What Will It Take to Bust the Paradigm

originally posted by: TheBandit795
a reply to: Grambler

Heels in wrestling still get their checks from Vince McMahon.

Ok then who do we vote for, Green Party, libertarians?

I will just say they are heels as well

Whoever you suggest, no matter how the establishment goes after them or even launches fisa warrants to spy on their campaign, I will just say they are part of the establishment plan and are merely heals

So where does that leave us?

I guess don’t vote at all and accept our fate

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

When it hits too close to home...

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: TheBandit795


I like your WWE analogy, because that's what the whole Republican/Democrat show is, staged theatrics that people think are real and even when they find out it isn't they keep cheering for their performer.

Yes and all of the people calling out these performers are then watching wcw, which is still owned by Vince McMahon

But hey, they feel good about themselves because they are sooooo much better than the wwe fans!

The truth is many of us who vote for these parties understand the vast majority are terrible

And many do prefer third party

But what should I do if almost every single office I was able to vote for didn’t have third party options?

Not vote at all?

That will show them!

a reply to: Grambler

That is the conundrum isn't it.

Vote 3rd party knowing you're throwing away your vote or vote for the lesser of evils.

When we can accept that it's the entire process that is broken, maybe then can we start making positive steps.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Grambler

That is the conundrum isn't it.

Vote 3rd party knowing you're throwing away your vote or vote for the lesser of evils.

When we can accept that it's the entire process that is broken, maybe then can we start making positive steps.

It’s not just that third parties are throwing your vote away

It’s that they suck too

Gary Johnson and former republican weld? Jill stien?

These people suck!

I can stomach voting third party for a clearly anti establishment candidate like Perot

But when I vote for someone who seems like the establishment hates like Paul or trump, I am told I am a moron because they have an r next to their name (or tulsi gabbard who has a d next to hers)

So I ask these people, what is their solution?

And I get crickets

Yes the process is broken

I don’t know how to fix it

My gut tells me to vote for people that will rock the comfortable establishment like trump or even Bernie (though not the bern so much anymore)

But I am just told this is dumb and I am a fool for doing that (I am not saying you are doing this)

And I don’t think the people telling me this are bad and I conceded they may be correct

So again, I am open to suggestions, but haven’t heard many other than “don’t vote “

a reply to: Grambler

So again, I am open to suggestions, but haven’t heard many other than “don’t vote “

I also do not know what not voting will do to aid the situation.

a reply to: Grambler


You keep telling yourself you're doing the right thing and I will do what I think is the right thing so I can sleep at night.

Reminds me of a stupid adage my father used to say and that now makes complete sense, 'If everyone wanted to jump off a bridge would you do it too?'.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Grambler

So again, I am open to suggestions, but haven’t heard many other than “don’t vote “

I also do not know what not voting will do to aid the situation.

The best solution I can come up with is informing people of the establishment elites on both parties basically being the same, trying to vote for people the establishment doesn’t like like trump (even if that fails), and running for office myself which I am going to do

All of that seems to offer more hope than the ultra nihilistic stance of saying the establishment controls everything so doing anything is irrelevant

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Grambler


You keep telling yourself you're doing the right thing and I will do what I think is the right thing so I can sleep at night.

Reminds me of a stupid adage my father used to say and that now makes complete sense, 'If everyone wanted to jump off a bridge would you do it too?'.

Well of course we all do what we think is right

My point is I am open to suggestions

So a group of people that I largely agree with tells me voting for anyone seemingly is just backing the establishment

Not saying you are in that camp, but still, what do you suggest we do?

It’s easy to scoff at peoples attempts to change things for the better, but what is the viable alternative?

a reply to: Grambler

You're going to need a bigger beard and a bigger wallet.

Essentially you'll have to find ways to get your face out there on someone else's dime (kind of how Trump did).

The Establishment is in severe need of Stability, of which the left has failed to provide.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Grambler

You're going to need a bigger beard and a bigger wallet.

Essentially you'll have to find ways to get your face out there on someone else's dime (kind of how Trump did).

Problem is I don’t want people’s money

When I tried two years ago to run as a libertarian one of my platforms was an outright refusal to accept money from anyone

That got me nowhere

Once I get money from people, what if I am a failure?

How am I not like just every other politician that end up beholden to the people that paid for them?

It’s tough. Running as a libertarian not being independently wealthy was almost impossible

The amount of paperwork alone I had to file was almost not doable seeing as how I work over 60 hours a week

So I will try to run as Republican. But then I will be labeled establishment

Definitely a conundrum

Oh and sadly my wife is going to make me trim my beard, so that’s out!

a reply to: Grambler

No money AND no beard?

You're done before you even start son.

Even the disgraceful Gary Johnson is a millionaire and the airtime he got he "Aleppo'ed away."

Point being, in this climate one doesn't need to be right or even civil. Just louder and more cliche. FFS our new governor won on the slogan to "fix the damn roads."

There is only one way that will ever happen in this state and that is will lots of cash and crews from out of state added in. Essentially, Michigan voted for a tax increase with little oversight. Yay politics!

a reply to: JinMI

Yes the system is an absolute mess

A few things though

1. Regardless of that, the truth his who is elected doesn’t negatively impact my life much at all

I love life and don’t let politics make me fight with friends or family or get me depressed.

I enjoy even discussions where i disagree with people

2. I think that although we are still a long ways away from making significant dents in the establishment things are looking up to me

With the advent of the internet, information is flowing more freely with less hate keepers

Yes, the twitters and facebooks of the word are desperately trying to control the info for the establishment, but I think they will lose

And the more info that the average person is getting, the better chance that eventually the monopoly on power the establishment has will be chipped away at

a reply to: Grambler

Well, I'm happy that you're optimistic.

I don't quite see it that way. Points of failure = Google, FB, Twitter, YT. This is where most information is posted and obtained.

Sites like ours here are dwindling which, IMO, further reduces chances of the free exchange of ideas that breeds actual, legitimate progress.

Outside of folks here and maybe places like Reddit, where else is it happening?

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Grambler

Well, I'm happy that you're optimistic.

I don't quite see it that way. Points of failure = Google, FB, Twitter, YT. This is where most information is posted and obtained.

Sites like ours here are dwindling which, IMO, further reduces chances of the free exchange of ideas that breeds actual, legitimate progress.

Outside of folks here and maybe places like Reddit, where else is it happening?

These gatekeepers though are being outed

Eventually they will lose their monopoly on social media

I look at it this way

Despite these groups censorship and backing of the establishment I can now get my voice out there and have hundreds of people hear it

And so can millions of other people just like me

And yes, if we get big enough, or say the wrong thing, these groups can deplatform us

But still, this is an improvement over a decade ago when the gatekeepers had it far easier by just having to control the msm

originally posted by: Grambler
So a group of people that I largely agree with tells me voting for anyone seemingly is just backing the establishment

Voting for the two major parties is voting for the establishment since they are mostly funded by the same people, are solicited by the same lobbyists and do not have their constituent's best interests at the fore.

If everyone held their feet to the fire at town halls and repeatedly asked them if they were for the banning of lobbying, legal insider trading and enriching themselves while in office that would be a start.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Grambler
So a group of people that I largely agree with tells me voting for anyone seemingly is just backing the establishment

Voting for the two major parties is voting for the establishment since they are mostly funded by the same people, are solicited by the same lobbyists and do not have their constituent's best interests at the fore.

If everyone held their feet to the fire at town halls and repeatedly asked them if they were for the banning of lobbying, legal insider trading and enriching themselves while in office that would be a start.

Well I am in favor of all of that

But should we not vote until the corruption is ended?

That seems to be ineffective

I could be wrong, but I thought I saw you give praise to tulsi gabbard, a Democrat who I really like

Wouldn’t it be preferable to vote for her rather than just saying wel she is a dem so she is establishment?

a reply to: Grambler

There certainly is an argument for more voices getting out there, but that doesn't mean they are being heard. The whole ecosystem is so large that they don't need to deplatform, they can simply omit the result. The bigger it gets, the easier it gets. I see it as going backwards, not forward.

The internet forum, such as ATS, was the height of exchange of ideas, again IMO. The projection of a facade with flashy imagery and confirmation bias is what began the downfall. Not at all saying this is what you are doing.

a reply to: JinMI

Oh don’t worry, I don’t take anything anyone is saying here personally

Facebook and twitter seem to be losing members fast

Those people will go somewhere

The truth is that eventually alternative voices will be heard by people that would only a few years ago never been exposed to those ideas

Look at people like Jordan Peterson (right leaning) Brett Weinstein (left leaning) and many others

These voices calling out the establishment in moderate ways are becoming immensely popular, despite efforts by the establishment to shut them down

Most people are getting fed up with the system in my opinion, both with these attempts at censorship and with politics

I think that although the transition will be volatile, we will start to see a change for the better

It could take years, and I could be wrong

But I am optimistic