Are Religious Images blessed? Christ portrait Miracle in Wakefield suggests it.

a reply to: The angel of light

I am curious about your selective way to speculate what religious affiliation may be behind a thread when you don't even know its author by the way? This message can be coming from other different place by the way, one you even don't imagen.

"A prophet is not without honor"

So your other prophetic prediction threads have been debunked. Now you are saying you're "channeling".



You're getting further into "heretical" muddy waters.

Greater minds than yours told the "Roman" imposter church what to do with its teachings.

Luther

Papal Bull wiki

Pope Leo X was furious. On 15 June 1520, he issued a document called Exsurge Domine, ordering the burning of Luther's writings and threatening to excommunicate Luther if he didn't recant in sixty days. Luther's response was to burn the Papal Bull plus other Church-issued materials with which he disagreed

a reply to: cancerslug

funny how he's still portrayed as trimmed beard, long hair with blue eyes

Very much the "Roman ideal"

I couldn't imagine how well a painting of a Semite would be tolerated

a reply to: EasternShadow

But was that the "original" shroud?

wiki

There are conflicting reports on whether the shroud will return to the chapel or if it will remain in the Turin cathedral where it has been since the fire. ... Researchers determined that the blood patterns on the shroud were not consistent with a crucified person being wrapped up in the sheet.

a reply to: The angel of light

of cloth by NASA experts have revealed that the image is not made

You know who else lies in the bible?

Stop spreading Lies


www.snopes.com...

Callahan’s original analysis is not readily available, but reviews of the decades-old infrared photography examination of the piece carried out by him did not conclude that the material was metaphysical in origin. A 2010 Skeptoid item summarized Callahan’s findings less sensationally (transposing the date of the research in 1979 [PDF] with its publication in 1981), adding that subsequent analysis did not support any supernatural elements:

infrared photographs show that the hands have been modified, and close-up photography shows that pigment has been applied to the highlight areas of the face sufficiently heavily so as to obscure the texture of the cloth. There is also obvious cracking and flaking of paint all along a vertical seam, and the infrared photos reveal in the robe’s fold what appear to be sketch lines, suggesting that an artist roughed out the figure before painting it. Portrait artist Glenn Taylor has pointed out that the part in the Virgin’s hair is off-center; that her eyes, including the irises, have outlines, as they often do in paintings, but not in nature, and that these outlines appear to have been done with a brush; and that much other evidence suggests the picture was probably copied by an inexpert artist from an expertly done original.

In fact, during a formal investigation of the cloth in 1556, it was stated that the image was “painted yesteryear by an Indian,” specifically “the Indian painter Marcos.” This was probably the Aztec painter Marcos Cipac de Aquino who was active in Mexico at the time the Image of Guadalupe appeared.

a reply to: LABTECH767


Pretty sure Jehovah was miffed with the competition and wacked it into the commandments

graven image /ɡreɪvnˈɪmɪdʒ/ noun

a carved idol or representation of a god used as an object of worship.

Now is it depiction for veneration or does it become an object of worship - a fine line indeed?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

OR like this.
i.pinimg.com...
The Turin shroud was never disproved though some on this site will claim that it was.
It is NOT an icon but regarded as a holy relic the very burial cloth of our Lord which was most likely seized in the last crusade when the Venetian merchant's blackmailed the leaders of the crusade into attacking the Christian orthodox city of Constantinople instead of retaking the holy land - an act which so weakened the ailing byzantine empire that it was then unable to protect itself against the increasing incursions of the Turk's - and so they stole relic's, looted the ancient eastern Roman capital of it's treasures and brought those relic's home to western Europe were they were then used to generate wealth as cathedral's were built around them, this was so lucrative that this also spawned an age of purely fake relic's since they too made money and after all it is all about faith.

When the carbon dating of the shroud was made they made the fundamental error of dating the material SEWN into the shroud by the nun's to repair it after it had been scorched by a fire that had engulfed the cathedral and both this and the obvious smoke exposure then skewed the carbon dating result's.

Meanwhile the relic show's a winding binding to the middle finger of the left hand with a small box upon it and another upon the head near to the crown of thorn's as would have been worn by a devout Jewish guy from that period probably placed upon him by his mother or perhaps by Joseph and Nicodemus when they took his body to bury him.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

It is a fine line, but as Jesus said I shall forgive them what they do not know.
And Jesus also said it is not what goes into a man that corrupts him but what come's out of his heart.
I see a beautiful girl, she has not corrupted me but my own thought's the inherent sinful and lust's of my own nature do indeed corrupt me.
I see a statue of Jesus and I do not see Jesus in the statue but I shall remember to pray to Jesus because I have seen this reminder this does not Corrupt me.

Hmm double post.

a reply to: LABTECH767

If what you say is true then it puts a whole new meaning into Hitlers obsession with the Longinus Spear.

I have my views as to how we empower idols or even Tulpas so they do end up having "miraculous" powers.

The problem I have is that the brain is hardwired to have "beliefs" as scientist have discovered.


A good read as to what or who controls this planet - AND IT AIN'T HUMANITIES FRIEND

IMHO


www.amazon.com...
The Gods of Eden

They Came To Earth Millions Of Years Ago To Spread The Poison Of Hatred, War And Catastrophe... They Are With Us Still...

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

I actually believe that while the Spear of Destiny may exist it is probably locked away in an orthodox or catholic vault somewhere and the spear used by Charlemagne in my humble opinion is not it but as Jesus said faith can move mountains and even though we do not even have as much faith as a mustard seed just maybe the blind faith of all of those million's did somehow empower it.
But if so evil could never use it.
I always liked the scene in the indiana jones movie were the evil guy goes for the jeweled goblet but he goes for the ordinary and humble cup.

Also though we are not actually together in this thread we are joined in a way in our discussion, remember what he said "Where ever two or more are gathered in my name there I am also".
That for me is the real church, not stone building's, priesthoods or pastors but people gathering in the name of Jesus - and when they are gathered in his name there is no real need for Icon's but if you look at the video explaining there history you will understand how they are so important to so many today.

With that said if Our lord is somehow also here since we are I ask that he bless all those that have partaken of this discussion and if we are in any way wrong to show us our error's - and since we are often stiff necked to keep us on the right track and forgive us our mistakes.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

It is pretty clear for the caliber of your so aggressive replies that your motivations are not really to inform or to contribute in any constructive way in the search for the truth here, it is more to attack and destroy causes or institutions that you are definitively obsessed to defame moved by fundamentalist sectarian ideas.

I have been here in ATS since at least 5 years before you even had the chance to bring your poisonous rhetoric, this is my second decade posting threads to discuss about, people that really know the site know me and well i am pretty satisfied with the level of credibility that my statistics reflect.

I know now that I don't have your trust or your vote in anything I post but that does not keep out my good sleep, I can live with that, as a matter of fact I even don't care of your sympathy at all, your endorsement would only damage my image.

If you have so much lack of seriousness and respect talking about authentic enigmas and mysteries of the Religious experience, moreover of the paranormal phenomena as it is the Guadalupe cloth in Mexico or the Shroud of Turin in Italy, What credibility your words have?

if you bring a ridicule photographic montage to depict Christ with a fiction look that remember better the servants of Caiaphas or Annas, I don't expect your attitude would be more mature and sensate respect to me individually by the way.

If you lie all what you want about those events or have the cynicism to bring caricatures of Historic figures made in computer simulations to try to make us belief that they are better source of the aspect of Christ than his very burial cloth, of course you would do no less with me, to expect the contrary is like to think a pears tree loads apples.

You declare me Heretics??!! please don't make me laugh you are not the Pope, you don't have any moral of religious authority to decree that!!

Good Evening,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

Please do not be angry, mistakes and disagreement's between christian's only serve the enemy not our lord except in so far as he may wish to thrash his wheat.
We are all his even if we disagree.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I see a beautiful girl, she has not corrupted me but my own thought's the inherent sinful and lust's of my own nature do indeed corrupt me.

But are they your thoughts? Or the thoughts put in by another?

A simple parasite prevalent in pets - changes behaviour.

Now think back to when people didnt cook meat properly or ate pork or even ergot on bread

Maybe theres good reason to fasting like they used to do.

We tend to place emphasis through social grouping with like minded people. We all belong to groups or even some may call them cults.

After leaving Christianity I tended towards reincarnation. Now I think thats just another "control mechanism"

Maybe at the time of my death - I'll see visions - but scientists now say thats the brain releasing endorphins.

Quite the conundrum.

My fear, like most peoples, of tomorrow - is assuaged by leaving behind offspring - a biological imperative some say.

Its all good. We may or may not discover any answers after death.

And another way of thinking it is - gods need us just as much as we need them to stay relevant.





Even parasites affect the brain.

Toxoplasma gondii Infection and Mixed Anxiety and Depressive Disorder: A Case-Control Seroprevalence Study in Durango, Mexico

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

a reply to: LABTECH767

we are joined in a way in our discussion, remember what he said "Where ever two or more are gathered in my name there I am also".

Amen to that - the real church. koinonia even with iconoclasts like me

ask that he bless all those that have partaken of this discussion and if we are in any way wrong to show us our error's

I know you mean well but don't take this the wrong way, but I see that as a form of "black magic".

When you pray for someone other than yourself - you are asking for their free will to be changed or affected like a casting of a spell.

You of course will see it different.

a reply to: The angel of light

We've had these discussions before. I am not aggressive. I am no different than you. I just call Catholicism to account.

if you bring a ridicule photographic montage to depict Christ with a fiction look that remember better the servants of Caiaphas or Annas,

So a Semite had blue eyes as he is commonly depicted in Catholic Churches. Do you really care about what you write at all.

Its basic anthropology.

you are not the Pope, you don't have any moral of religious authority to decree that!!

Thats your biggest mistake. Pushing the lie that the apostolic heritage somehow rests with Rome.

Need we go into the history of the Popes and their mischievous behaviour or their cavortings throughout history?

You really want to go down that path?

We can use references and deal with facts if thats what you wish

a reply to: LABTECH767

Who says that I am Angry? to feel Anger against somebody you must first be able to take that person seriously, and believe me I don't even consider in my mind that idea.

Each one of those posts are absolutely absurd, they are no sense at all, since they actually do not refer to our discussion, they reflect a personal obsession with Catholicism, seeing it even in the reflections of light on the plate of soup that is taking at dinner.

I am Not going to spend more time trying to dignify his replies by also responding longer such absurd claims against my reputation, or the ones against the institutions he is attacking in a monologue, because it is only needed to check his style to see that the issue is in Him, not in anybody else, to discuss absurd hypotheses is not what this thread is about.

There are many Orthodox, Oriental, Eastern, Episcopalian, Mormon and Catholic readers here following my threads along years that know perfectly what to expect from me, as well as the Baptist ones that I am trying to honor with this thread in this so difficult hour they are dealing with describing the Miracle that their community have experienced in spite of their tragedy.

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

longer such absurd claims against my reputation, or the ones against the institutions he is attacking in a monologue

You hold your reputation dear. Rather like the "lofty ones".

You are referring perhaps to demonic idols of ancient times when Christ didn't even born yet.

Funny how you completely ignored being called out for denying the Trinity.

Was that your anger showing through the cracks?


Why am I not surprised by your "humbleness"


You know of course who else was called the Angel Of Light?

- The church belonged to a denomination that is ascribed to the Protestant Reform. -

Hardline sects of Protestantism condemn what they call Idolatry practices of other denominations, veneration of images.

So you didnt exactly make this thread speaking of the "miracle" only

You thought you'd tale a swipe at Protestants.

Hypocrite much?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

As for the praying, you are wrong to believe it to be black magic.
To quote from this site which itself quotes from various version's of the bible.
www.biblehub.com...
Job 42:10
10After Job had prayed for his friends, the LORD restored his prosperity and doubled his former possessions. 11All his brothers and sisters and prior acquaintances came and dined with him in his house. They consoled him and comforted him over all the adversity that the LORD had brought upon him. And each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
And Matthew 5:44
43You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

To reject grace even if it be granted by the prayer of other's for you simply because you did not ask for it is to say to God that you did not want his son to die for your sin's - but he did anyway and we DID want to be saved now did we not.
Also to call the grace of God answering a prayer for you black magic is akin to saying that God answering such a prayer is the same as Satan answering it which it most absolutely certainly is not.

And again Matthew 6:4
This is more subjective and is about good work's which by the way also includes praying for people even if they have not asked for it, in fact without them even knowing you are praying for them.
3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 5And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their reward.

But as to the parasites both physical (I have pet cat's) and spiritual you are correct there are indeed both type's but that is called resisting temptation, the desert fathers faced there temptations in caves and so too did many saint's, some temptations come from others torturing christian martyrs offering them there mortal lives if they would only recant there faith in Christ but they knew that to do so even if there captors let them live would be a death to there soul's so they instead opted to stay with our lord and I for one believe he was right there to take there hand.

Among recent saint's are these men, ORTHODOX and there are also plenty of Catholic's beheaded for Christs name sake.
www.christiantoday.com...
www.kingjamesbibleonline.org...

First and foremost remember what the Lord said.
Judge NOT lest ye be Judged.
and
Let he that is without sin cast the first stone.

originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: EasternShadow

You are really funny, with all respect but nothing you say debunk the original hypothesis suggested by the thread, to the contrary reinforces it.

Do you realize what kind of objects are you referring to?

You are calling others to use their common sense, you have talked about one of the 3 fires that historically the burial shroud of Jesus has survived!

That is of course other religious object that miracolously has survived destruction, but moreover it is perhaps the most important Holy relic of the world!!

Nothing holy with an object. Especially when such object is arguable authentic.

originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: EasternShadow
Please don't be ridiculous Raggedyman, you are loosing credibility:

I'm not Raggedyman.

originally posted by: The angel of light
a reply to: EasternShadow
The bricks can not be reduced as ashes, as a painting or a shroud certainly can, but they are visibly damaged in its original aspect, darkened by the event something didn't occur with the portrait.

It can be destroyed like the portrait. Try burn the portrait again. Let see if it's really immune to fire.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

But was that the "original" shroud?

wiki

Not my issue. My faith don't rest on an object. My God explicitly forbid idols, whether it is miracle or not. Atheist need miracle to proof God's existence. I am not an Atheist.