It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Federal Judge allows North Dakota Republicans to block Native Americans from voting

page: 9
15
<< 6  7  8    10  11 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 01:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: BlackJackal
a reply to: Fallingdown

My god...... Seriously are you that dense?

This law is in effect NOW not in 2020!!!!!!!!! That is why you are entirely wrong.


With fewer than 30 days to go before the midterm elections, the Supreme Court decided yesterday to put a finger on the scales to suppress Democratic votes in North Dakota, allowing the state's voter ID law to go into effect before next month's election.


That's right, it is in effect NOW. Arguing with you is like talking to a wall.

LINK


I give up on these folks. It's like arguing with a wall.

Pages of arguments and not one shred of proof. Even the links that are supposed to help argue the other side only say the very same thing. Here is what I got as a quote to persuade me:



➣ Supplemental Documentation

If an individual’s valid form of identification does not include the North Dakota residential address or date of birth, or the North Dakota residential address is not current, the individual may supplement the identification with a current utility bill; a current bank statement; a check or a document issued by a federal, state, local, or tribal government (including those issued by BIA for a tribe located in North Dakota, any other tribal agency or entity, or any other document that sets forth the tribal member’s name, date of birth, and current North Dakota residential address); or a paycheck.


Even the section that is supposed to clear things up only supports your article further. I feel like I'm just running in circles trying to explain what words mean.

I give up.

Thanks for your article, it's a good read.




posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 01:53 PM
link   

originally posted by: BlackJackal
a reply to: Vasa Croe

You are a lost cause.

How do you not see the real issue? The issue isn't that they have options to vote, the issue is that North Dakota targeted a specific group of people for voter suppression (BTW, suppression doesn't mean all, it means some). Their reasons for doing so are non-existent (There is NO documented voter fraud at all) and yet you still believe this is a necessary law. If they are able to prevent even a small percentage away from the polls, their plan is a success.

You are viewing the world only through the glasses of partisan rhetoric.

Answer me one question and I will leave you alone on this topic. Why was this law needed? Please back it up with facts.


Sorry you view my wanting to read laws and understand them for myself as being a lost cause.

This is likely the largest cause of stupidity in politics and what causes most of the divide. People just read a article and assume it is correct and true....even worse for young adults because they just read a quick social media post.

It also doesnt target a specific group of people. It works for every single person in ND that doesnt have an address....so unless that is ONLY native Americans then your premise is untrue.

If by "partisan rhetoric" you mean researched and educated then I am guilty. I prefer my information from THE source, not just any source.

To believe that these folks cant bring a utility bill or other form of supplemental documentation to the booth is lunacy. It isnt any harder than bringing an ID.

If this is so inconvenient for them, it must be SUPER inconvenient to actually vote....having to drive and click on a computer screen and all.

Please....save the outrage for something that is actually outrageous.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 01:57 PM
link   

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: BlackJackal
a reply to: Vasa Croe

You are a lost cause.

How do you not see the real issue? The issue isn't that they have options to vote, the issue is that North Dakota targeted a specific group of people for voter suppression (BTW, suppression doesn't mean all, it means some). Their reasons for doing so are non-existent (There is NO documented voter fraud at all) and yet you still believe this is a necessary law. If they are able to prevent even a small percentage away from the polls, their plan is a success.

You are viewing the world only through the glasses of partisan rhetoric.

Answer me one question and I will leave you alone on this topic. Why was this law needed? Please back it up with facts.


Sorry you view my wanting to read laws and understand them for myself as being a lost cause.

This is likely the largest cause of stupidity in politics and what causes most of the divide. People just read a article and assume it is correct and true....even worse for young adults because they just read a quick social media post.

It also doesnt target a specific group of people. It works for every single person in ND that doesnt have an address....so unless that is ONLY native Americans then your premise is untrue.

If by "partisan rhetoric" you mean researched and educated then I am guilty. I prefer my information from THE source, not just any source.

To believe that these folks cant bring a utility bill or other form of supplemental documentation to the booth is lunacy. It isnt any harder than bringing an ID.

If this is so inconvenient for them, it must be SUPER inconvenient to actually vote....having to drive and click on a computer screen and all.

Please....save the outrage for something that is actually outrageous.


I see, you are not capable of answering the question so you deflect. It's ok, the dust bin of history is waiting for people like you who choose to stick your head in the sand and continue to defend Jim Crow laws.

Where is the voter fraud? Where is it?

Laws are not supposed to be made to keep parties in power, they are intended to address issues. There is absolutely no issue for this law to address other than attempting to suppress the vote.

Again I ask, where is the voter fraud????



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 01:57 PM
link   
a reply to: Mahogany

The only section that applies to is the tribal government part....here...I will make it easy for you:


tribal government (including those issued by BIA for a tribe located in North Dakota, any other tribal agency or entity, or any other document that sets forth the tribal member’s name, date of birth, and current North Dakota residential address);



Which is why what is in brackets ONLY references the tribal government docs.

Why do you choose to ignore the first half of the law?


If an individual’s valid form of identification does not include the North Dakota residential address


Odd to say that if it is negated by the line in brackets....

That is because it doesnt....they can still vote just like anyone else. Its partisan crap reporting by those that dont understand the law....hell...the source didnt even quote it and likely for this exact reason.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 01:59 PM
link   
a reply to: Mahogany

I couldn't agree more. It really is sad, it hasn't always been like this around here. We used to be able to discuss politics like humans and actually examine the issues on their merits. Now it's "I'm Right because Trump said I was".

It really is tiring.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:02 PM
link   

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: BlackJackal

Apparently you're the one thats stupid and have never set foot on a rez....So I would be careful calling someone else stupid... This is complete bs

But from you it's expected...... Man you're rallying hard.....

Learn to research......... Weren't you just calling other people stupid yesterday? You're sure looking the fool now


So let's get this straight..... Your post contains absolutely nothing to add to the discussion other than to call me stupid for what??? I don't know because you didn't say. Why don't you post something constructive and let's have a discussion and see who can run circles around the other shall we?



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:03 PM
link   
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Its no use with this poster, It seems by his posting history he comes out every few years around political hot points to do just exactly what hes been doing here for the past few months, and then fades away for another 2

Its clear what the motivation here is, and no ammount of common sense, truth, or evidence is going to sway him.......



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: BlackJackal

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: BlackJackal
a reply to: Vasa Croe

You are a lost cause.

How do you not see the real issue? The issue isn't that they have options to vote, the issue is that North Dakota targeted a specific group of people for voter suppression (BTW, suppression doesn't mean all, it means some). Their reasons for doing so are non-existent (There is NO documented voter fraud at all) and yet you still believe this is a necessary law. If they are able to prevent even a small percentage away from the polls, their plan is a success.

You are viewing the world only through the glasses of partisan rhetoric.

Answer me one question and I will leave you alone on this topic. Why was this law needed? Please back it up with facts.


Sorry you view my wanting to read laws and understand them for myself as being a lost cause.

This is likely the largest cause of stupidity in politics and what causes most of the divide. People just read a article and assume it is correct and true....even worse for young adults because they just read a quick social media post.

It also doesnt target a specific group of people. It works for every single person in ND that doesnt have an address....so unless that is ONLY native Americans then your premise is untrue.

If by "partisan rhetoric" you mean researched and educated then I am guilty. I prefer my information from THE source, not just any source.

To believe that these folks cant bring a utility bill or other form of supplemental documentation to the booth is lunacy. It isnt any harder than bringing an ID.

If this is so inconvenient for them, it must be SUPER inconvenient to actually vote....having to drive and click on a computer screen and all.

Please....save the outrage for something that is actually outrageous.


I see, you are not capable of answering the question so you deflect. It's ok, the dust bin of history is waiting for people like you who choose to stick your head in the sand and continue to defend Jim Crow laws.

Where is the voter fraud? Where is it?

Laws are not supposed to be made to keep parties in power, they are intended to address issues. There is absolutely no issue for this law to address other than attempting to suppress the vote.

Again I ask, where is the voter fraud????


What voter fraud? Are you moving the goalposts again? Or just trying to change the argument?

Voter fraud isnt mentioned in your OP, nor in the sourced article.

I am simply pointing out how you just ran with a partisan source and even yourself stated:


This law makes it impossible for most Native Americans to vote at all since they can't just obtain a street address. 


Which is a blatant lie and completely wrong based on exactly the law you keep saying says something it does not.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:07 PM
link   
a reply to: BlackJackal




So let's get this straight..... Your post contains absolutely nothing to add to the discussion other than to call me stupid for what???


No.....you called someone else stupid, I responded with the fact that youre the one who looks stupid because you cant parse the data in your own post......




I don't know because you didn't say. Why don't you post something constructive and let's have a discussion and see who can run circles around the other shall we?


LoL youre not running circles around anyone my friend, trust me......

Your own article is clear once you get past the bias in it, that it doesnt restrict anyone from voting.

I will also add, since my family literally came off the rez, and I have been to many many reservations, I have yet to be to one who didnt have street names........

You have to have street names to register vehicles, kids for school etc, yes even on the rez........

But again......I know your game.......and youre not going to drag me into it........

Kuddos to everyone else on the thread who actually read the article and others related to it and found out the truth, regardless of how hard the OP is trying to push it a different direction.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:08 PM
link   

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: Mahogany

The only section that applies to is the tribal government part....here...I will make it easy for you:


tribal government (including those issued by BIA for a tribe located in North Dakota, any other tribal agency or entity, or any other document that sets forth the tribal member’s name, date of birth, and current North Dakota residential address);



Which is why what is in brackets ONLY references the tribal government docs.

Why do you choose to ignore the first half of the law?


If an individual’s valid form of identification does not include the North Dakota residential address


Odd to say that if it is negated by the line in brackets....

That is because it doesnt....they can still vote just like anyone else. Its partisan crap reporting by those that dont understand the law....hell...the source didnt even quote it and likely for this exact reason.



Ok, now I'm 100% sure you do not understand the law you are quoting.

I'll quote this section you said proves the article wrong , once AGAIN:



➣ Supplemental Documentation

If an individual’s valid form of identification does not include the North Dakota residential address or date of birth, or the North Dakota residential address is not current, the individual may supplement the identification with a current utility bill; a current bank statement; a check or a document issued by a federal, state, local, or tribal government (including those issued by BIA for a tribe located in North Dakota, any other tribal agency or entity, or any other document that sets forth the tribal member’s name, date of birth, and current North Dakota residential address); or a paycheck.


A bank statement or a utility bill is supplemented as they always have an address on them, EXCEPT for Native Americans as they don't have residential addresses.

If your State ID has no address on it, how can your utility bill have one?

Your... quote... proves... the... article... correct. Slow enough?

I will make you a solemn vow here: if you find a section of the law that supports what you're saying I will read it and comment. Otherwise, I hope you are able to comprehend that everything you posted supports the OP.

Now, if you really researched this, you would find that some 40% of Native American homes have no running water. Some 15-20% have no electricity. Reservations do not have the same infrastructure as the cities do. Many, many run gasoline generators.

This law suppresses them from voting unless they have a valid residential address, which most don't.




posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:12 PM
link   
a reply to: Mahogany

Their land wasn't taken to build a pipeline.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:13 PM
link   

originally posted by: Mahogany
If your State ID has no address on it, how can your utility bill have one?


Uh, because it will have a service address? The utility company isn't providing cable, electricity, or phone service to a goddamned PO box, man. I dunno if your PO box has running water and a T connection, but I've sure never seen one that does.

Jesus Christ, this isn't that complex.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:14 PM
link   
a reply to: BlackJackal




Tribes have extended their office hours and worked around the clock to find efficient ways to assign addresses and issue identification. They are providing hundreds of free IDs when they would normally charge at least $5 to $10 apiece.


Source

Oh look. They can find out their address and get IDs. Problem solved.

I'm not sure how requiring ID is voter suppression unless you think some groups are incapable of getting IDs. That seems to me a little prejudiced.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:14 PM
link   
a reply to: Mahogany
Read my post on the 3rd page, they can very easily acquire a street address for free along with supporting documentation to allow them to vote.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:22 PM
link   
a reply to: Propagandalf

Yea I pointed that out a page or two ago, nobody paid it much notice. Out of the entire group that MIGHT have been impacted, about half have already solved the problem thanks to folks willing to step up and fix the issue rather than flap their gums about it.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:23 PM
link   

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Mahogany
Read my post on the 3rd page, they can very easily acquire a street address for free along with supporting documentation to allow them to vote.


Thanks, I read your link. From it:


Those IDs used to be accepted at polling places — including in this year's primary election — but will not be valid for the general election. And that decision became final less than a month before Election Day, after years of confusing court battles and alterations to the requirements.

Tens of thousands of North Dakotans, including Native and non-Native residents, do not have residential addresses on their IDs and will now find it harder to vote.

They will have the option of proving their residency with "supplemental documentation," like utility bills, but according to court records, about 18,000 North Dakotans don't have those documents, either.


So some, who have scrambled for new IDs only weeks before the election MAY get to vote while THOUSANDS of others won't.

I have a feeling that when we read articles, we take totally different things from them.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:26 PM
link   
Just so we can stop having page after page of bickering over the law's actual text without citing the actual law and using a summary of it (seems silly to argue about the language of a law without providing the law in question, but maybe that's just me), I found the law for everybody.


3. a. A valid form of identification is: (1) A driver's license or nondriver's identification card issued by the North Dakota department of transportation; or (2) An official form of identification issued by a tribal government to a tribal member residing in this state.

b. If an individual's valid form of identification does not include all the information required under subsection 2 or the information on the identification is not current, the identification must be supplemented by presenting any of the following issued to the individual which provides the missing or outdated information: (1) A current utility bill; (2) A current bank statement; (3) A check issued by a federal, state, or local government; (4) A paycheck; or (5) A document issued by a federal, state, or local government.


Law text
edit on 6-11-2018 by Shamrock6 because: forgot link to code section



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Propagandalf

Yea I pointed that out a page or two ago, nobody paid it much notice. Out of the entire group that MIGHT have been impacted, about half have already solved the problem thanks to folks willing to step up and fix the issue rather than flap their gums about it.


I mean it's common sense. Well, unless you infantilize these groups.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:28 PM
link   

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Mahogany
Read my post on the 3rd page, they can very easily acquire a street address for free along with supporting documentation to allow them to vote.


Here's more:


The state government says that residents without a street ID should contact their county's 911 coordinator to sign up for a free street address and request a letter confirming that address.

A group called Native Vote ND has been sharing those official instructions on Facebook.

Jamie Azure, the tribal chairman of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians, says his tribe has been preparing for this shift ever since the law was first passed years ago — but with the final decision coming just weeks before Election Day, "the timing is horrible," he tells NPR. "It's just a daunting process."


Now be completely honest. Is it fair to do this to thousands of people just a couple of weeks before the election?

Is there a guarantee that all those 18,000 will be processed in two weeks?

This is a very, very sleazy, slimy attempt to stop people from voting, weeks before the election. People that traditionally vote Democrat and are usually pooped on by the Republicans and the corporations. The only way not to see it is if you choose not to see it. Blinders and all.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 02:30 PM
link   

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: BlackJackal

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: BlackJackal
a reply to: Vasa Croe

You are a lost cause.

How do you not see the real issue? The issue isn't that they have options to vote, the issue is that North Dakota targeted a specific group of people for voter suppression (BTW, suppression doesn't mean all, it means some). Their reasons for doing so are non-existent (There is NO documented voter fraud at all) and yet you still believe this is a necessary law. If they are able to prevent even a small percentage away from the polls, their plan is a success.

You are viewing the world only through the glasses of partisan rhetoric.

Answer me one question and I will leave you alone on this topic. Why was this law needed? Please back it up with facts.


Sorry you view my wanting to read laws and understand them for myself as being a lost cause.

This is likely the largest cause of stupidity in politics and what causes most of the divide. People just read a article and assume it is correct and true....even worse for young adults because they just read a quick social media post.

It also doesnt target a specific group of people. It works for every single person in ND that doesnt have an address....so unless that is ONLY native Americans then your premise is untrue.

If by "partisan rhetoric" you mean researched and educated then I am guilty. I prefer my information from THE source, not just any source.

To believe that these folks cant bring a utility bill or other form of supplemental documentation to the booth is lunacy. It isnt any harder than bringing an ID.

If this is so inconvenient for them, it must be SUPER inconvenient to actually vote....having to drive and click on a computer screen and all.

Please....save the outrage for something that is actually outrageous.


I see, you are not capable of answering the question so you deflect. It's ok, the dust bin of history is waiting for people like you who choose to stick your head in the sand and continue to defend Jim Crow laws.

Where is the voter fraud? Where is it?

Laws are not supposed to be made to keep parties in power, they are intended to address issues. There is absolutely no issue for this law to address other than attempting to suppress the vote.

Again I ask, where is the voter fraud????


What voter fraud? Are you moving the goalposts again? Or just trying to change the argument?

Voter fraud isnt mentioned in your OP, nor in the sourced article.

I am simply pointing out how you just ran with a partisan source and even yourself stated:


This law makes it impossible for most Native Americans to vote at all since they can't just obtain a street address. 


Which is a blatant lie and completely wrong based on exactly the law you keep saying says something it does not.


That's not me saying that, that is the Native American's from North Dakota.


On Tuesday, a group of Native Americans returned to court with a new lawsuit demonstrating that the residential address rule did not merely burden their right to vote; it denied them access to the ballot altogether. Their suit explained how tribal voters simply could not obtain a residential address: The state’s mapping systems conflict with each other, as do the state’s different residency databases, meaning many voters cannot secure an official address in time for the election.


So, yes, some of these people who are not able to meet the demands of the new law will be unable to vote even if they were able to before.

From your copy of the law you posted earlier:


➣ Supplemental Documentation

If an individual’s valid form of identification does not include the North Dakota residential address or date of birth, or the North Dakota residential address is not current, the individual may supplement the identification with a current utility bill; a current bank statement; a check or a document issued by a federal, state, local, or tribal government (including those issued by BIA for a tribe located in North Dakota, any other tribal agency or entity, or any other document that sets forth the tribal member’s name, date of birth, and current North Dakota residential address); or a paycheck.


If a person who has always used a PO box attempts to vote with a utility bill that has the PO box on it, they will be declined. They MUST have a residential address in order to vote. If it is not on their ID, they must provide a utility bill or some other documentation with the address on it. THAT IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM. They don't have residential addresses so yes, this will prevent them from voting altogether.

All of this because the Republicans are fighting voter fraud that does not exist. Do you understand now?



new topics

top topics



 
15
<< 6  7  8    10  11 >>

log in

join