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WA I-1639 Passes...wtf

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posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 01:12 PM
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So what happens if someone cuts the gun lock off and then uses the gun without your consent and an accident happens?




posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6

2. It criminalizes victims. If I get robbed it doesnt matter whether my weapon is in a safe or not...safes are often the targets. If my firearm is then used in a murder or other criminal activity, I COULD BE CHARGED. Wtf?


Did you even read the text of the initiative? I only ask because the weapon being in a safe and the weapon being obtained during an unlawful entry are both defenses to the charge. It's literally right there in the text.


(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply if: 11 (a) The firearm was in secure gun storage, or secured with a trigger lock or similar device that is designed to prevent the unauthorized use or discharge of the firearm; (b) In the case of a person who is a prohibited person on the basis of the person's age, access to the firearm is with the lawful permission of the prohibited person's parent or guardian and supervised by an adult, or is in accordance with RCW 9.41.042; (c) The prohibited person obtains, or obtains and discharges, the firearm in a lawful act of self-defense; or (d) The prohibited person's access to the firearm was obtained as a result of an unlawful entry, provided that the unauthorized access or theft of the firearm is reported to a local law enforcement agency in the jurisdiction in which the unauthorized access or theft occurred within five days of the time the victim of the unlawful entry knew or reasonably should have known that the firearm had been taken.


The only possible way you could be charged is if your residence is broken in to AND you left your piece out in the open AND you didn't report it for at least five days. And, no offense, but if you leave your firearm out in the open and have a break-in and your firearm is taken and you don't bother reporting it, or don't even notice to begin with, I have absolutely zero problem with you catching a charge for that.

My biggest issue with the initiative is the requirement for training simply to purchase a firearm, with no mention made of a DD-214 being sufficient to satisfy that requirement. The requirement itself is stupid, but on it's face it appears that an infantryman can spend four years handling weapons constantly and still need to take an "approved class" to satisfy the requirement.



Oh so it WAS all just BS. My sensor is working like clock work. BS sighted, BS pegged. Carry on with your whiny rhetoric everyone.

Prosecute teh vitctams lol.



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

Yes I read it.

Let me break this down real life style....true story:

I went on vacation to Australia in 2010. I was gone for almost 4 weeks. Sometime during those 4 weeks, I WAS ROBBED. They stole my TV and other electronics. Had they stolen my safe, which they attempted to break into, they would have had access to several weapons. If they then used those weapons criminally, I would have had no say in the matter. There would have been no report and no justice.

Thank God they didnt get into my safe and thank God that was a time when i1639 didn't exist...

How do you suppose i prevent something like this from happening? Am I supposed to take my firearms on vacation with me? Am I supposed to just NOT go on vacation? Do I need to hire a house sitter every time I want to leave the house?

A2D



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 01:16 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero
So what happens if someone cuts the gun lock off and then uses the gun without your consent and an accident happens?


Lol, keep contorting, you can get your head farther up there.

That's some serious mental gymnastics your practicing.



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: Shamrock6

Yes I read it.

Let me break this down real life style....true story:

I went on vacation to Australia in 2010. I was gone for almost 4 weeks. Sometime during those 4 weeks, I WAS ROBBED. They stole my TV and other electronics. Had they stolen my safe, which they attempted to break into, they would have had access to several weapons. If they then used those weapons criminally, I would have had no say in the matter. There would have been no report and no justice.

Thank God they didnt get into my safe and thank God that was a time when i1639 didn't exist...

How do you suppose i prevent something like this from happening? Am I supposed to take my firearms on vacation with me? Am I supposed to just NOT go on vacation? Do I need to hire a house sitter every time I want to leave the house?

A2D


Lol, so you are trying to get your head up there too?



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Agree2Disagree

When your only knowledge of a subject comes from soundbites...from some ill informed guy.


You are pushing the "blame the victim" narrative and you are accusing someone of only getting there info from soundbites? Pot meet kettle. You'll believe anything that Alex tells you wont you. SMH



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: Agree2Disagree


Yes I read it.


Given what's written in your OP, I strongly doubt that. Otherwise you wouldn't have said "it doesn't matter if my weapon is in a safe or not" when that's quite literally a specific defense against any charge.


Let me break this down real life style....true story:


Yes, please, give me an anecdotal story. In response to your anecdote, I found this:


Ellingboe, with the Yes On 1639, said being on vacation and missing the five-day deadline would be a valid defense if a person's firearm is stolen from a secure location.


Ellingboe interview
edit on 7-11-2018 by Shamrock6 because: forgot article



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 01:53 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

I see you just quoted ellingboe....great answer.

Please cite from the legislation where it says being unable to report via the 5 day deadline is an acceptable defense.

Hint: in all 30 pages...it's not there.



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 01:54 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
Oooo, this is awkward.

That's your hammer I borrowed last year.


I actually stole it from TAT, so I guess he's on the hook for both of us.



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 01:54 PM
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originally posted by: seagull
Or his car?


Hah! DB doesn't have a car. But I think I can still do some damage with his mobility scooter.



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: Agree2Disagree

Thank you for your service A2D



I could quite possibly be denied my right because of PTSD.


Hopefully I am not the only conservative willing to fight like hell to see that doesn't happen. A right denied to one is a right denied to all.

There is no evidence PTSD makes an individual violent. Furthermore, restricting a person's god-given rights because of a condition sustained while serving this country is antithetical to American values

EDIT: as a side note, I think locking up weapons you are not actively using or carrying is good sense. Those weapons can be used against you by someone else or picked up by a kid or something (for those who have little ones in the home). My ccw is usually on my body somewhere or locked in a bed side lock box if I am not carrying it. The rest are in the gun safe which is itself locked in another room (just upgraded to Protec2 locks, Abloy very nice.. for the "security snobs" among us)
edit on 11/7/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: Agree2Disagree

Correct, it's not there. I know this because unlike you, I actually read it before posting about it.

Your anecdotal story was responded to with an actual quote, though.

You're barking up the wrong tree, it seems. I think it's an asinine initiative. I just think it's asinine for reasons actually contained within the initiative, rather than the made-up ones you presented in your OP.



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

Yes. I completely made up stuff about an initiative I never read...

Wow. You nailed me. (That's sarcasm.)

/ˈsärˌkazəm/
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

A2D



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: whargoul

Since the next time I listen to "Alex" will be the first time, your commentary isn't worth a whole lot.

What was it you were saying about pots and kettles, again??



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: Agree2Disagree


Yes. I completely made up stuff about an initiative I never read


Again, given what you wrote in the OP, that's pretty clear. I'm glad you're a big enough person to admit it though.

"Sarcasm is the last refuge of those with no real argument." - Dostoyevsky




posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 03:24 PM
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originally posted by: whargoul


That's some serious mental gymnastics your practicing.


Your 12 year old kid cuts off the lock with bolt cutters and shoots his friend by accident, are you a Class C felon for being the gun owner?

Just asking...



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 03:29 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Agree2Disagree


Yes. I completely made up stuff about an initiative I never read


Again, given what you wrote in the OP, that's pretty clear. I'm glad you're a big enough person to admit it though.

"Sarcasm is the last refuge of those with no real argument." - Dostoyevsky



"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking." - Dorothy Sayers

A2D



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 06:09 PM
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originally posted by: Agree2Disagree

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Agree2Disagree


Yes. I completely made up stuff about an initiative I never read


Again, given what you wrote in the OP, that's pretty clear. I'm glad you're a big enough person to admit it though.

"Sarcasm is the last refuge of those with no real argument." - Dostoyevsky



"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking." - Dorothy Sayers

A2D


Coming from the guy who had to resort to providing definitions for common words because he had no point to make, that's cool and all. Particularly in light of one of us (me, not you) providing the actual text of initiative, and then one of us (me, not you) providing quotes to support our position, and one of us (me, not you) linking to an anti-I1639 group showing that while part of what you said is accurate, the other part isn't and they make no mention of what you suggested. And honestly, does using a quote about using quotes really do anything other than look infantile?

Look. I'm real sorry you're butthurt that I pointed out part of your OP was inaccurate. As I've said, more than once, I think it's an asinine initiative. I hope it gets challenged and struck down. I just hope it gets challenged for the actual problems the bill has, some of which you mention, rather than being challenged on non-existent issues, which you also mention.

Semper Fi and all that.



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: soundguy
It’s about time for the gun fetish crowd learned they are mentally challenged minority. Speaking of, it looks like many, many of the nra (Russian front) candidates got creamed! a reply to: Agree2Disagree



I only thought folks with this caliber of mental acuity existed in myth and legend.

I am impressed.



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

You only took issue with the "regardless of it being in a safe" statement, which is a contextual issue.

Yes, having a firearm locked in a safe is compliance within the law and I wouldn't be held accountable. However, when I stated "regardless of it being in a safe" I actually followed up by saying BECAUSE SAFES ARE TARGETS (OF THEFTS.)

Yes I'm within the law and not responsible if it's in a safe...but how do you prove it was in a safe if your safe is stolen? Or if someone living in the house unlocks the safe takes the weapon out and closes the safe?

I think safe storage is smart. I have a safe and I use it. I know plenty of families who have safes for their firearms as well, but if at some point one of their children decided to take a rifle out of it and lock the safe again...I'm not sure how soon they would actually know. Or if they would ever be able to prove that they did in fact have their weapons stored properly.

That's my point.

Regardless of the misunderstanding, I'm glad we both agree the initiative is absolute trash.

A2D
edit on 7-11-2018 by Agree2Disagree because: (no reason given)




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