It seems that Darwinism becoming outdated and obsolete.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Sigh, you try and keep up with it. There are bits we are evolving away from needing neighbour.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You really do dodge around the subject field don't you? The MRCA is a theoretical construct, based on bioinformatic data. It does not imply there were not other paths life took either. What it shows is all living creatures today HAD a common ancestor at somepoint.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Yes Abiogenesis or Spontaneous Generation is a big hole in the foundation aspect of the total scientific concept of evolution.
They will always argue forever that they are completely different fields of science..... I get it, I really do, we have been going back and forth on this issue for years on ATS. So they have faith that the science will prove itself in the future.
I have faith God will take action in the future; I guess that makes us even in the faith departments.
One group has placed it in science the other in God, same deal.

Right now this represents how evolution is without Abiogenesis at making a run as a total scientific ideology.



It can't move forward, it's stuck like this car which needs it's wheels to function, Evolution needs abiogenesis for the whole package to work. If they are intellectually honest they will admit this to themselves, otherwise cognitive dissonance is creating cartoon wheels to make it go in their minds.

a reply to: Noinden

poorly engineered

Hang on a sec, where does one get a degree in "Soma Engineering"?

I mean the gist of these debates boil down to who has the bigger qualifications after their name>

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

? They're one and the same thing. In the beginning was the cyanobacteria, it created oxygen allowing speciation, adaption and natural selection for more complex life forms.

You should watch the video that is at the start of the thread
It explains very clearly that "things" just don't happen without some engineering

you mean things like god dont just happen without some engineering?

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

In this case its easy.

Jehovah/Alah is claimed to be omni-everything (powerful, present, potent etc). Thus it can make perfect beings. Life is not perfect. It is poorly designed (DNA mutates, we are not energy efficient etc). So either Gods a twat, an incompetent, or you know did not do it. I'm a plytheist, I lean to wards, that deity did not do it, and its followers are claiming it did all this, with no proof, only belief.

This is not a who has more degrees debate. It common sense, and facts.

a reply to: Noinden

Guess you must have missed the part at the very beginning of the bible which explains Gods once perfect creation
and why it isn’t anymore...

a reply to: Noinden

I like how you just called God(by his name even) out for your perception of poor design.....you are the type of person I hope has a really long life, long enough to be present when the "Great Tribulation" the bible speaks of breaks out, where God makes a point to prove that he exists. So neighbor live long and prosper.

As to the design flaw, there wasn't any, sin is linked to the physical downfall of humanity, it's why we get sick, it's why we live only around 80 years or so, and even with medical advancements the maximum is about 120. And there is nothing we can do about it because everybody has inherited this flaw.
A perfect immune system could vanquish any pathogen, and we don't have that right now.
But the bible says we will get it again read the promises in Revelation.
Why does the body create new cells that are genetically older than there predecessor when we are 70 years old.
Theoretically if the body replaced all it's cells about every 7 years with genetically the same cell, not aged ones we should in theory never die, science can't figure out why it happens.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

No I did not miss that. It is right up there with "plagarism by anticipation" as an excuse.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Neighbour, I am pretty secure in not giving a monkey's cuss about your deity. My ancestors are the ones I care about, in particular An Morrigan.

Again, the gnosis of you lot, with "it was perfect, then it was not". Convenient.

a reply to: Noinden

I stated my point. You can chill now.

And unless you've studied my bible in Ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek, you don't anything about my bible. You know about some random translations. Furthermore, there's a difference between knowing the truth, and realizing it to be true. We're all born with some fundamental truths about God written into our hearts. Some of us just don't want to realize it's there.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Yep. Like I said, I tried to keep religion out of this in the OP. Atheism does not need abiogenesis or Darwinism to survive, but it seems that insecurity is inhibiting the progression of science.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Neighbour, why do you folks always assume I am not chilled. I don't get angry or upset on line very easily.

But here we go, you are claiming special knowledge. The moment someone whips that out, you go in the kook pile. My heart tells me the Gods are Many. Prove me wrong.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Bollocks you did. You put religion right into the OP.

To quote ZNOTE: Everyone is subject to their own personal biases. Many brilliant scientists identify with atheism. Dr. Tour happens to be a Jew who converted to Christianity. This alone makes him a renegade within his own culture, let alone within his professional circles. I hope the viewer will take note of his bias, while objectively examining his arguments.

You mentioned it. That is not keeping it out of the discussion.

Lastly Evolution is not Darwinism. Learn what Darwinism is. Evolution is a theory in science. Hell learn modern Evolutionary theory.

a reply to: Noinden

Neighbour, why do you folks always assume I am not chilled. I don't get angry or upset on line very easily.

Funny, I couldn't tell.

But here we go, you are claiming special knowledge. The moment someone whips that out, you go in the kook pile. My heart tells me the Gods are Many. Prove me wrong.

The heart is be deceptive, but I'm sure the "special knowledge" of your heart is of a different quality. You're must be the exception. Its not my job to prove anything to you.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Sure you couldn't, you told me to chill. I call bollocks on that too.

You are proselytizing neighbour. After all you are positive your god is the only god. You can of course prove that right?

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Bollocks you did. You put religion right into the OP.

To quote ZNOTE: Everyone is subject to their own personal biases. Many brilliant scientists identify with atheism. Dr. Tour happens to be a Jew who converted to Christianity. This alone makes him a renegade within his own culture, let alone within his professional circles. I hope the viewer will take note of his bias, while objectively examining his arguments.

You mentioned it. That is not keeping it out of the discussion.

Lastly Evolution is not Darwinism. Learn what Darwinism is. Evolution is a theory in science. Hell learn modern Evolutionary theory.

I was being up front about Dr. Tour's religious beliefs, because I knew the non-christians would have a field day with it if I didn't. It obviously didn't diffuse any sort of cognitive dissonance.

While it may not be initially obvious, hopefully, by the end of this post, the reader will realize that this is neither an attack upon atheism, nor is it an exultation of theism, but simply a refinement of those philosophical questions.

Is the intelligent designer God (the theist view) or is it just the program from which all things emerged--an artifact of information (a possible atheist view)?

Again, I stated that none of this had to be about God or religion. But here we are. You just couldn't help yourself.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You however brought religion into this. Keeping it out of it, would be to not mention it. Thus, do not claim that you did not bring it into this. You posted first, it was there. End of story.

You can claim it has nothing to do with religion either. Nope. Nice try, no cigar. You mentioned intelelgent design, which includes creationism, which is religious. It is insepearable.

I helped myself, by pointing out Dr Tour is not an expert in the area. Phage pointed out he even says this.

So no you can't help yourself either.

Ta ta

a reply to: Noinden

I couldn't tell that you were calm, because honestly, you seem like you have a chip on your shoulder.

God hasn't given my authority to prove anything to anyone about Him. I can only tell you what I know, and you believe it or you don't. Given your attitude, I don't have to tell you anything.

Have fun derailing my thread. Its obvious to me that you're enjoying it. Like I said, I had no intention bringing religion into the discussion. I've said all I would like to say to you, "neighbor".

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

What would this chip on my shoulder be over neighbour? I debate hard, that is a trait of my spiritual path. An Fhírinne in aghaidh an tSaoil and all that jazz. We don't turn the other cheek.

I happen to be educated, and literally have bleed for bioinformatics (as well as Pharmaceutical chemistry), so I will debate hard when someone is trying to disprove something, with out any credible evidence.

You started with the atitude. You tried to build a strawman over my havind read the bible, then you shifted the goal posts by saying I have not read "your bible". That is typical of people who don't actually want to engate.

Slan leat