the TRANS debate

a reply to: Robotswilltakeover

I want to say that my own beliefs regarding the issue of gender identity have changed greatly over the last few years. I was brought up and lived 30yrs + within the framework of a very conservative Christian belief system. As such I had the typical conservative view .

But after truly pondering the matter from as neutral a perspective as I can attain...I have come to a new understanding. I believe that it is perfectly reasonable to expect trans gender or mixed gender manifestations to occur within humanity. If I look at it from even a Biblical perspective I find evidence to support the idea. One being the fact that God made it clear to Israel that..They ( Male/Female ) manifest as ONE. Lev 19:18.. Hear O Israel...The Lord our God is one. On that one verse alone I can justify their existence within my own mind.

Now couple with that the fact that Nazarites were forbidden to cut their hair...which long hair ( in the context of their existence ) was a symbol of the feminine. That at least offers plausibilty to the idea that God was trying to advance our understanding toward acceptance of non-binary manifestations. Add to it the fact that in Christ there is neither male nor female..or any other division based in the physical realm. And now I would caution anyone against slandering, provoking or in any other way causing harm or injury or threat to people of alternate gender manifestations.

I personally lean toward people of trans or mixed/alternate genders to be some of the more advanced souls among us. Yes I know reincarnation doesn't fit with the traditional Christian narrative..but there is evidence in the Bible that would support the idea.

So...The bottom line for me is. I will learn to fully accept and appreciate people of all sexual identities. That are of an honest and genuine nature. As far as how to handle some of the social integration issues mentioned.....idk. Society needs a complete overhaul right now.

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: yuppa

Yeah right. 9 times out of 10, you will notice the manish features in a woman that used to be a man, and feminine features in a man that used to be a woman. It's gross. And gender isn't mental. We're not living in the 2008-2016 era anymore, WAKE UP.

Science says GENDER is MENTAL. But hey keep denying it all the same. GENDER is What you learn to act as due to your SEXUAL ORGANS. If you do not have a open mind why even shoot your mouth off? I thought you were a LSU student shoudnt you know that?

A man is a man and
woman is a woman
Whats inbetween is a fantasy

a reply to: Robotswilltakeover

You did not respond to me on page three, you said you would,

And to prevent thread drifting away,,

a reply to: HarryJoy


But it's not up to you. The world is not dualistic; screwing with object relations i.e. pretending transgender people are "born that way" is a disgusting misrepresentation of reality.

The middle ground is the furthest that a sane person will let themselves go: show compassion for the person who experiences themselves this way, but it is the beginning of a very profound apocalypse if we pretend there is nothing behind these disturbed self-states.

We live in such a monstrously ignorant, poorly educated society, that scarcely a single person in 100 can see whats wrong with the cheesy cliche "narrowly define gender according to biology".

Your mind is emergent; which means it forms as a consequence of how your 86 billion or so neurons (16 billion in cortex; bout a billion in the midbrain/brainstem, and 68 billion in cerebellum) are organized by the relations any individual has with the environment.

This fantasy-land delusion-which-is-sure-to-punish-the-idealizer-who-ignores-facts is a very big problem.

The other day i was walking through my library, in a section in which 12 subjects ranging from modern philosophy to religion were stored; 15 books were on display, and a frightening 5 of them - 33%, were transgender themed. I was astonished and am now pretty certain there is a gnostic conspiracy of some sort pushing this deranged idea of goodness.

Knowledge is what holds reality together. If you think cell dynamics have nothing to do with feelings, your delusional. If you think symmetry dynamics between self and other aren't what shapes us, again, you're existing within a delusion - an unreal fantasy which, if the stability of the social world were taken away, would certainly generate an existential depression taht would release a sadomasochism this world has never seen.

Symmetry is nature. All LGBTQ issues arise from unresolved trauma, and yet the maniacs-in-charge like to think they can shape reality willy-nilly, as if the changing conditions of our existence wouldn't stuff a foot so deeply down our throats, that we woudl be forced to either vomit out the delusions we've committed ourselves to, or, simply commit suicide, because that is how reality works.

As Charlton Heston says before throwing the golden calf at the crowd "you either live by the law, or die by the law".

Yes, harsh. Middle ground means acknowledging their suffering, accepting their needs, but not deluding ourselves with their fantasy that they came out of their mommy's tummy with the 'wrong identity'. That is literally the polar opposite of how developmental processes are understood within the sciences. There is no identity at birth - but is created by interactions with others.

Also, as to the incredibly pretentious assertion that trans people are "more evolved"?!

Good God. Complementarity is evil, then, is that what you're saying? Even if though the very basis of your fu.cking being, from atoms on up, are made of complementary relations, you think those of us who pretend to be the other sex are more evolved!?

That is an incredibly extreme claim, especially from a person who knows dick-all about evolution.

Aye. Harryjoy, you have provided the truest representation of leftist intramundane Gnosticism that there is.

You literally seem to think there are "two" realms. There is not. The Universe is singular. There is no eternal or ein sof that is separate from time. You can't even reach such a representation, in the first place - since you need a brain - until you pass through development; and thus, do you think a traumatized person who has failed to "be known" by a caregiver will ever experience time as a part of him/her?

Numinous experiences destroy human minds with early life trauma. It overwhelms and immediately generates a feeling of 'unreality'. This is an EPIPHENOMENON. Something that exists in relation to something else: past trama from self-other interaction with caregiver, frames, and metaphorically precedes, the relation with 'eternity'.

If you understand facts and reason, then there is no room for dualistic ideas about reality; and only room for acknowledging what early life errors in interaction did to you - how it has affected you, and made the 'truth' about your eternal source feel like a massive lie.

Now, I can accept acceding rights to transgender people, since I know they are people who suffer and need social support; but I very much resent the imposition of pseudo-intellectual philosophers pretending processes don't exist. It's the ultimate insult to a persons intelligence, and right now, the whole of society is being condescended to by these maniac fanatics without any countervailing and sobering discussion about etiology. To even suggest etiology gets these fanatics either into: regurgiating of dogma and cliche, or dissociation.

It's a form of bullying that, being so incredibly unreasonable, will undoubtedly force a backlash from the non-traumatized/educated section of society.

a reply to: Robotswilltakeover

I agree, not all trans want to make a scene and bring the spotlight on themselves. Just as not all people in certain groups are on board with what is pushed in the MSM and by the overly vocal attention seekers who happen to share a label.
Yep I realise some just want to blend in and get on with their lives.

But in saying that a lot do.

I don't think anybody should come to harm for any unjustified reasons.

But in saying that I am never going to be someone that normalises what is clearly a mental illness either.

They can have a vaginal cavity, that is their choice, because it is a choice.
Who they think they are might not be a choice, it very well might be beyond their control, but the option to have their body mutilated is definitely their choice for most.
And I'm a firm believer in action and consequence.

If I make choices regarding my life even based on things that are beyond my control, then I must live with the outcomes of those choices.
e.g if I walk down the street naked I know the potential outcomes of doing so. I don't get a free pass.
Very few get a free pass. Why should these people?

If they do not want to have trouble in prison here's a tip. Don't break the law. Same for all of us.

Prison can be extremely hard for anyone, even straight males and females. It's not meant to be easy.
Having a penis won't stop you from being raped or made someones bitch if you're weak and someone targets you.
Rapes never a good thing, regardless of your appearance.

Yes, some people go to prison are innocent, or the crime is minor, like traffic violations. But # happens.
Been held in remand for a month myself. Not an experience I wish to repeat.
But for a first time in prison, I'm a nerdy guy. a big guy, but a nerdy one, I didn't get any special treatment. Only person looking out for me was me, and again just remand, was held to appear in court, not that I had committed a crime.

Why should a man with no penis get treated any different to I because they chose to have their penis removed and nothing else, because they chose to change themselves to appear female?

Because that is all they have done, changed their physical appearance, under the skin they're still a man with a man's strength.

I understand that looking like a woman might increase unwanted attention in that kind of circumstance. But hey we all know it changes the attention you get in EVERY circumstance.

So please where do we draw the line? Where do we stop with the equality and start with the special treatment?
Who determines who is trans enough to go to girl prison or boys?

If someone is trans but has a penis because they haven't 'transitioned' is it mens prison for them? No penis womens prison?
Guy has long hair, has had their beard lasered off, has a female looking head but a man's body? Men's prison for them?
What if they've started hormones, have a female looking head and breasts but still got the old tackle swinging between the legs? Still mens prison?

Or do they have to be completely female appearing. breasts and fake vagina before they get ladies prison?

Are those other trans men I mentioned not just as at risk as the one who has had the full surgery?

Or can I look like a man and just say I'm trans and go to female prison?

Where do we draw the line? Who decides? How much time effort and money do we waste on criminals determining which men go to womens prison?

Or maybe we should start building separate prison units for trans and other special groups people where those at risk can be housed, maybe we can call it protective custody..... oh wait most western prisons already have that.

Maybe we should base it on crimes? in court for parking tickets, go to female prison. Victimless crime.
In for rape, murder, or robbery mens prison. Crime where you harmed another?
(same in reverse for the ladies to men folks.)

I can have empathy for trans people. But I have to say if they are in prison for harming another they get zero damns given just as equally as the zero damns I give for gay and hetero criminals who have harmed others.

Just as they gave zero damns about their victims.

Plenty of trans people pre and post op who are sick individuals humanity wise. Pedos, rapists, murderers, violent thugs, and more just the same as gay and straight male and female criminals.
You think they should all get a easy ride on the female train because of an extra man made hole?

The worlds not perfect. We all have our issues and struggles. People want equality, then they need to be prepared for true equality, not selective equality.

We need some common sense and personal responsibility brought back into this world. Not have it decreased further.

If you "identify" as something YOU'RE NOT, it makes you DELUSIONAL, period. A DELUDED mental construct in their OWN heads.

originally posted by: yuppa
Science says GENDER is MENTAL.

Where in science does it say that? Which science source are your referring to? I can't find it and I'm keen to read up.

a reply to: LSU2018

hahah..oh yes, big time!

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: yuppa
Science says GENDER is MENTAL.

Where in science does it say that? Which science source are your referring to? I can't find it and I'm keen to read up.

www.sciencedaily.com...

Gender identity( IN OTHER WORDS thats MENTAL)

Oh and dont forget Pschologist and the studies they have also done.

a reply to: Astrocyte

Simple question begging a simple answer...do you believe that God can manifest as a singularity ? Would that singularity be male or female or both ? You can't deny the existence of Hermaphrodites...which gender are they supposed to view themselves as ?

If I see a person that I am unable to distinguish which gender they are...is it their fault for confusing me or my fault for not reconciling my mind with it ? Or am I supposed to say that they are traumatized and confused about what they should be ? It is absolutely impossible for them to be mentally sound and stable and to manifest as such ? That is what you have made so blatantly clear.

You go down on record as saying that it is absolutely impossible for a sane mentally stable person to choose to manifest themselves in a gender neutral manner ?? And yes...I understand that you will simply say that the fact that they manifest as such is all of the evidence needed....to which I would say ....that is arrogance of highest and most dangerous order.

I entertain the idea that there're higher orders of life which are gender neutral...The scriptures say that the angels neither marry or are given in marriage...this hints to gender neutrality to me. If such is the case..is it not reasonable to assume that we can adopt a gender neutral view regarding some of the human manifestations here ?

Now..I will not say that every case is authentic or genuine. Like every segment of society there are individuals that appear to bring contempt on their respective segments..almost as though their sole purpose is to sow discord.

a reply to: Astrocyte

originally posted by: yuppa

There's nothing in that article that says science claims gender is mental. At all. You've misread that article, either accidentally or intentionally.

Gender identity( IN OTHER WORDS thats MENTAL)

Now you've changed what you originally said. You said "Science says GENDER is MENTAL". It doesn't. That article says,

...there is increasing evidence of a biological basis for gender identity that may change physicians' perspective on transgender medicine and improve health care for these patients

That doesn't say gender is mental. It's suggesting that gender identity might be biological. No where does it say gender is mental.

Are you saying there's a difference between sex and gender? If so, I disagree and say they are the same. The 'gender identity' issue is part of the precious snowflake movement to try and state everyone is special and unique and different.

People born with male genitalia and an X and Y chromosome are male. People born with female genitalia and only X chromosomes are female. You can try to pretend otherwise, but it doesn't make it true.

Oh and dont forget Pschologist and the studies they have also done.

Which studies?

a reply to: noonebutme

Ok lets break this down. Identity. What is that? Usually its who you yourself THINK you are. you know the whole I think therefore I am stuff.

Biologically speaking Your brain tells you from what your body looks like how to percieve yourself and how you act.

So Biological Gender identity itself has to do with MENTALITY that comes from your perception of your SEX(genitals)

Obviously you are not actually wanting to learn anything and just as your avatar suggest refuse to even try.

originally posted by: Robotswilltakeover
Are you going to DNA test every woman you meet?

Been married for 15+ years, but if I had to reenter the dating scene, considering the current environment... DNA test? No, but I would absolutely ask, even if I had no reason to suspect. Doing this would also weed out the crazies who might get offended that I would ask or even care if they were (I would never choose to date someone who was 'radical pro-trans'.

Would you consider yourself "gay" if you found out that a "woman" you had sex with had XY-DNA?

Having zero experience, I currently believe I would be able to tell. But, if I couldn't, and found out afterward, I would treat it the same as if I'd been physically assaulted, maybe even raped - but I certainly wouldn't consider myself 'gay'.

a reply to: AtomicKangaroo

Common misconception that trans still have the strenght of a male. It depends on how long they have been on hormones to be correct. Muscle mass decreases from the use or hormones.

a reply to: yuppa

however you cut it trans are artificially created. The new drugs and augmentations to make themselves look female. If looking at the total number of trans only a minute fraction might pass for female without closer scrutiny.

There are two genders. Thats it. No more options. Everything else is identity issues.

If a person thinks they are a hedgehog you give them a mirror and a picture of a hedgehog and let them work it out. If they cant, that is a mental disorder.

A person of one gender cannot simply say, ""I think I am the other gender," and suddenly become that gender. You can have surgery, you can have hormone therapy, you can dress differently, you can behave differently. But in the end, no matter how hard you try, you have not become the other gender. You are still, and always will be, a version of your original gender that has been modified to appear as the opposite gender.