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Which bathroom should this person use?

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posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:42 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

And how would the law ever establish such without examination?

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like one, it should use the duck's bathroom, simple.

Only problem that guys going to have is if he broached the subject of his sex, else people will pretty much assume him to be a dude, toilet dilemma solved really, laws be darned.




posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:44 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake

That is the bottom line, isn't it? the law is pretty much unenforceable in most instances, so why have it? It just makes the US legal code thicker.

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: interupt42


Why is getting them appropriate help in a hospital absurd and disgusting? transgender people have a very high suicide rate even after transforming.


The causes of driving a transgender person to suicide can vary. It may be from gender dysphoria itself to stigma and discrimination from friends and family. Respect from friends and family has been shown to decrease suicide rate.

My friend told me that if she didn't transition should would have killed herself. She says her support group is why she is here today. This isn't some fringe story or a special case. It repeats itself. Over and over again. It's common for transgender people.

Since converting someone from being transgender to not being transgender doesn't work (just like all kinds of conversion therapy), what you are effectively proposing is placing transgender people in mental hospital until they die, which itself is a death sentence. This is what any statement about placing transgender people in a mental hospital amounts to and really means.

And for those who discover they are transgender, then they won't come out to society, they will simply deal with it until they die. Or kill themselves. Then you have transgender people killing themselves who you didn't even know were transgender.

Needless to say, I don't want my friend to kill herself or be locked up in mental hospital (concentration camp - ever been to one?) until she dies of old age or kills herself.

What you are proposing will literally kill transgender people and yet you are comparing transgender people with someone who is a killer. Ironic.

The solution is that if someone is suffering from suicidal thoughts, transgender or not, then they can be placed in mental hospital. This is common sense.

Transgender people should be able to access mental health professionals on their own accord (i.e. outside of a "mental hospital"). As, if someone who thinks they are trans asks someone who is trans on what to do, then usually they are told "go see a therapist". Then they can receive treatment (simply talking or hormone replacement therapy if it is deemed necessary by a professional) and should be respected by friends and family, so hopefully they can be productive members of society, as they are perfectly capable of being. This is common sense.


Nice deflection but It wasn't a comparison to a killer it was a comparison to an individual that feels and associates as a werewolf and likely suffers from a mental disorder called . lycanthropy


Fine, but the person who had lycanthropy was also a killer, you could have used someone who had lycanthropy and was not a killer.

There is some debate whether transgender people have the same physiology as non-transgender people. Something something testosterone in womb (example).
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posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:47 AM
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Maybe it's best for trans make sure to get out all their poops & pees before leaving the house.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:47 AM
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a reply to: C0bzz

judging by how he or she is ripped, I wouldn't like to be the person who corrects him on which bathroom to use.

As Jeff Goldblum famously said in Jurassic Park "when you've gotta go you've gotta go" and i'll stick to that.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:52 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake
Totally agree, that's exactly how it works in Britain. Quite a high trans population in my area because people are chilled about it. I know that from professional experience in a different career life and also just day to day walking in town.
The US seems to have it's panties in a twist about it for silly reasons which we don't experience here.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it uses the ducks toilet.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:57 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

We don't seem to have such a problem here in the UK. Agree about the duck thing. It's just Americans being silly rather than just pragmatic like us Brits.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: WalterTilley

There are still plenty of places that dont have baby changing stations in mens restrooms, you know what people do? They adjust accordingly, they petition the stores to change their policy if they want their patronage, it's called adulthood. They dont ask daddy government to make people accommodate them. If it's a big enough issue then surely it would be a profitable market for someone to tap into.

Pro-tip, if you think the President has the propensity to be an authoritarian you probably shouldn't push for legislation for special interest or identity groups during his term. Its much easier to curtail or amend existing legislation to suit your purpose than it is to create it.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 11:09 AM
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Who wants to use a public hoop?

I just uploaded a pic exhibiting "Public Hoop•ness" It clearly shows what is what...

I took Woodshop in HS and am a computer neophyte..



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 11:10 AM
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originally posted by: C0bzz
This is a thought experiment and I am genuinely interested in that answer for the members of ATS.



This person has a vagina. Which bathroom should they use?


here is a question for you ,that is very important in the thought process. Where does he/she go to the potty now?



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: C0bzz




The causes of driving a transgender person to suicide can vary.

It varies for every case and not only transgenders, but transgenders are effected as group higher than normal when it comes to suicide.



what you are effectively proposing is placing transgender people in mental hospital until they die, which itself is a death sentence.


Never said such a thing.

However, someone who is suffering dealing with transgenderism should definitely be getting the appropriate resources and assistance they need. Do you not agree?




Needless to say, I don't want my friend to kill herself or be locked up in mental hospital until she dies of old age or kills herself.

Neither do I . You appear to think that I have no concern for people who are transgender which is completely not the case.

I actually feel very much for them and how difficult it must be to deal with such a disorder thing. Hence I question how politics has influenced the medical treatment and if its really the best thing for transgenders and society?

In reality, I have no problems with transgenders besides politics throwing it down our throats as an open and shut case and closed for discussion.




What you are proposing will literally kill people and yet you are comparing transgender people with someone who is a killer.

Again I'm proposing no such thing, Actually I haven't even proposed anything. I actually don't claim to have the right answer for it all.

In my world I don't care what you associate as long as you do no harm to others, whether you feel like you are Women in a mans body or a Man in a warewolfs body.

However, I do like to question things and look at things from all sides to understand it better. Hence why I brought up the comparison of someone that feels like a werewolf and a Male that feels like a women. So why is one a mental disorder and the other one not?

I also find it interesting how society reacts to things that have been politicized and put themselves in a nice little box provided by their political party (note: not targeted at you)

Like I said i don't have the answers nor claiming that is should be labeled a mental disorder , but I'm not completely convinced that its NOT a mental type of disorder either. Politics has certainly muddied the waters.


edit on 261031America/ChicagoTue, 23 Oct 2018 11:26:10 -0500000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: network dude

That probably depends on where he works.


A 2009 report co-authored by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and the National Center for Transgender Equality found that 97% of transgender people had been mistreated at work in some way, including being denied access to an appropriate bathroom or being removed from contact with clients.


www.marketwatch.com...



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Fact is if you don't know what toilet to use then you should not really be out in public unattended.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 11:29 AM
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I need to sleep.


originally posted by: CADpro
Maybe it's best for trans make sure to get out all their poops & pees before leaving the house.


Typically, people use the bathroom between 4 and 13 times a day (googled it). Given most people sleep about 7 hours, that's between once every 90 minutes to once every 4 hours.

So either you hold it in a lot (bad for your kidneys), need to see a doctor (kidney failure?) or you rarely leave the house (I'm only joking). Or you're suggesting that transgender people don't leave the house or stay within about an hour of home at all times.

Unworkable and against human rights. Transgender rights are human rights.
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posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 11:40 AM
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a reply to: C0bzz

Mine?



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: C0bzz

If a business, any business wants to cater to that then fine. Anything government related no. It does not matter what they look like. If they have a vagina they are female if they have a penis they are male.

Also the examples you give are ridiculous. No one would question what they are so they could use a stall in stealth and no one would be the wiser.

This is as always the most ridiculous argument and non issue that has really ever existed and it will get you or your supporters little to no votes in this upcoming election. As a matter of fact it makes me far less likely to vote for anyone that supports or pushes your agenda - which in the end is normalizing mental illness - including pedophillia.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: oldcarpy
Yes pragmatism, it's not like I've even heard a UK story where a trans person has raped someone in a public toilet. I read of cis males raping people in toilets though, no need to wear a dress to sneak in if you are of the rapist type.
Public toilets are a potential danger anyway, trans people would be the least of my worries if I was female or lone child.
I don't get this big argument in the US, it seems silly when I live in a world where you look like a duck quack like a duck then use the ducks toilet.



edit on 23-10-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

the point is, this person must have used a public restroom in the past. And based on appearance alone, unless you either forcefully undressed him/her, or he/she flat out broadcasted the vagina thing, not one person on earth would ask a question if this person used the men's room.

So it seems unless this person really wants to bring their personal choice into the open and have people argue about it, then shutting up and pissing where he/she has been doing it for years would be the appropriate choice. As I said, unless this is a drama queen.

Why is that so hard?

And the trans community is always quick to point out that trans folk don't rape anyone, so there shouldn't be any issues with that, if there ever was, then THAT would be the appropriate time for this discussion. Till then, it seems the only reason to bring it up, is to be a drama queen.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 12:07 PM
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When I go to concerts, women use the men's room all the time. Shorter lines. Nobody cares.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 12:08 PM
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a reply to: interupt42


It varies for every case and not only transgenders, but transgenders are effected as group higher than normal when it comes to suicide.

Absolutely.


However, someone who is suffering dealing with transgenderism should definitely be getting the appropriate resources and assistance they need. Do you not agree?

Absolutely.


Again I'm proposing no such thing, Actually I haven't even proposed anything. I actually don't claim to have the right answer for it all.

In my world I don't care what you associate as long as you do no harm to others, whether you feel like you are Women in a mans body or a Man in a warewolfs body.


Awesome.

Also, I won't necessarily respond to anything I agree or disagree with, only the parts where I think we can have discussion.

Don't worry, I don't actually think you want to kill transgender people, but I do like to point out the result of certain views or wordings.


Hence why I brought up the comparison of someone that feels like a werewolf and a Male that feels like a women. So why is one a mental disorder and the other one not?


Whilst I don't claim to speak for all transgender people, from what I understand it's more that they feel they cannot associate with being the gender they were assigned at birth and suffer from gender dysphoria.

Gender Dysphoria is a mental illness.


The American Psychiatric Association permits a diagnosis of gender dysphoria if the criteria in the DSM-5 are met. The DSM-5 states that at least two of the following criteria for gender dysphoria must be experienced for at least six months' duration in adolescents or adults for diagnosis:[18]

- A strong desire to be of a gender other than one's assigned gender
- A strong desire to be treated as a gender other than one's assigned gender
- A significant incongruence between one's experienced or expressed gender and one's sexual characteristics
- A strong desire for the sexual characteristics of a gender other than one's assigned gender
- A strong desire to be rid of one's sexual characteristics due to incongruence with one's experienced or expressed gender
- A strong conviction that one has the typical reactions and feelings of a gender other than one's assigned gender

In addition, the condition must be associated with clinically significant distress or impairment.[18]

en.wikipedia.org...


Thus, the aim should be to cure themselves of gender dysphoria (or reduce it so it no longer causes impairment or significant distress).

How do you treat it? Psychotherapy and sometimes transitioning. If they transition and are successful in becoming no longer "significantly distressed" or "impaired", then I would consider them no longer mentally ill.

Maybe it would be good if there were other successful ways of reducing gender dysphoria, but from what I understand it's notoriously difficult to manage and it might simply (probably?) be the way they are (the causes are not totally known), in which case depriving them of treatment is screwing them over (and it's their bodies to do with what they like IMHO).

May I ask why you think the treatment has become politicized?
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