Trump Targeting Birthright Citizenship With Executive Order

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: luthier

This has nothing to do with the 14th in case you didn't realize.

Wait? You just wrote:

Even all of you against this clause are saying it.

No need for dirty tricks.

If this is a clause solely for slavery and native Americans (which it is not. When it was made we took anybody because of all the dead from the civil war) than it needs to be amended.

What clause were you talking about if not the Citizenship Clause in the 14th Amendment?

No this is about nativism is what I am saying.

Trump is playing on the anger and emotions of the people that Congress has let our immigration policy be unenforceable, vague, and dated.

That is what I believe is the real issue.

The solution to what he is saying however comes from altering the amendment since I don't think the supreme court can say just ignore that amendment. If it doesnt apply to modern life they aren't going to make that call. It's not theirs to make. That's my prediction.

They will say the founders made the system act within the constitutional powers you are given. I hope it's very scolding as well. And unanimous

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Xcathdra

So your argument is birth right citizenship doesn't apply to anyone anymore, but it's being interpreting wrong, and doesn't need to be amended, the court is going to say "hey guys this law doesnt apply to anyone"

I am saying it doesnt apply to illegal aliens or foreign nationals.
Nothing in the 14th amendment is beiong changed.
Scotus needs to decide if the 14th applies to illegals / foreign nationals.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Um that part does and there is no way around it. The group of people the law was written for does not matter. Nor are the laws written that way. The event that caused the law doesnt have that much to do with its interpretation when they are amendments written to strengthen natural law. Which many of you forget was oir founders intent.

Who does birthright citizenship apply to in 2018? Nationals children?

That is seriously your argument?

originally posted by: luthier
Who does birthright citizenship apply to in 2018? Nationals children?

The children of mothers who give birth while in the country legally? IOW...mothers who have subjected themselves to the jurisdiction of the U.S?

Howard is credited with working closely with Abraham Lincoln in drafting and passing the Thirteenth Amendment, which abolished slavery. In the Senate, he also served on the Joint Committee on Reconstruction, which drafted the Fourteenth Amendment.

During the debate over the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, he argued for including the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof:"


[The 14th amendment] will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of person.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...


I was doing some more reading on the 14th Amendment and Sen. Jacob Howard who wrote it in 1866.

The bold is mine.

Trump may have a legitimate case.

I'm not smart enough to determine.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: luthier
Who does birthright citizenship apply to in 2018? Nationals children?

The children of mothers who give birth while in the country legally? IOW...mothers who have subjected themselves to the jurisdiction of the U.S?

So natural citizens children?

That is what you mean. It applies to Americans who have kids?

originally posted by: DBCowboy

Howard is credited with working closely with Abraham Lincoln in drafting and passing the Thirteenth Amendment, which abolished slavery. In the Senate, he also served on the Joint Committee on Reconstruction, which drafted the Fourteenth Amendment.

During the debate over the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, he argued for including the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof:"


[The 14th amendment] will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of person.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...


I was doing some more reading on the 14th Amendment and Sen. Jacob Howard who wrote it in 1866.

The bold is mine.

Trump may have a legitimate case.

I'm not smart enough to determine.

It is specifically for diplomats assuming our enemies have diplomats here at times or their countries forbid it.

a reply to: luthier

Over the last decade, I think issues regarding nationality and citizenship have been intentionally brought to the forefront for reasons we aren't privy to.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: luthier
Who does birthright citizenship apply to in 2018? Nationals children?

The children of mothers who give birth while in the country legally? IOW...mothers who have subjected themselves to the jurisdiction of the U.S?

So natural citizens children?

That is what you mean. It applies to Americans who have kids?

I said mothers who are in the country legally.

My dad lived in the U.S. for 20 years on a green card and never became a citizen. But he was here legally.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Chinese exclusion Act, and what Eisenhower did.

There's more than precident.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

Howard is credited with working closely with Abraham Lincoln in drafting and passing the Thirteenth Amendment, which abolished slavery. In the Senate, he also served on the Joint Committee on Reconstruction, which drafted the Fourteenth Amendment.

During the debate over the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, he argued for including the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof:"


[The 14th amendment] will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of person.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...


I was doing some more reading on the 14th Amendment and Sen. Jacob Howard who wrote it in 1866.

The bold is mine.

Trump may have a legitimate case.

I'm not smart enough to determine.

LOL...I just posted that on the last page: Link

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: luthier
Who does birthright citizenship apply to in 2018? Nationals children?

The children of mothers who give birth while in the country legally? IOW...mothers who have subjected themselves to the jurisdiction of the U.S?

So natural citizens children?

That is what you mean. It applies to Americans who have kids?

I said mothers who are in the country legally.

My dad lived in the U.S. for 20 years on a green card and never became a citizen. But he was here legally.

Well then the China and Russia problem being cited makes no sense most are here legally.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: DBCowboy

Howard is credited with working closely with Abraham Lincoln in drafting and passing the Thirteenth Amendment, which abolished slavery. In the Senate, he also served on the Joint Committee on Reconstruction, which drafted the Fourteenth Amendment.

During the debate over the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, he argued for including the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof:"


[The 14th amendment] will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of person.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...


I was doing some more reading on the 14th Amendment and Sen. Jacob Howard who wrote it in 1866.

The bold is mine.

Trump may have a legitimate case.

I'm not smart enough to determine.

It is specifically for diplomats assuming our enemies have diplomats here at times or their countries forbid it.

That's not what that quote says or means.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: luthier
Who does birthright citizenship apply to in 2018? Nationals children?

The children of mothers who give birth while in the country legally? IOW...mothers who have subjected themselves to the jurisdiction of the U.S?

So natural citizens children?

That is what you mean. It applies to Americans who have kids?

I said mothers who are in the country legally.

My dad lived in the U.S. for 20 years on a green card and never became a citizen. But he was here legally.

Well then the China and Russia problem being cited makes no sense most are here legally.

I don't even know what you are talking about, now.

What China and Russia problem?

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: luthier
Who does birthright citizenship apply to in 2018? Nationals children?

The children of mothers who give birth while in the country legally? IOW...mothers who have subjected themselves to the jurisdiction of the U.S?

People don't subject themselves to the jurisdiction of the United States. They are automaticaly subject to the authority and repercussions of violating, US law the moment they step on, or are born on, US soil. The USA has authority/jusidiction over everyone within its borders.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: DBCowboy

Howard is credited with working closely with Abraham Lincoln in drafting and passing the Thirteenth Amendment, which abolished slavery. In the Senate, he also served on the Joint Committee on Reconstruction, which drafted the Fourteenth Amendment.

During the debate over the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, he argued for including the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof:"


[The 14th amendment] will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of person.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...


I was doing some more reading on the 14th Amendment and Sen. Jacob Howard who wrote it in 1866.

The bold is mine.

Trump may have a legitimate case.

I'm not smart enough to determine.

LOL...I just posted that on the last page: Link

Ooops, apologies.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: luthier
Who does birthright citizenship apply to in 2018? Nationals children?

The children of mothers who give birth while in the country legally? IOW...mothers who have subjected themselves to the jurisdiction of the U.S?

So natural citizens children?

That is what you mean. It applies to Americans who have kids?

I said mothers who are in the country legally.

My dad lived in the U.S. for 20 years on a green card and never became a citizen. But he was here legally.

Well then the China and Russia problem being cited makes no sense most are here legally.

I don't even know what you are talking about, now.

What China and Russia problem?

The problem cited by trump and many which is real are citizens from hostile countries like China and Russia can get a Visa and have a kid and they become citizens..so spies for instance.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: DBCowboy

Howard is credited with working closely with Abraham Lincoln in drafting and passing the Thirteenth Amendment, which abolished slavery. In the Senate, he also served on the Joint Committee on Reconstruction, which drafted the Fourteenth Amendment.

During the debate over the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, he argued for including the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof:"


[The 14th amendment] will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of person.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...


I was doing some more reading on the 14th Amendment and Sen. Jacob Howard who wrote it in 1866.

The bold is mine.

Trump may have a legitimate case.

I'm not smart enough to determine.

LOL...I just posted that on the last page: Link

Ooops, apologies.

No, it's ok...I'm glad you posted it again.

a reply to: luthier

The problem is Trump haters didn't even read what he said.

resident Trump plans to sign an executive order that would remove the right to citizenship for babies of non-citizens and unauthorized immigrants born on U.S. soil,

Which means.

A person that thought so little of their home country comes here(ILLEGALLY) and pops out a kid will get no quarter.

Hell yeah all you constitutional Patriots must love supporting this, changing the sacred and worshipped """constitution""" with Executive Orders