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Trump says deadly Pittsburgh synagogue attack would have been different with armed guard

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posted on Oct, 28 2018 @ 07:44 PM
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a reply to: chr0naut


The military and law enforcement need authorization to use deadly force.

Not if they are in fear of their life. If an officer has reason to believe you may be about to harm him, he has every right to open fire on you. If you attack the military, they do not need anyone's OK to return fire. If someone attacks me and I fear for my life, I have every right to make his body see-through.

It's notoriously difficult to prove someone was not "in fear for their life." That's why intelligent people never do anything to make people concerned. It keeps one's orifices to a minimum. That's also a good point that the guns aren't the problem... self-defense laws are so easy to invoke, the population would take a substantial nose dive if people were really trigger-happy.

That's the law. Saying it's not is just advertising a residence in the land of unicorns and fairies.

TheRedneck




posted on Oct, 28 2018 @ 08:31 PM
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No , Armed Security is there to Prevent Nuts Jobs like this from just Waltzing into a Populated Area and start Shooting People Indiscriminately , I thought you were a Smart Guy Mr. Boot Tae , guess I was Mistaken .........



posted on Oct, 28 2018 @ 10:16 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut


Do you frequently come across dead bodies lying around with guns on them in your country?

Only in Memphis, TN and Chicago, IL.

I was referring to a criminal who uses a gun, and can then retrieve the victim's gun... quite plausible if the victim is a cop.


Reducing the public availability of guns is different from removing guns from existence. It is do-able, has been done before and it works.

Ah, there it is! The goal post move. You were talking about removing all guns; now it's reducing guns.

You cannot remove all guns from society. The last ones to give up their guns will be the criminals, because they make a profit from using them.


This is how it would work:

No offense, but HItler would have been proud of you.

You are talking about a police state, where law enforcement can search and seize on a whim. That not only reduces the number of guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens, but it also increases the advantage a criminal element has and removes the ability of people like me to defend myself against threats.

Those threats are not always human... in my case, they are more likely to be a rabid animal or a hungry predator. Don't tell me animal control can handle that, because we have no animal control... heck, in a life-and-death emergency, it takes 15-30 minutes for the law to get here!

No. Just no. Over my dead body. I'd wind up dead either way anyway.


Anyone caught using a firearm in the commission of a crime will be charged with attempted murder.

Change criminal to felony and I'll agree with this one. I just don't think having a gun while removing the tag from a pillow should be charged such.


Discharge of a firearm in the possession of law enforcement officers will also be treated more seriously...

It is pretty damn serious already...

TheRedneck

I didn't move the goal posts.

I was clearly speaking about the availability of guns. Please re-read my post that you replied to.

Also, I keep reading about officers who 'accidentally' shoot a member of the public and yet remain on the force with little apparent consequence to themselves or their employment (hint, go to the ATS search, put in "officer shoots innocent" as a search string and browse a few of the resulting threads).


Training is everything. If you work in Law Enforcement... odds are you are getting less training than many of the civilians who are CCW.

Firearms training has become expensive, especially with increasing efforts of lefties trying to make ammunition costly, as a back door to firearms regulations.

Typically, Law Enforcement is at the bottom of the municipal "more funding" list. It's probably one of the most, if not the most, stressful job in America, and the pay isn't usually commensurate with the job, it's stresses and the danger involved.

Clearly Federal LEO work is the best paying... for those who can stand working inside what is often an unbelievable clusterf**k of red tape and political cannibalism. Federal work, even in LEO work, draws idiots like a moth to a flame.

For those folks not FLEO, training isn't all that great. Sheriffs Departments might be a bit better.
edit on 28-10-2018 by dasman888 because: Edits



posted on Oct, 28 2018 @ 10:31 PM
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Of course Trump will say he didn't mean it that way, therefor he is an idiot, but his statement as our President victim blaming and victim shaming is terribly evil.

"Hey families of the deceased, Donald Trump here, they would probably still be alive if they had protection, shame, what a shame they didn't think to have protection, too bad, their fault, what a shame, it didn't need to turn out this way."



posted on Oct, 28 2018 @ 10:33 PM
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a reply to: game over man



posted on Oct, 28 2018 @ 11:40 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Unfortunately ATSn made me read about white supremacy and while googling Unite the Right rally and reading about it in detail, reading all the names of the different white supremacy / neo nazi groups involved, then how many there could be in America...I realized it is very likely many of them post on here...which would explain a lot.



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 01:10 AM
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a reply to: game over man

Great...the race card.

Didnt see that coming.




posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 03:12 PM
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originally posted by: burntheships

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: projectvxn

So, this was a false flag to forward the notion of arming...everybody?


Argument from absurdity.

You know.. the basic meaning of "Armed Guards".


Where will the guards come from? It is impossible to guard everything, and historically guards haven't done much. Vegas, Parkland, and Pulse all had guards.



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: projectvxn

No, not quite right.

Armed guards cost money and make people nervous. It's not necessary to have a police state with pseudo police on every corner, in every church, in every school. A cheaper and more effective way is to simply follow the 2nd Amendment. Allow the people to bear arms freely. You get the same result, probably better since people will be protecting themselves and not just someone else for pay, with less cost. The guns don't have to be out in the open and visible, just to be known they are there if needed.

I'm going to be attacked for this, I know... but the truth is the truth.

TheRedneck


How about we all just start wearing bulletproof clothing? In schools it's easy because we could make it into fashionable school uniforms. In general life it's a little harder, but there's a lot of styles. And just think about what it will do for jump starting a vapid fashion industry that has been devoid of anything new for years now.



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 03:14 PM
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So, first of all, there is no proof it would have turned out different. Could have turned out exactly the same, or the same + one dead security guard.

Thing about live confrontation is it is very different than training. Few of the supposed 10s of thousands of security guards necessary to guard all the churches and schools (and does it stop there?) will be highly trained. They will be shooting range trained, and that's about it. Many will cringe, or flee at the first sign of live fire. Who is going to pay for all those guards?

There are many shooting events where people can carry weapons - but the number of deaths are still very high. VERY rarely does an actual mass shooting event end with an armed citizen (or an armed guard). They usually end with the shooter killing themselves.

It's easy for Trump to say "Well, should have armed guards!" Too bad that's not the actual fix.



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 03:16 PM
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I'm all for guns and armed guards but...

I'm not sure I want to live in a place where there is an armed guard every single place. Every church, every school, every store, every gym, every park, every housing development, every apartment building, every bathroom every everything.

That seems too much. The second question is obvious...who pays for all of these armed guards?



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 04:03 PM
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originally posted by: blueman12
a reply to: TheRedneck

That comes down to citizens wanting to do that. But I agree with you..Conceal carry is the best route

Next discussion and investigation should be how he obtained the guns. A lot of people seem to be avoiding that.

Open carry would be an even better route.



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 04:14 PM
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originally posted by: amazing
I'm all for guns and armed guards but...

I'm not sure I want to live in a place where there is an armed guard every single place. Every church, every school, every store, every gym, every park, every housing development, every apartment building, every bathroom every everything.

That seems too much. The second question is obvious...who pays for all of these armed guards?

Doesn't require payment. Ask for volunteers to stand at the perimeters with visible holstered pistols/revolvers to protect their fellows and the lists would always be full. Could happen everywhere including malls and schools.



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan


How about we all just start wearing bulletproof clothing?

Well, that would make the criminals have to target shoot more to be able to hit the face... or hang out in restrooms/locker rooms.

It would up the number of serious bruises/broken bones, though. Bulletproof just means it will absorb the energy of a bullet without allowing the bullet to penetrate. It doesn't prevent the force from becoming blunt force, nor will it stop armor piercing rounds. There's a very good reason even people wearing bulletproof armor are cautious approaching a shooter.

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 04:27 PM
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originally posted by: primus2012

originally posted by: amazing
I'm all for guns and armed guards but...

I'm not sure I want to live in a place where there is an armed guard every single place. Every church, every school, every store, every gym, every park, every housing development, every apartment building, every bathroom every everything.

That seems too much. The second question is obvious...who pays for all of these armed guards?

Doesn't require payment. Ask for volunteers to stand at the perimeters with visible holstered pistols/revolvers to protect their fellows and the lists would always be full. Could happen everywhere including malls and schools.


Sure and more accidents will happen. We have more accidental gun deaths than many places have homicides by firearm.

In my experience people vastly over estimate their marksmanship and readiness. Actual marksmanship to fire in dense populations is a weekly maintenance and special skill.

More cops will mistake people trying to help as the bad guy, more cops will get nervous and shoot ccl folks....the police themselves are not even adequately trained in many cases hence the heavy triggers. Ever shoot a 12 lb trigger? I sure as hell wouldn't want that as my weapon against a madman with 38 .223 and a vest full of mags.

There is no solution. The best start would be to use the school as a campus for town buildings and have the police department or station on campus. Police should also be trained to use small carbines and be screened to be competent.

Some forces allow 12 out 50 at 7 yards to pass firearms training.

There is a lot of fantasy world postulating about firearms. People who actually shoot know how much work and responsibility is and how many people in our society are not capable (but will pretend they are) to carry that weight and do the hard work to be ready and not a danger to bystanders.


edit on 29-10-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 04:37 PM
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a reply to: luthier
My grandma standing at the door with a holstered and loaded .44 is going to prevent most would-be murderers from starting anything. Visible deterrent. I don't give a crap if she can't hit the side of barn 2 feet in front of her. The killer wouldn't know that.
It wouldn't be my grandma though, it would be a system that would vet itself and likely would be someone looking like they were born for the task at hand... and still happily volunteer-based.



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 04:39 PM
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originally posted by: primus2012
a reply to: luthier
My grandma standing at the door with a holstered and loaded .44 is going to prevent most would-be murderers from starting anything. Visible deterrent. I don't give a crap if she can't hit the side of barn 2 feet in front of her. The killer wouldn't know that.
It wouldn't be my grandma though, it would be a system that would vet itself and likely would be someone looking like they were born for the task at hand... and still happily volunteer-based.








Well we know that isn't true since this very case the thread is about has 12 officers pinned down.



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 04:41 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: primus2012
a reply to: luthier
My grandma standing at the door with a holstered and loaded .44 is going to prevent most would-be murderers from starting anything. Visible deterrent. I don't give a crap if she can't hit the side of barn 2 feet in front of her. The killer wouldn't know that.
It wouldn't be my grandma though, it would be a system that would vet itself and likely would be someone looking like they were born for the task at hand... and still happily volunteer-based.







Well we know that isn't true since this very case the thread is about has 12 officers pinned down.


After the fact.



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 04:46 PM
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a reply to: primus2012

Uh huh. So in your opinion the .223 to the chest of a flak jacket as the cop was ambushed wouldn't have put him to the ground?

Sorry buddy I work with plenty of law enforcement over the years. They get ambushed all the time. There goes your theory.

Army bases with armed guards have been attacked, etc...

It's basically a flu shot. Probably 30 percent effective at best and then the issues of accidents comes to play as well. Like when grandma does draw her .44 which will most likely break her wrists.
edit on 29-10-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2018 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: primus2012

Uh huh. So in your opinion the .223 to the chest of a flak jacket as the cop was ambushed wouldn't have put him to the ground?

Sorry buddy I work with plenty of law enforcement over the years. They get ambushed all the time. There goes your theory.

Army bases with armed guards have been attacked, etc...

It's basically a flu shot. Probably 30 percent effective at best and then the issues of accidents comes to play as well. Like when grandma does draw her .44 which will most like break her wrists.


Where the heck did I even begin talking about .223?

Mass murderers aren't going to start their day at the cop shop. They are looking for hapless and helpless, not locked and loaded.



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