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8 U.S. Code Section 1401. The following shall be NATIONALS and citizens of the U.S. at birth

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posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye

The only way to acquire US nationality is via the operation of laws created by Congress. However, you can be born a citizen by virtue of the US Constitution.


How is that... Your statement above is backwards.


The nationality is an ethnic or racial concept. On the other hand, citizenship is a legal or juristic concept.




originally posted by: MotherMayEye
All of our laws regarding eligibility for a government office depend, in part, on citizenship and none expressly require nationality.

Why would Congress create a way to bypass eligibility laws by making it so someone who owes no allegiance to the US could be born a citizen?




I'm not sure the question you are asking. The debate is whether your second statement is true or not. Indians had nationality but they didn't have citizenship.


edit on 1-11-2018 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

I am using the definitions that apply to the US nationality code:


8 U.S. Code § 1101 - Definitions
(21) The term “national” means a person owing permanent allegiance to a state.

(22) The term “national of the United States” means (A) a citizen of the United States, or (B) a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.

Link

edit on 11/1/2018 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:38 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero
"The only way to acquire US nationality is via the operation of laws created by Congress. However, you can be born a citizen by virtue of the US Constitution."

How is that... Your statement above is backwards.


But it's not backward. Congress passed the nationality act conferring nationality...the Constitution does not expressly confer nationality.
edit on 11/1/2018 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:39 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Do you honestly believe that every person who is an american holds allegiance to this country?

You do not have to love America to be an American.. Thats the best thing about living here. You are not forced into any kind of allegiance.



Well, you are actually forced into an allegiance and I assume you want to force it on every child born in the US, too?

But, if you aren't feeling it, then you can always renounce your US nationality and therefore your citizenship. Otherwise you have tacitly agreed to your US allegiance...if you qualified for citizenship and nationality under 8 US code section 1401, that is.

IOW, I am discussing concrete legal concepts...you're talking about your emotions.


I don't think you can renounce your nationality...



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:40 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Xtrozero

I am using the definitions that apply to the US nationality code:


8 U.S. Code § 1101 - Definitions
(21) The term “national” means a person owing permanent allegiance to a state.

(22) The term “national of the United States” means (A) a citizen of the United States, or (B) a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.

Link


The terms are also used interchangeable in many cases...



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:40 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

I'm not sure how it relates to this, but I contracted for a German National in the 80's who lives permanently in the US.

His family was taken in for his parents working as double agents during WW2 and allowed to live here for life. He served in Vietnam and had all the rights of a citizen, but always maintained his German citizenship. His children were US citizens, but he was born in Germany.



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:44 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Do you honestly believe that every person who is an american holds allegiance to this country?

You do not have to love America to be an American.. Thats the best thing about living here. You are not forced into any kind of allegiance.



Well, you are actually forced into an allegiance and I assume you want to force it on every child born in the US, too?

But, if you aren't feeling it, then you can always renounce your US nationality and therefore your citizenship. Otherwise you have tacitly agreed to your US allegiance...if you qualified for citizenship and nationality under 8 US code section 1401, that is.

IOW, I am discussing concrete legal concepts...you're talking about your emotions.


I don't think you can renounce your nationality...


You can:


8 U.S. Code § 1481 - Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—

etc...

Link



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:44 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: MotherMayEye

I'm not sure how it relates to this, but I contracted for a German National in the 80's who lives permanently in the US.

His family was taken in for his parents working as double agents during WW2 and allowed to live here for life. He served in Vietnam and had all the rights of a citizen, but always maintained his German citizenship. His children were US citizens, but he was born in Germany.



Case in point.
I have a son born in Japan...what is his nationality? He is a US Citizen since his parents are...



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

But they are obviously not interchangeable as evidenced in 8 US Code Section 1401.



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:46 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Do you honestly believe that every person who is an american holds allegiance to this country?

You do not have to love America to be an American.. Thats the best thing about living here. You are not forced into any kind of allegiance.



Well, you are actually forced into an allegiance and I assume you want to force it on every child born in the US, too?

But, if you aren't feeling it, then you can always renounce your US nationality and therefore your citizenship. Otherwise you have tacitly agreed to your US allegiance...if you qualified for citizenship and nationality under 8 US code section 1401, that is.

IOW, I am discussing concrete legal concepts...you're talking about your emotions.


I don't think you can renounce your nationality...


You can:


8 U.S. Code § 1481 - Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—

etc...

Link


So what rights does that give you? As I said before the two are also interchangeable. Not sure the point you are making here though...



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:47 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: MotherMayEye

I'm not sure how it relates to this, but I contracted for a German National in the 80's who lives permanently in the US.

His family was taken in for his parents working as double agents during WW2 and allowed to live here for life. He served in Vietnam and had all the rights of a citizen, but always maintained his German citizenship. His children were US citizens, but he was born in Germany.



Case in point.
I have a son born in Japan...what is his nationality? He is a US Citizen since his parents are...



You asked about his nationality....he is a U.S. National.

EDIT: Provided the residency requirements in 8 US Code Section 1401 were met.
edit on 11/1/2018 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:47 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Xtrozero

But they are obviously not interchangeable as evidenced in 8 US Code Section 1401.


Get to your point then...lol

What are you trying to say here?



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:48 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye

You asked about his nationality....he is a U.S. National.


What is the nationality of child born on US soil whose parents are not US nationals/citizens?
edit on 1-11-2018 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:49 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Do you honestly believe that every person who is an american holds allegiance to this country?

You do not have to love America to be an American.. Thats the best thing about living here. You are not forced into any kind of allegiance.



Well, you are actually forced into an allegiance and I assume you want to force it on every child born in the US, too?

But, if you aren't feeling it, then you can always renounce your US nationality and therefore your citizenship. Otherwise you have tacitly agreed to your US allegiance...if you qualified for citizenship and nationality under 8 US code section 1401, that is.

IOW, I am discussing concrete legal concepts...you're talking about your emotions.


I don't think you can renounce your nationality...


You can:


8 U.S. Code § 1481 - Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—

etc...

Link


So what rights does that give you? As I said before the two are also interchangeable. Not sure the point you are making here though...


They aren't interchangeable or else it would be superfluous for Congress to specify them both, here:


8 U.S. Code § 1401 - Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

(etc…)

Link



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:50 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Xtrozero

But they are obviously not interchangeable as evidenced in 8 US Code Section 1401.


Get to your point then...lol

What are you trying to say here?


I know, I am sorry. I want to get to the point, but if I do, that's when people will want to take a side according to their feelings rather than what's most logical.

I am going to write up the thread I mentioned in my OP.

For now, my point is this though and I hope you mull it over because the implications are pretty outrageous:

In 1952, Congress created a situation where people could be born U.S. citizens, but not be born U.S. nationals. I see no law that expressly prohibits it.

HOWEVER, all of our laws regarding eligibility for any government office depend, in part, on citizenship but none expressly require nationality.

Why would Congress create a way to bypass eligibility laws by making it so someone who owes no allegiance to the US could be born a citizen and be eligible to serve in a federal government office?

It's subversive.


edit on 11/1/2018 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:51 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

You asked about his nationality....he is a U.S. National.


What is the nationality of child born on US soil whose parents are not US nationals/citizens?


They are U.S. nationals according to 8 US Code Section 1401(a).

(Although they may be born with dual nationalities...or more.)
edit on 11/1/2018 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

I get that part. Just because parents are traveling when the kid is born, they are still US citizens.

In his case though, he was never a citizen but had the right to stay and act as if he was one. His kids though were born US citizens which is kind of different. I think what I'm missing in that is his wife is an American. That explains it. I was not thinking right.




posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:53 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: MotherMayEye

I'm not sure how it relates to this, but I contracted for a German National in the 80's who lives permanently in the US.

His family was taken in for his parents working as double agents during WW2 and allowed to live here for life. He served in Vietnam and had all the rights of a citizen, but always maintained his German citizenship. His children were US citizens, but he was born in Germany.



Where were they born in the U.S? Do you know, by any chance?



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 06:55 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Xtrozero

I get that part. Just because parents are traveling when the kid is born, they are still US citizens.

In his case though, he was never a citizen but had the right to stay and act as if he was one. His kids though were born US citizens which is kind of different. I think what I'm missing in that is his wife is an American. That explains it. I was not thinking right.



Even if their mom wasn't a U.S. Citizen, they would more than likely have acquired U.S. nationality at birth, via 8 US Code Section 1401(a), if they were born in the U.S.



posted on Nov, 1 2018 @ 07:56 PM
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a reply to: luthier

The President is not bringing up any lawsuit so I don't understand what you mean. Trump is saying this is what the policy is, we need to start following it.







 
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