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Las Vegas shooting revisited - the sounds tell the story

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posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 08:35 PM
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originally posted by: skunkape23
I am very familiar with the bark of an M-4.
Not my favorite weapon.
I'll take my Mossberg Roadblocker in any close range situation.
Long range, an FN Fal .308.


Tis a good rifle indeed. Easy to handle, compact and just down right fun to shoot.

Though the one I shot I don’t believe was an original. Almost certain it wasn’t. Still cool though.




posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 09:44 PM
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Going to drop another video that shows something really interesting. Light on the top of the Delano at the exact moment the shooting starts. Add to this the fact several choppers went off radar behind the Mandalay and could have potentially dropped off and picked up shooters on the roof. Save yourself the first 10 minutes of yapping.


So, if we had multiple shooters what if they were in 2 choppers and on top of the Delano? this is the scenario that seems most likely to me after a year of looking in to this.
edit on 29-10-2018 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 10:02 PM
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a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I'm gonna be zero helpful, but there WERE a few videos where you could hear bullets hitting people. A sickening thud/thump. It was in the longer "cut" of the girl who was at the concert with her sister who was in a wheelchair. The video itself doesn't film the scenes because the lady had kept recording while she was getting her sister out of there, but you hear her talking to her sister and you can hear her sister and at the start of that one, before they are on the move, there are some sickening thuds.

There was another one where you could hear thuds, it was one that was filmed by folks in the grass in front of the stage and to the side a bit.

I'll gonamd see if I can find them, but I think the majority of those videos are gone.



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 11:05 PM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Going to drop another video that shows something really interesting. Light on the top of the Delano at the exact moment the shooting starts. Add to this the fact several choppers went off radar behind the Mandalay and could have potentially dropped off and picked up shooters on the roof. Save yourself the first 10 minutes of yapping.


So, if we had multiple shooters what if they were in 2 choppers and on top of the Delano? this is the scenario that seems most likely to me after a year of looking in to this.


I spent HOURS looking at 15-20 videos that all had the Delano in it and there was one I found the first night where there was a strobe coming from the ~14 (or 24th, I think that building has odd flooring for some reason) floor or so that I thought matched the gun fire very accurately. I had the video open (along with about 70 other video tabs open) and finally the system hung and I had to close the browser. I never saw the exact same video but did find similar ones that showed a light in the same area but it was no where near as clear, it was like a 360x240 vs an HD recording in the original. The Delano is also much further away so that adds to the complexity of accuracy and even the power of some of these propsed rounds (at that range).

Now I wonder if there is any truth to Trump being there that night. How many have heard that? He was supposedly meeting with a Saudi (MBS or the guy who got arrested, IDK which) and this whole thing was an attempted assasination of the saudi prince (and maybe Trump), all of this might account for the helicopters.

It's also possible that what happened in the venue was to cause chaos, draw attention away from whatever was happeneing with the VIP guests or as some payback by the Saudi's MBS was trying to over-throw?? Could the attack have happened to cut off Trump's and MBS's escape route via helicopter, or make it more difficult, more likely to be seen (blow their cover), or possibly place an "agent" in the police helicopter to take a shot at the VIP's penthouse or while they are leaving/in the air in their own helicopter?


As for the sound of the bullet's hitting flesh, I'm not saying that no one got hit, but those could have been fired from anywhere, even 20-100 ft from center stage. I'm not sure what that sound could tell us in and of itself. I too did hear a few things that sounded like that but I've also heard bullets skip off certain sand, gravel, concrete and pavement that sound similar it just depends on the type of bullet, speed, angle (and if the material is wet or dry). I've heard bullets squak loud in some super white quarts sand (probably made light to on impact - not sparks - triboluminescence).



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 12:00 AM
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a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Bullets hitting flesh..... Didn't you ask for, in one of your posts, if anyone knew of videos where you could hear bullets hitting??



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 12:04 AM
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originally posted by: DigginFoTroof

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
That's because there were numerous weapons stockpiled in the room with Paddock. Including 14 ar-15s and 8 ar-10s... (10s fire a 7.62 iirc)

A2D




I didn't hear any rounds hit the ground. If you did do you remember any specific videos that had it, any links, descriptions of what was in it, even length of video possible (or key words in video title?).



??



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I think I've watched about every one of the available videos (key word here is 'available'). I was not at the scene at the time of the shooting, but I'm not sure it would have altered my opinion. Additionally, as I've noted in other threads, I've been a firearms instructor for over 30 years (gosh, almost 40 now that I think about it).

You have a number of factors involved which I'm not sure you have adequately taken into account.

1. Wind direction (even a slight wind) can have a dramatic affect on what you hear downrange from a gunshot. Even on a shot to shot interval.

2. There were (3) different caliber firearms fired by Paddock (not including the pistol), and (3) different firearm configurations. The three calibers were 5.56x45mm (.223 NATO), .223 Wylde and 7.62x51mm (.308 NATO). The three different styles of rifles were, an AR-15 style (for the 5.56x45mm and .223 Wylde), an AR-10 derivative (for the .7.62x51mm) and a bolt action in 7.62x51mm. All of these rifles and cartridges will have quite different sounds, especially down range.

3. I don't think you have taken into account the distinction between the sonic shockwave of the bullet, and the actual sound from the cartridge discharging in your analysis. These are two vastly different sounds, and they both propagate differently as well as originate for different reasons. Again, even the slightest breeze can have a dramatic affect on these two properties, especially down range. Even more, shooting position and distance of the muzzle from the window would have also played a large role in perceived sound. Even an inch or two would make a big difference.

4. The muzzle configuration and crown of the barrels on each of the different rifles was different. Just this alone will dramatically affect the differences in perceived sound. (i.e. flash hiders, etc.)

5. You can pretty much discount any sustained accuracy from the near-full-auto AR-10. Sustained full-auto fire from a .308 is nearly impossible for most people save highly trained military personnel (not to mention needing to be a pretty "bad" mo-fo to even do it). So, from this you can expect the muzzle of the AR-10 was probably jumping all over the place at different angles which would dramatically affect the sound down range.

I agree that we're not getting the full story about what happened in Vegas. I also agree there exists the possibility that there may have been more than one shooter. However, I do not think you can arrive at these conclusions based on sound alone. There were too many variables such as reflective surfaces, wind, etc.



posted on Oct, 30 2018 @ 03:08 PM
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a reply to: DigginFoTroof




I didn't hear any rounds hit the ground. If you did do you remember any specific videos that had it, any links, descriptions of what was in it, even length of video possible (or key words in video title?).


I did, lots of them in fact! I don't remember the video but it was one of the first ones to come out from the venue itself. It was widely circulated and shouldn't be too hard to find. You can distinctly hear rounds striking the pavement and other objects. It is quite common for a person downrange to confuse a bullet striking an object with the actual sound of the shot from the cartridge. There are (3) elements:

1. The sound of the cartridge discharge
2. The sonic crack (boom) from the bullet crossing the sound barrier
3. The impact of the bullet on the target (which is more of a slapping noise).

Often, because the bullet reaches the target before the sound of the shot, people think the bullet hitting the target is the sound of the shot giving the perception that more than one shot was fired.

Generally, if you're a significant distance down range (which most of the witnesses were) you don't really ever hear the sound of the cartridge itself (#1), it has been dispersed over distance. All you will hear is the slap of the bullet hitting the target (#3) and the super-sonic crack of the bullet breaking the sound barrier (#2).



posted on Oct, 31 2018 @ 08:14 PM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: DigginFoTroof




I didn't hear any rounds hit the ground. If you did do you remember any specific videos that had it, any links, descriptions of what was in it, even length of video possible (or key words in video title?).


I did, lots of them in fact! I don't remember the video but it was one of the first ones to come out from the venue itself. It was widely circulated and shouldn't be too hard to find. You can distinctly hear rounds striking the pavement and other objects. It is quite common for a person downrange to confuse a bullet striking an object with the actual sound of the shot from the cartridge. There are (3) elements:

1. The sound of the cartridge discharge
2. The sonic crack (boom) from the bullet crossing the sound barrier
3. The impact of the bullet on the target (which is more of a slapping noise).

Often, because the bullet reaches the target before the sound of the shot, people think the bullet hitting the target is the sound of the shot giving the perception that more than one shot was fired.

Generally, if you're a significant distance down range (which most of the witnesses were) you don't really ever hear the sound of the cartridge itself (#1), it has been dispersed over distance. All you will hear is the slap of the bullet hitting the target (#3) and the super-sonic crack of the bullet breaking the sound barrier (#2).



thank you, no one seems to understand proper ballistics. this is what ive been saying of all this "audio analysis" add in other relevant info ive provided. audio analysis can't tell anyone much







 
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