More people arrested in the UK over......a Joke.

a reply to: Unruhestifter
Lol true
David Icke would be in the tower of London being tortured as well!

a reply to: SprocketUK

Well I said nothing about the queen deserving heckling, only that to have free speech people must have that right. It was of course just meant to illustrate a point.

Law enforcement should never have a role in limiting speech or even the power to do so. At least not in a free society. Any power given will always be abused and used to control people. There are those among us who would even control our thoughts if they could. The self proclaimed elite view the average person as an idiot who needs to be parented by the self proclaimed elite.

People who do disgusting things that pose no risk to anyone else do deserve to be scorned and rejected.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Blaine91555

David Icke claims in public, on the BBC, on his website and generally everywhere that the Queen and the Royal Family are evil blood guzzling alien shape shifting lizards. He has yet to be prosecuted or otherwise silenced so there goes your example, I'm afraid.

Ever heard of the Sex Pistols?

Icke

I just picked that about the queen out of the ether as an example. I have no idea if you can stand on the side of the road and heckle the queen as she goes by or not. Can you? Can you hold up a sign and yell insults directed at her without consequence? You tell me?

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: SprocketUK

Well I said nothing about the queen deserving heckling, only that to have free speech people must have that right. It was of course just meant to illustrate a point.

Law enforcement should never have a role in limiting speech or even the power to do so. At least not in a free society. Any power given will always be abused and used to control people. There are those among us who would even control our thoughts if they could. The self proclaimed elite view the average person as an idiot who needs to be parented by the self proclaimed elite.

People who do disgusting things that pose no risk to anyone else do deserve to be scorned and rejected.

Freedom of speech is one thing, but freedom after speech is something entirely different.

That is based upon a saying I heard long ago in reference to the U.S.S.R. at the time, but cannot remember the exact quote or who said it, however, it still rings true.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Freedom of speech is one thing, but freedom after speech is something entirely different.

I like that.

It was only a few poppies wasn't it?

a reply to: Blaine91555

There is no law specific to the Queen or Royals. Potential offences could be under the Public Order Act:

"(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he: (a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or (b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting, within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby."

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Blaine91555

There is no law specific to the Queen or Royals. Potential offences could be under the Public Order Act:

"(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he: (a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or (b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting, within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby."

threatening , abusive , insulting , disorderly , are all subjective depending on who you speak to !

our legal system uses subjective states of consciousness to determine legal outcomes !
all hope is lost

a reply to: sapien82

Well, yes. But of course these are all subjective, but what alternative is there? Then there is considerable case law that helps. So it's not just random.

a reply to: oldcarpy

the alternative is , government and legislators stop treating humans / citizens of nations as objects of law and instead as subjects of law , acknowledges that we are all conscious individuals capable of reason , and that we cannot be expected to be subject to laws which use subjective states of consciousness as objective fact .

for example , yes people can say awful things, but to lock someone up for saying something awful and the chance that someone somewhere could be triggered to act because of their words is logical fallacy !
these laws treat us as though we are children who cant reason , and that we are children who are innocent until proven guilty . How can you prove a subjective state of consciousness in court ?

you cant , one persons offense is another persons source of humour !

case A : a human in public speaks hatred towards another group of people
(reasonable aware human beings capable of controlling their emotional states , see it for what it is divisive hate , and its ignored, the aware human acts like water and flows past this stubborn rock of resistance)
a person in public sees this and is offended , is either a part of this group of people or feels offended on their behalf.
This person who has suffered offense then complains to the police and registers a formal complaint of hate speech.

this persons subjective opinion / state of consciousness is then recorded as fact , yet no proof of offense is provided other than hear say!
This maybe backed up by others subjective state of consciousness , so mutually corroborative evidence then exists, yet still based entirely in subjectivity , no objective facts have been given as evidence!

still based entirely on hear say !
offending people , should not be a crime hate speech or any speech , who should be really standing in the dock , the persons ego after all that is all that is offended , not the human being capable of rational thought
we feel offended because society deems any taboo subject as morally repugnant and rallies against anything not accepted by mainstream society.
Just perfect for government everyone scared to speak out in case you get locked up for offending someone !
End result, no one does anything anymore , as we are all to afraid to offend anyone, then grey is the standard colour for everything , art and music doesnt provoke anyone anymore , no one has individuality , we are all mindless drones salving for the almighty dollar !

who is really offended here ? you or your fragile ego? ( not you carpy I'm speaking generally to all )

a reply to: sapien82

You are forgetting that an accused is entitled to be legally represented by lawyers who generally know what they are doing. We have a well developed legal system in the UK.

Here is the Wiki entry for s5 of the Public Order Act which is not as wide as you think it is:

s5 PO Act 1986 - Wiki

There is also plenty of case law that has developed around it.

This incident is close to my heart and totally disgusted me.
I set up a team of therapists who provided treatments to the survivors of the Grenfell fire, the Fire service, people who lost their relatives etc.
I have seen first hand the trauma this incident caused and is still causing for people to be able to move on with their lives.
I know of one fireman whose relationship broke down and has had to relocate out of London. I treated all kinds of people from all sorts of backgrounds.
The immediate aftermath of the fire was like a war zone, with people walking around like zombies and the authorities at a complete loss as to what they should be doing.
The bottom line is, this has now brought back memories that people would rather forget. Some have been re-traumatised. There is an ongoing inquiry which is heart rendering.
If these people get prosecuted by the police so be it, if they don't then by the grace of God the actual perpetrators who caused this inferno by allowing the cladding to be put on the building in the first place will be brought to justice and dealt with by the full force of the law.
Every month on the 14th there are silent walks held all over the UK in support of the people who were affected by the fire. Tomorrow, the people of South Norwood, the area of London where these despicable people came from are holding their own silent march and to quote " To apologise for the idiots in our midst. To show they don't speak for us. To show solidarity. To demand justice."
With all due respect, unless you were there, unless you have first hand experience of how this has affected the local community and people from all over the UK who lost loved ones in that fire in one of the most horrendous ways possible, it matters not whether this video was racist, it matters even less whether it has anything to do with limiting people's freedom of speech, what matters is the profound effect that it has had on the survivors and the emergency responders who attended on that night .....and that is quite simply cruel in the extreme.

a reply to: oldcarpy

my point was that our legal system is developed and built around logic and reason

and logic and reason have been abandoned to accommodate victims of offense because of an ever changing PC culture
where slippery slope logical fallacy is used to create legislation which seeks to lock up those who hold alternative opinions on society or mainstream ideology.

""(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he/she:
(a) uses threatening [or abusive] words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening [or abusive],
within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.""


Again this is all completely subjective based on society and what is considered taboo or offensive , threatening , abusive , disorderly

according to who ? to government , they are the arbiters or morality < the same governments who cover up pedophiles for nationakl security, who then use the same national security to cover up atrocities committed against humanity .
The same government who cover up the very matter we are discussing the grenfell tower fire !

see what Im saying here , we are propping up a corrupt system , its corrupt from the core and then expands into the judicial system , education etc!
a man was recently arrested and charged for "abuse " of the conservative party here in scotland , for putting an A4 sheet of paper saying "torie #s # off"
How is that abuse, how can you abuse something that isnt alive ?
well it appears these laws have simply been put in place, to pave the way so no one can question state authority so no one can point the finger !

a reply to: angelchemuel

I agree with everything that you say. These people are not just idiots, they are hateful idiots and cruel with it.

a reply to: sapien82

Our legal system has not changed, but yes - the PC brigade are all over it.

a reply to: oldcarpy

that is my point logic and reason have been abandoned by our legal system! NAE sorry our entire government

a reply to: sapien82

"How is that abuse, how can you abuse something that isnt alive ?
well it appears these laws have simply been put in place, to pave the way so no one can question state authority so no one can point the finger !"


Are Tories not people?

a reply to: oldcarpy

yes they are individual people! the man who posted the sign didnt address them individually , he address the party and their ideology , policies !

how is telling the tory party to # off , abusing anyone ?
offending yes if you have a fragile ego
how can a party feel abuse if its not direct at anyone specifically , how can they relate to that offense if not directed at them specifically ?

if that is the case then every opposition party member should be up in court for that charge , as they do it daily in the Houses of parliament , they offend the opposition

that law amongst many others are for children , and we are not children

a child cant even be tried in a court of law

a reply to: sapien82

The Tories guy - that was in Scotland where you have a different legal system to England and Wales so I could not really comment. I don't know anything about that case.

a reply to: oldcarpy

ENgland Scotland, im sure we still have the same hate speech laws, we didnt rewrite all of our laws under devolution , we just made amendments to specific laws which were tailored for scotland

Im sure the act was passed before devolution , the public order act was 1986 , devolution was in 1997
I dont think its be amended differently under devolution!