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Trump claims he can defy Constitution and end birthright citizenship

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posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 05:56 PM
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I feel like the republicans are testing the 2nds waters. The constitution is being played with, but where will it end?




posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 06:00 PM
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a reply to: ksiezyc

True.

But then along cam US v Wong Kim Ark, where SCOTUS ruled that a person born in the US satisfied the "subject to jurisdiction" angle of citizenship in every case outside of a few exceptions.

The problem is that all of this case law, what little there is, was ruled on before "anchor babies" was really a thing, and it's left loopholes (whether real or perceived) that are being exploited.

Personally, I say pull the trigger on it and make SCOTUS issue a ruling to decide the issue. That, or help Graham get his citizenship bill introduced and passed into law.



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 06:24 PM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

You're right, but I'm not choosing sides. I think that's the main difference.



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 06:26 PM
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Well if the last president can skew the lines between a man and a woman.

The next one sure can take instant citizenship away from ILLEGAL immigrants offspring.



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 06:32 PM
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And there is another way to argue this for Trump.



All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Legal US citizens get punished under us jurisdictional law.

Illegal immigrants aren't.

Equal protection they would face the penalties just like legal citizens do.



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: notsure1

originally posted by: amazing
Not bashing Trump here but he seems to be abusing the executive order thing just as much if not more than Obama.

Concerning? yes. It's Obama's 277 to Trumps 42. Not close yet but Trump has another half of his first term and Obama had 2 terms to do that in.


Liberal math lol.

real math Obama will still have 100 more


I had to look this up but it seems both numbers are off.

Obama Exec Orders
Trump Exec Orders

The list for Trump only goes through the end of June 2018, but at June 20th Trump had 77 executive orders.

Around the same date, June 22nd, 2010, at the same time into his presidency, Obama had 57 executive orders.

So ending with June of this year, Trump outpaces Obama at exec orders by about 35%. Thanks for making me look this up, I had no idea how they compared.



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 06:39 PM
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a reply to: Subaeruginosa

It's not against the constitution.

You have to read the whole part.



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 06:51 PM
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a reply to: amazing

He's not necessarily wrong in this context, you were liberal with your parameters for comparison.



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 07:35 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

There's no law set in stone that says he doesn't have the authority.

😎


And how about Article VI, clause 3 of the Constitution?



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 07:42 PM
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a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Why can't people understand plain language anymore?

This Amendment was written after the Civil War to allow slaves to become citizens, since they were blocked from becoming citizens by Democratic lawmakers at the time.

A little light reading for you...


Is automatic birthright citizenship for children of all legal and illegal aliens expressly required by the U.S. Constitution? On its face, the answer is “no.” No language in the Constitution specifically addresses how the children of foreigners must be dealt with in regards to citizenship. The 14th Amendment confers citizenship through “naturalization” or by birth to persons “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States, but provides no guidance on when an alien is to be regarded as subject to U.S. jurisdiction. The next question, then, is whether any statute enacted by Congress specifically directs the granting of citizenship to children born in the United States to illegal aliens. Again, the answer is “no.” The executive branch’s birthright citizenship policy is not based on any federal regulation. One might say that the practice has become policy without becoming law.

Because the current policy has not been taken through the standard legislative or regulatory processes, it has become official practice without any input from the American public or their elected representatives


Illegal aliens are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United Stats, simply because they are not citizens.

Secondly, the practice of "anchor babies" started somewhere in the 60's or 70's... hardly codified law, but a bureaucratic decision made by someone that Presidents since then have never fixed.

An executive Order can certainly fix that, as the process of Naturalization and Immigration are both under the jurisdiction of the Executive Branch.

So all Trump would be doing is once again "fix" something that other Presidents just let slide.

I think he should do it, some whacko leftist judge will stop it and the Supreme Court can hear it out, since they have never ruled on the specific subject.

So at the end of the day, no matter how the liberal Media groans, screams and wails about it, it is most certainly within the jurisdiction of the Executive Branch.

Oh, and the part about Trump throwing this together right before the midterms to rally the base?

False.

He was asked the question from a reporter and was surprised that anyone had even heard about it, since they were quietly talking about it at the White house as a possible avenue to stop the anchor baby problem.

It had nothing to do with the mid-terms until the Media made it so.

Hope that helps...




posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 07:45 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
One thing is certain, Trump's supporters will defend this decision with everything they've got and his opponents will fight it with everything they've got.

I support Trump and I think this is an absolutely stupid idea, just lost a bit of respect for Trump actually if he's seriously considering this.



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 07:50 PM
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originally posted by: AthlonSavage
US citizenry shouldn't be a right you should have to earn it.


Exactly how did the 3.95 million babies born here to citizen parents in 2016 "earn citizenship? Just by being squirted out by a mother they didn't choose, in a place they didn't choose? Perhaps citizenship should be revoked for anyone who hasn't, or won't, spend 3 years in military service, with at least 1 year in combat.



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 07:51 PM
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originally posted by: TheLead
a reply to: amazing

He's not necessarily wrong in this context, you were liberal with your parameters for comparison.


I don't think I was liberal, I was just comparing executive orders. I would have done the same if it was president Romney vs Trump in this context, instead of president Obama.

Remember that being critical of a Republican President doesn't make you a liberal.



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Actually he doesn't claim that. He claims the Constitution already says it must end. It's an interesting argument and one that has NEVER gone before the courts.



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 08:02 PM
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originally posted by: Lumenari
An executive Order can certainly fix that, as the process of Naturalization and Immigration are both under the jurisdiction of the Executive Branch.




All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Seems pretty straightforward.
Good luck trying to change the republic

You right wingers really make me laugh. Endless strawmanning during Obama pretending he somehow was someway corrupting the consitution and were in arms
Now here is a president who is directly and openly saying he is going to ignore it and make EOs to try and nullify it to further his personal agenda and you folks are cheering it on.
Tells me you have very little principles at all...its just a football match and if Trump said we are removing guns and free speech from our rights, most here would most likely thumbs up that also.

mindless npc drones.



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 08:03 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
Remember that being critical of a Republican President doesn't make you a liberal.


But speaking against their god will make you a heretic



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 08:11 PM
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originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Lumenari
An executive Order can certainly fix that, as the process of Naturalization and Immigration are both under the jurisdiction of the Executive Branch.




All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Seems pretty straightforward.
Good luck trying to change the republic

You right wingers really make me laugh. Endless strawmanning during Obama pretending he somehow was someway corrupting the consitution and were in arms
Now here is a president who is directly and openly saying he is going to ignore it and make EOs to try and nullify it to further his personal agenda and you folks are cheering it on.
Tells me you have very little principles at all...its just a football match and if Trump said we are removing guns and free speech from our rights, most here would most likely thumbs up that also.

mindless npc drones.


So you can read but not comprehend simple English.

Fair enough.

For the record, I didn't care one way or another about when Obama was in office until he took away my health care.

Didn't care one bit... accepted the results of the election and went on with my life.

I did vote for him the first time... my bad.

So a pretty pathetic attempt to pigeonhole me.

I do have principles however, not that you would understand or care because to you I am not a human being but someone your side needs to destroy.

So... care to tell me how illegal aliens are under the jurisdiction of a country they do not belong to?

You know... stop the Obama fascination and talk about the subject of the thread.


edit on 30-10-2018 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: SaturnFX


All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof


If being born in the US automatically made you subject to the jurisdiction why include the word and?

In your scenario how can you be born in the US and NOT subject to the jurisdiction thereof?



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 08:34 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: SaturnFX


All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof


If being born in the US automatically made you subject to the jurisdiction why include the word and?

In your scenario how can you be born in the US and NOT subject to the jurisdiction thereof?


Because the poster can read but not comprehend the sentence, much less understand the reason behind the Amendment in the first place.

History... guess they don't teach that in public school anymore.




posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 08:35 PM
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originally posted by: Lumenari
So... care to tell me how illegal aliens are under the jurisdiction of a country they do not belong to?

Same way the children of pilgrims were.
Birthright
So says the constitution.

You don't like it? get it ratified. its a process...most of the branches of gov has to approve, then all the states.

Do it by force..well...we got a 2nd amendment for such events

Sorry about your health insurance. I remember when the country used to have it...sadly its all gone now....can't get it...its illegal.




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