behind Koizumi, even in his own party.

One senior member of the faction led by Ryutaro Hashimoto said Tuesday that Koizumi and Yamasaki could have underestimated the difficulty getting the Iraq bill passed.

Some LDP members, skeptical from the beginning, cite the government's failure to lift restrictions on SDF weapons use as a major source of concern.

Worried the inexperienced SDF may be walking into a trap, an LDP member said, ``If Koizumi wants to pass the bill this session, he will be held responsible for whatever happens.''(IHT/Asahi: July 3,2003)(IHT/Asahi: July 3,2003)

(07/03)

www.asahi.com...

Well according to the article supplied by SpottyDog the new measure is to send over civilians instead of troops. That doesn't seem right. That would mean that these civilians would have to be volunteers. How many people would actually want to volunteer to go to Iraq from Japan???

Maybe I am not giving them much credit but I wouldn't expect anyone from America to do so. So why Japanese??? Maybe they know of some groups that are ready to be of help. Nonetheless I still think that this should be handled by troops if they are going to do this in the manner spoken of before. I doubt that these civilians are trained to handle the enviroment there in Iraq. Not only is the place dangerous and full of smuggling crooks and murderers, but the land is harsh and hard to get around on. Most Japanese people have never been in heated areas like Iraq. They may know how to manage through mountains, but what about deserts???

Anyone who has ever been to the desert can tell you that it is no picnic. It is a different world in that type of climate and it takes a cetain type of personal drive to prosper there. Not to mention in Iraq the desert is home to many henchmen and people of shady interests. People who rape, rob, steal, and kill. They are experts at it and have been doing it for years. Reports come in like wild from freed defectors about the abuses of the desert tribesmen of the Northern parts of Iraq. In fact the whole Middle East knows this shady tradition quite well and not all are equiped to handle it. Especially those that have never had the experience in these matters and EVEN MORE especially those that are foreign to the land. I very seriously doubt that any Japanese person is experienced in these matters, especially civilians and I know for a fact that all of the Japs would be spotted in a flash by those that are looking for people to victimize. For it is no mystery that in Iraq people can tell what city you are from depending on your accent. It is also no mystery that when you come from Japan that your accent won't even be close to that which one would hear in Iraq. Not to mention those Japanese just scream foreigners. Let me not forget to tell you that foreigners are VERY SERIOUSLY hated by almost all Iraqis.

This is not a good idea. I think that the politicans in Iraq need to wake up and smell the coffee. The soldiers being sent was a bad idea in the first place. Let us not be really dumb and think that the average Japanese would be no different, if not EVEN MORE stupid.

Can I get some opinions on this???

[Edited on 6-7-2003 by Abraham Virtue]

Thank you Abraham for your comments, your argument about the jap's surviving the weather is quite interesting. Having spent some time in Japan myself I will throw in my thoughts.

Japan itself is now very worried about its sovereignty, mainly through North Korea which has been fighting a clandestined war against Japan for many years. Most recently with the appearance of atomic power in North Korea and their threats against the US if the interfere. I remember N. Korea testing an ICBM (without warhead) by flying it over near Japan about 6 months ago into the Pacific.

America is Japan�s only real ally, with America (more or less) still controlling Japan since WWII, most recently America has been pressurising Japan to end its neutrality pact, and get on board with the American war on terrorism. Japan in its trade off is hoping that by allying with American wishes, they will be protected from North Korea, and of course America will help to strengthen an ailing Japanese economy.

This argument between Japanese internal politics on sending troops to Iraq on a peace keeping mission (or civilian volunteers), is a cause to insight re-election.

Japan�s prime minister Koizumi is heading for a show down with the Democrats which is now looking like an election in mid October.

www.asahi.com...

Koizumi cannot back down as I believe he has already promised his support to America, he also believes that this situation would benefit him if he is forced to a new election process by playing the war on terror card to harden his own position and a second term in office.

Koizumi will also use his overwhelming majority in his coalition to force the bill through, this will mean Japanese SDF forces will go to Iraq, and Japan will harden its current laws on anti terrorism.

www.asahi.com...

I have no doubt that Japanese SDF forces will be shot at by locals in Iraq when they deploy, I also expect them to get sucked in to the policing role, rather than the non combat role currently expressed by Japanese officials. I do believe the average Jap soldier can cope with the weather, central Japan is extremely hot in summer much more so than the UK (and our own troops are surviving the weather there!).

I predict weather based problems will be the extreme cold in night time winter conditions, as I don�t expect Japanese forces there before September. Lastly sand will be a problem, as Japanese equipment has not had to suffer sand in there machinery much before.

There is some support in Iraq for foreigner powers to rebuild the country, most Iraq power based factions are only interested in personal greed & power, by insighting rebellion against our forces there, but all wish for foreign money to provide aid and new infrastructure. I predict a long and bloody stalemate in Iraq.

I don't feel as if this is a laughing matter. Yet you do, and you have every right to feel that way. Anyway that is not my upcoming point. What I want to point out is this:

The world is playing a stupid and dangerous game here. Instead of, the infamous I scratch your back you scratch mine gimick of politics. We are now seeing the ever so deadly, you jump on my bandwagon, I will just one your's.

What we are seeing here is irrational polices being motivated by none other than influence and ruled by irresponsibility. The Japanese should take measures against terrorism but I see no need to make up laws in their homeland in doing so. This is just another form of political takeover by the World Wide Fascists. You don't fight terrorism by fighting on the homeland with laws that limit the freedoms of your citizens. You fight it by attacking the freedom takers abroad and maybe even within. There is no need to limit freedom in any way. That is exactly what the terrorists want.

So the Japs have made two sacrifices while the Americans have made just one. The American government has decided to help keep North Korea in line and away from Japan and other nations in the area. Yet this is nothing new. So really it isn't much of a sacrifice at all. However the Japs have taken at least one sacrifice by sending in peacekeepers to Iraq, whether they be troops or citizens. I think that in time the Japs will pull out of Iraq because of the dangerous situation that will likely come their way.

If this is done how do you think it will affect Japanese-American relations???

Would the US be so stupid to complain and moan about the lack of Japanese integrity??? Or would they just let it pass and move on to the next potential possibility???

What is your take on this SpottyDog???

Well surprise, surprise the bill is to be passed Japanese SDF will be sent to Iraq, but the government of Japan isn�t sure what they will do there? And if the government isn�t sure you can bet that the people of Japan are even more confused and divided!

America�s view of you are either with us or against us, is in my opinion far to black & white, and could do plenty of damage to overseas relations if other countries are unwilling (mainly due to their public�s opinion) to commit.

Previously we have seen America trying to buy foreign government agreements (as in the case of Turkey), to get what they want, and to hell with local opinion.

America has a great deal to learn in foreign policy, their attitude of being the �world�s only super power, so we can do anything�, is I think heading for a fall.

Far too many fingers have been trampled on in relation to the last Gulf War, and American war aims of returning the country to the Iraqis were not seriously considered prior to hostilities. Now they are in a fix, and the best way out is to share the blame with as many other countries as are prepared to benefit from additional US$.

Longer term if the situation in Iraq is not sorted out, with a legitimate local and agreed government in place then countries such as Japan could well see public opinion diminished, as in the case of the Vietnam War for the Americans. We already saw massed peace demonstrations on the streets of Tokyo when Gulf war hostilities started, due to Japanese government support for the conflict, I expect this to continue and grow.

The Japanese once in (like the British in Ireland) will find it hard to get out. The only way out being a change of government, or if peace breaks out! Both options seem unlikely at present.

I expect the Americans to move on to yet more conflicts, digging themselves, and the others that follow them deeper into their own graves!

By the way my previous �smiley� character just looked to me like Japanese male; sorry you didn�t get the joke!



Iraq bill, riddled with holes, passes

The Asahi Shimbun



The Lower House on Friday passed a special measures bill to dispatch Self-Defense Forces for Iraqi reconstruction, even though a few questions remain unanswered about the troops' mission: what, where, why and how?

Although the bill is virtually guaranteed passage into law before the end of the current Diet session, answers concerning the SDF's role will likely not come until after the session closes.

There is even the question of whether the ruling Liberal Democratic Party is united on the bill.

Hiromu Nonaka and Makoto Koga, former LDP secretaries-general, and Mamoru Nishida left the chamber before the vote in protest. They wanted a roll call vote rather than a simple standing of those in favor of the bill.

A fourth LDP member, Yamato Inaba, did not stand to support the bill.

But government officials have moved a step toward ramming the bill through the Diet without substantial debate.

No detailed discussions have been held in the Diet about what role the SDF will play and where they would be sent.

The government has also shunned a review on how much freedom the SDF troops will have concerning weapons use.

In fact, government officials said the basic plan and specific measures for the SDF dispatch would be drawn up well after the bill passes the Diet and a more comprehensive fact-finding mission returns from Iraq.

One area in which the government has been especially vague is where the SDF troops would be sent. Officials have only said a ``non-combat region'' would be selected. Continued attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq show that defining regions ``safe'' from attack may be a difficult task.

U.S. troops have also intensified efforts to root out traces of Saddam Hussein's loyalists. Defense Agency Director-General Shigeru Ishiba said U.S. military officers would not divulge strategic information with their Japanese counterparts, meaning SDF officers would have no idea when U.S. troops are targeting the ``safe areas'' where Japanese personnel have been assigned.

Opposition parties pressed members of an initial fact-finding mission to Iraq about the dangers that SDF troops would face.

Seiken Sugiura, who headed the mission, said: ``Combat has been concluded. What remains is a question of law and order.''

Government officials may also face questions about the justification for the war in Iraq in the first place.

With no discovery of any weapons of mass destruction, opposition lawmakers are expected to criticize the government for simply following in the footsteps of an increasingly unilateralist United States.(IHT/Asahi: July 6,2003)

www.asahi.com...