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Trump administration tried to hide an ethics waiver which indicates their plans against Mueller

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posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:12 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks So, if you’re out there, do you think it’s a good thing for the government to be less transparent about following ethics guidelines? I’d really love to hear your reasons why you think this is a good thing.


What is the law might be the question. There are laws in place that were ignored and selectively enforced by the Obama Administration as we are all aware. As to "transparent" during the reign of Obama, that was part of the "Hope" but didn't seem to "Change." Fast and Furious? IRS scandal? FISA? Identity politics? Many more in the most opaque administration since Nixon.
The Obama administration was never guilty of having excessive ethics.

ETA: Feinstein hiding the Ford letter? Some of the slimiest tactics attacking Kavanaugh for spite. All the ethical Dems showing the extent of their ethics.


edit on 11/3/2018 by pteridine because: ETA




posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:16 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: underwerks
Not one right wing poster has addressed what they think about the implications of a presidential administration flouting ethics rules. Just personal attacks, that’s it.

Which of course means you don’t have an argument, but I still want to give them a chance. In the rare case there might be someone out there who can defend this.

So, if you’re out there, do you think it’s a good thing for the government to be less transparent about following ethics guidelines? I’d really love to hear your reasons why you think this is a good thing.


Nobody can because the OP is based on a guess as to what the "plan" is and I guess continues to assume Muellers investigation is getting somewhere.

Do you want anyone on the right to just guess at this or is there something based in fact you can point to that could actually be argued?


It isn’t a “guess” that the Trump admin has already issued more ethics wavers at this point than the last administration did over its entire time in office.

That’s what I’m talking about.

I’d think if people really cared about transparency in government and holding politicians accountable they’d be against something that by definition makes them legally unaccountable.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the reason why these ethics waivers are being passed out like candy is so the people in question won’t be held to ethical standards. We can guess all day about the reasons behind this, but that isn’t the important part. The important part is how frequently these are being handed out.

And me not being a fan of government, I can’t help but wonder why people think that’s a good idea.
edit on 3-11-2018 by underwerks because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal




Last night the news broke that the Trump administration had signed an ethics waiver in April of this year but they did not make this information public like they are supposed to


From your link.




It’s not clear what triggered the waiver or if it had anything to do with Mueller’s investigation


Also on the slide show you linked on the first page at the bottom it actually says Former Jones Day Employees. Notice the s on the end of Employees.



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: underwerks So, if you’re out there, do you think it’s a good thing for the government to be less transparent about following ethics guidelines? I’d really love to hear your reasons why you think this is a good thing.


What is the law might be the question. There are laws in place that were ignored and selectively enforced by the Obama Administration as we are all aware. As to "transparent" during the reign of Obama, that was part of the "Hope" but didn't seem to "Change." Fast and Furious? IRS scandal? FISA? Identity politics? Many more in the most opaque administration since Nixon.
The Obama administration was never guilty of having excessive ethics.



What the Obama admin may or may not have done has no bearing on the standards the Trump admin should be held to.

We shouldn’t drop the standards we hold the current government to simply because there have been crooks in the past.



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: BlackJackal
Last night the news broke that the Trump administration had signed an ethics waiver in April of this year but they did not make this information public like they are supposed to. As you can see here all ethics waivers are published online. This waiver is for Soliciter General Noel Francisco and waives him from any ethics rules in relation to who his law firm, Jones Day, is representing.

So, keeping the waiver secret is one story but the bigger story are the implications. Jones Day represents Donald Trump in the Mueller investigation. If Rod Rosenstein is fired the Mueller investigation would fall to the Solicitor General because the third position in the DOJ is currently vacant. However, without this waiver he would not be able to legally take the Mueller investigation due to conflicts of interest.

So it is now obvious what Trumps plans are for after the election. He will either fire Rosenstein or Rosenstein and Sessions and allow the investigation to fall to Noel Francisco a former member of the law firm defending Trump.

Link



Not sure what the big deal would be. Mueller has turned up absolutely zero in regards to anything on Trump....you know....the guy he was hired to destroy....literally nothing.

So why would anyone care if he continued right? I mean keep on blowing tax payer money dems....that's what they are the best at.


You must be young. The last special council investigation took 4 years to complete. The special council looking into Watergate took 4 years. These are serious allegations and deserve serious investigation.

Just because he hasn't released anything publicly does not mean he doesn't have anything against Trump at all. If he does his job correctly the public should know very little up to the day he publishes his findings.

Surely you understand that.



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:30 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: underwerks
Not one right wing poster has addressed what they think about the implications of a presidential administration flouting ethics rules. Just personal attacks, that’s it.

Which of course means you don’t have an argument, but I still want to give them a chance. In the rare case there might be someone out there who can defend this.

So, if you’re out there, do you think it’s a good thing for the government to be less transparent about following ethics guidelines? I’d really love to hear your reasons why you think this is a good thing.


Nobody can because the OP is based on a guess as to what the "plan" is and I guess continues to assume Muellers investigation is getting somewhere.

Do you want anyone on the right to just guess at this or is there something based in fact you can point to that could actually be argued?


It isn’t a “guess” that the Trump admin has already issued more ethics wavers at this point than the last administration did over its entire time in office.

That’s what I’m talking about.

I’d think if people really cared about transparency in government and holding politicians accountable they’d be against something that by definition makes them legally unaccountable.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the reason why these ethics waivers are being passed out like candy is so the people in question won’t be held to ethical standards. We can guess all day about the reasons behind this, but that isn’t the important part. The important part is how frequently these are being handed out.

And me not being a fan of government, I can’t help but wonder why people think that’s a good idea.


Unfortunately that is something that cant really be argued either. Sure there are waivers and they are for investigations and cases. So unless we expect the investigations and cases to be opened to the public as well then it really doesn't matter.

Is that what you are arguing for? Personally I'd love for that to happen. Unfortunately it would create a lot more issues if it did.



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: underwerks So, if you’re out there, do you think it’s a good thing for the government to be less transparent about following ethics guidelines? I’d really love to hear your reasons why you think this is a good thing.


What is the law might be the question. There are laws in place that were ignored and selectively enforced by the Obama Administration as we are all aware. As to "transparent" during the reign of Obama, that was part of the "Hope" but didn't seem to "Change." Fast and Furious? IRS scandal? FISA? Identity politics? Many more in the most opaque administration since Nixon.
The Obama administration was never guilty of having excessive ethics.



What the Obama admin may or may not have done has no bearing on the standards the Trump admin should be held to.

We shouldn’t drop the standards we hold the current government to simply because there have been crooks in the past.


"What is the law?" continues to be the question. Is there a law that says this must be done in a specific and timely fashion? If so, then the Trump administration is at fault. If not, then there is no violation.

If this was an arbitrary guideline invented by a past administration for purposes of their own without the force of law, why should subsequent administrations be held to it?



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:38 PM
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Post removed by ATS staff
edit on 5/11/18 by JustMike because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:41 PM
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originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: underwerks So, if you’re out there, do you think it’s a good thing for the government to be less transparent about following ethics guidelines? I’d really love to hear your reasons why you think this is a good thing.


What is the law might be the question. There are laws in place that were ignored and selectively enforced by the Obama Administration as we are all aware. As to "transparent" during the reign of Obama, that was part of the "Hope" but didn't seem to "Change." Fast and Furious? IRS scandal? FISA? Identity politics? Many more in the most opaque administration since Nixon.
The Obama administration was never guilty of having excessive ethics.



What the Obama admin may or may not have done has no bearing on the standards the Trump admin should be held to.

We shouldn’t drop the standards we hold the current government to simply because there have been crooks in the past.


"What is the law?" continues to be the question. Is there a law that says this must be done in a specific and timely fashion? If so, then the Trump administration is at fault. If not, then there is no violation.

If this was an arbitrary guideline invented by a past administration for purposes of their own without the force of law, why should subsequent administrations be held to it?


I haven't seen any law on this. I have a feeling it is what you stated, similar to the releasing tax records. Just because it was done by others does not mean it has to be done.



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: underwerks
Not one right wing poster has addressed what they think about the implications of a presidential administration flouting ethics rules. Just personal attacks, that’s it.

Which of course means you don’t have an argument, but I still want to give them a chance. In the rare case there might be someone out there who can defend this.

So, if you’re out there, do you think it’s a good thing for the government to be less transparent about following ethics guidelines? I’d really love to hear your reasons why you think this is a good thing.


Nobody can because the OP is based on a guess as to what the "plan" is and I guess continues to assume Muellers investigation is getting somewhere.

Do you want anyone on the right to just guess at this or is there something based in fact you can point to that could actually be argued?


It isn’t a “guess” that the Trump admin has already issued more ethics wavers at this point than the last administration did over its entire time in office.

That’s what I’m talking about.

I’d think if people really cared about transparency in government and holding politicians accountable they’d be against something that by definition makes them legally unaccountable.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the reason why these ethics waivers are being passed out like candy is so the people in question won’t be held to ethical standards. We can guess all day about the reasons behind this, but that isn’t the important part. The important part is how frequently these are being handed out.

And me not being a fan of government, I can’t help but wonder why people think that’s a good idea.


Unfortunately that is something that cant really be argued either. Sure there are waivers and they are for investigations and cases. So unless we expect the investigations and cases to be opened to the public as well then it really doesn't matter.

Is that what you are arguing for? Personally I'd love for that to happen. Unfortunately it would create a lot more issues if it did.


Thanks for a level headed and honest response. I don’t see too many of those anymore.

I will always argue on the side of more transparency and not less when it comes to the people that are supposed to represent us. My problem as I stated above is the frequency these are being handed out. I don’t see it as a positive sign that a good number of our “leaders” are given what amounts to a get out of jail free card on certain ethical issues. It seems a lot of people here disagree with me.

I can’t condone that regardless of the letter beside a persons name, because in the end the government is always the government. Whatever standards are set by the Trump admin will be lowered by the next guy in office. So it’s only going to get worse unless these types of things are called out.



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: pteridine


If this was an arbitrary guideline invented by a past administration for purposes of their own without the force of law, why should subsequent administrations be held to it?


In the interest of transparency for the good of the people. That whole America first thing.



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:45 PM
link   
Post removed by ATS staff

edit on 5/11/18 by JustMike because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: Terza
a reply to: BlackJackal

Oh how times have changed...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


It’s telling you dig through someone’s post history to try and discredit them instead of actually addressing the topic in the OP.



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:49 PM
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Post removed by ATS staff
edit on 5/11/18 by JustMike because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: underwerks
Not one right wing poster has addressed what they think about the implications of a presidential administration flouting ethics rules. Just personal attacks, that’s it.

Which of course means you don’t have an argument, but I still want to give them a chance. In the rare case there might be someone out there who can defend this.

So, if you’re out there, do you think it’s a good thing for the government to be less transparent about following ethics guidelines? I’d really love to hear your reasons why you think this is a good thing.


Nobody can because the OP is based on a guess as to what the "plan" is and I guess continues to assume Muellers investigation is getting somewhere.

Do you want anyone on the right to just guess at this or is there something based in fact you can point to that could actually be argued?


It isn’t a “guess” that the Trump admin has already issued more ethics wavers at this point than the last administration did over its entire time in office.

That’s what I’m talking about.

I’d think if people really cared about transparency in government and holding politicians accountable they’d be against something that by definition makes them legally unaccountable.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the reason why these ethics waivers are being passed out like candy is so the people in question won’t be held to ethical standards. We can guess all day about the reasons behind this, but that isn’t the important part. The important part is how frequently these are being handed out.

And me not being a fan of government, I can’t help but wonder why people think that’s a good idea.


Unfortunately that is something that cant really be argued either. Sure there are waivers and they are for investigations and cases. So unless we expect the investigations and cases to be opened to the public as well then it really doesn't matter.

Is that what you are arguing for? Personally I'd love for that to happen. Unfortunately it would create a lot more issues if it did.


I can’t condone that regardless of the letter beside a persons name, because in the end the government is always the government. Whatever standards are set by the Trump admin will be lowered by the next guy in office. So it’s only going to get worse unless these types of things are called out.


You may be better off stating that "Whatever standards are set by the Trump admin will be changed by the next guy in office." This has always been true and will continue to be so. Each individual will decide if such changes are better or worse.



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:55 PM
link   

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Terza
a reply to: BlackJackal

Oh how times have changed...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


It’s telling you dig through someone’s post history to try and discredit them instead of actually addressing the topic in the OP.


LOL...Even MORE telling when the OP does it in his own thread



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 12:55 PM
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originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: underwerks
Not one right wing poster has addressed what they think about the implications of a presidential administration flouting ethics rules. Just personal attacks, that’s it.

Which of course means you don’t have an argument, but I still want to give them a chance. In the rare case there might be someone out there who can defend this.

So, if you’re out there, do you think it’s a good thing for the government to be less transparent about following ethics guidelines? I’d really love to hear your reasons why you think this is a good thing.


Nobody can because the OP is based on a guess as to what the "plan" is and I guess continues to assume Muellers investigation is getting somewhere.

Do you want anyone on the right to just guess at this or is there something based in fact you can point to that could actually be argued?


It isn’t a “guess” that the Trump admin has already issued more ethics wavers at this point than the last administration did over its entire time in office.

That’s what I’m talking about.

I’d think if people really cared about transparency in government and holding politicians accountable they’d be against something that by definition makes them legally unaccountable.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the reason why these ethics waivers are being passed out like candy is so the people in question won’t be held to ethical standards. We can guess all day about the reasons behind this, but that isn’t the important part. The important part is how frequently these are being handed out.

And me not being a fan of government, I can’t help but wonder why people think that’s a good idea.


Unfortunately that is something that cant really be argued either. Sure there are waivers and they are for investigations and cases. So unless we expect the investigations and cases to be opened to the public as well then it really doesn't matter.

Is that what you are arguing for? Personally I'd love for that to happen. Unfortunately it would create a lot more issues if it did.


I can’t condone that regardless of the letter beside a persons name, because in the end the government is always the government. Whatever standards are set by the Trump admin will be lowered by the next guy in office. So it’s only going to get worse unless these types of things are called out.


You may be better off stating that "Whatever standards are set by the Trump admin will be changed by the next guy in office." This has always been true and will continue to be so. Each individual will decide if such changes are better or worse.


Looking at history, ethics in government only go in one direction. And it isn’t towards more ethical behavior.



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 01:10 PM
link   

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: underwerks
Not one right wing poster has addressed what they think about the implications of a presidential administration flouting ethics rules. Just personal attacks, that’s it.

Which of course means you don’t have an argument, but I still want to give them a chance. In the rare case there might be someone out there who can defend this.

So, if you’re out there, do you think it’s a good thing for the government to be less transparent about following ethics guidelines? I’d really love to hear your reasons why you think this is a good thing.


Nobody can because the OP is based on a guess as to what the "plan" is and I guess continues to assume Muellers investigation is getting somewhere.

Do you want anyone on the right to just guess at this or is there something based in fact you can point to that could actually be argued?


It isn’t a “guess” that the Trump admin has already issued more ethics wavers at this point than the last administration did over its entire time in office.

That’s what I’m talking about.

I’d think if people really cared about transparency in government and holding politicians accountable they’d be against something that by definition makes them legally unaccountable.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the reason why these ethics waivers are being passed out like candy is so the people in question won’t be held to ethical standards. We can guess all day about the reasons behind this, but that isn’t the important part. The important part is how frequently these are being handed out.

And me not being a fan of government, I can’t help but wonder why people think that’s a good idea.


Unfortunately that is something that cant really be argued either. Sure there are waivers and they are for investigations and cases. So unless we expect the investigations and cases to be opened to the public as well then it really doesn't matter.

Is that what you are arguing for? Personally I'd love for that to happen. Unfortunately it would create a lot more issues if it did.


I can’t condone that regardless of the letter beside a persons name, because in the end the government is always the government. Whatever standards are set by the Trump admin will be lowered by the next guy in office. So it’s only going to get worse unless these types of things are called out.


You may be better off stating that "Whatever standards are set by the Trump admin will be changed by the next guy in office." This has always been true and will continue to be so. Each individual will decide if such changes are better or worse.


Looking at history, ethics in government only go in one direction. And it isn’t towards more ethical behavior.


There is probably no specific trend from administration to administration and likely from term to term for the same President; some better, some worse over the historical timeline. This is undoubtedly a book topic.



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 01:10 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Shamrock6




You're not reaching anybody. You're not converting anybody.


Do you say all this same stuff in the pro-Trump, liberal Democrat bashing threads?





Ummm...yeah...yes he does...Shamrock is one of the most non-partisan moderates on this site...

I realize he’s a big boy and doesn’t need me to carry his water...yet he calls out both sides when they’re being asinine...


He can definitely get under your craw...but he’s a good guy with a level head...who usually hangs on the mature side of any issue...


And that’s coming from my crass ass...




YouSir



posted on Nov, 3 2018 @ 01:26 PM
link   
a reply to: YouSir


I don't see anything level headed about personally attacking a poster for authoring a thread about the Trump administration's secret ethics waiver, that may allow a chief individual from Trump's campaign's lawfirm to oversee the "Russian Investigation" into the Trump Campaign.



edit on 3-11-2018 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



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