It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Trump Proposes To Restore Federal Definition Of Gender As Either A Male Or A Female NO EXCEPTIONS

page: 15
80
<< 12  13  14    16  17  18 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 09:07 AM
link   
a reply to: TrueBrit

Common sense does through.


Same with toilets really, common sense that is.

People don't know what toilet to use probably best to stay home and use there own.




posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 09:08 AM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

Oh okay, so if you can imply that all transgender people are violent, then I can claim that all white people are racist storm fronters. Makes sense.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 09:35 AM
link   
a reply to: andy06shake

For a start, common sense has not been common at all for most of recorded history, and the people who actually express common sense, understand that biology is best understood by biologists, and you will not find a biologist who would deny the existence of a third gender, or gender-state. You will find countless religious fundamentalists, fascists, bigots, phobics, and other notable purveyors of lies and nonsense, to do the idea down, but you will not find anyone qualified in the fields of genetics or biology to any significant degree, who does not understand and accept the existence of the intersex conditions which render the binary understanding of gender and sex totally and utterly unfit for purpose.

You can cut this anyway you like, but again, reality is what it actually is, not a product of the way you personally perceive it.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 09:42 AM
link   
a reply to: TrueBrit

Reality is exactly how one perceives it to be, cant be anything else.

The reality is i don't see any other animals on the planet that perform elective surgeries down to them being confused over what they are.

Each to there own i suppose, but you simply can't change the sex you are born(Human anyway) no matter what you remove or what chemicals you choose to take.

A Man is still a Man even with fake breasts and a viagina, no matter the toilet he cares to use and vice versa, simple.
edit on 23-10-2018 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 09:51 AM
link   
a reply to: andy06shake

I don't see any other animal that has built a rocket ship and stepped foot on the moon either!!!
and although the other animals on this planet have never developed the skill to be able to change their sex, humans have developed the stupidity to inadvertently change it for them by polluting their habitats!!!





Each to there own i suppose, but you simply can't change the sex you are born no matter what you remove or what chemicals you choose to take.


but not everyone is born fitting into your male/female model!!!
who do you think were the guinea pigs that were used to perfect the medical care needed to transform a man into a women to begin with!!



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 09:57 AM
link   
a reply to: dawnstar

Look, mate, i cant think im a block of cheese, but the fact is that it does not make me cheddar.


People can choose to do as they wish to their own bodies, that's there right, and i pitty a world where anything else is otherwise.

People might all be products of society, but they are born as they are.

That's just how nature and biology role on planet Earth.

edit on 23-10-2018 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:05 AM
link   
a reply to: notsure1



That made me laugh hysterically ... well done!



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:07 AM
link   
a reply to: andy06shake

If you really think that reality is as you perceive it, then I suppose you can see the atoms of which you are most certainly made, can perceive the layer of bacteria which is growing on your skin and the passage of neutrinos through your body?

Oh wait, no, you can't. Yet, they are most certainly things that happen, things that exist.

I should not be shocked at the lengths some people will go, to deny science, no matter the realm of study. I cannot help be appalled by it though. The sheer arrogance of it is staggering, and would be amazing if not for its utter predictability. You may as well say that the Earth is flat, simply because you cannot see its curvature from sea level. It makes exactly as much sense, as your argument. Its still false, but it makes the same kind of sense, i.e. none.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:08 AM
link   
a reply to: dawnstar

You bring up very important questions. I would hope that these issues would be first and foremost in the minds of those making recommendations and decisions.


it kind of seemed rather clear that it would be defined as either male, or female.. there seems to be only two options available.


That was clearly how it is being reported, but we have no idea what the end result will be. There seems to be at least some consideration for intersex folks though.


we're only just beginning to understand all the factors that makes a person male, or female, or some other option not yet realized. 


I disagree. I think what we're learning is that our "sex" and "gender" represents nothing but our physical body type, and has little to do with who we are. Everyone is a unique combination of physical and environmental factors creating the whole.


while it seems rather clear to me that by making this such a black and white issue of male or female, according to the genitalia at birth, you are cutting off gov't services to those intersex babies who are neither clearly male or female at birth...


This is one of the problems created by conflating the actual physical (medical) issues of intersex people with mental/emotional issues of trans people. Their needs are very different and therefore so are the appropriate medical treatments.


... at least till the parents make a decision as to what sex the child should grow up being.


Unless medically necessary, such surgeries should be halted. And when it is medically necessary, I would think we have enough research into chromosomes, etc., that health providers could better determine which "gender" is most appropriate for that individual. Or perhaps determined by the individual's best chance to procreate.


I am also wondering if by making it so for "medical purposes" as a previous poster has been quoted as saying (not sure if that is part of their plan or not) might complicate the medical care that these intersex people (many who are really unaware that they are) might find themselves needed at some future time. 


Again, this is why the medical issues of intersex people should not be conflated with self identifying trans people. Their medical needs and treatments are very different


and will this slow down the research that is providing the answers to how and why we are the sex we are, and why sometimes body, mind, and dna, just don't match up with each other?


I think we already have that answer -- i.e., gender means nothing more than the physical realities -- people just don't want to accept it.


...with no exceptions allowed... like he has a partial uterus that has just been activated within his body.. be less accommodating to his needs, would it force the healthcare system to be less accommodating to them?


Again, this is why intersex folks have to be addressed separately from trans folk. Their medical issues and treatments cannot be conflated with trans issues and treatments.


and, would it force the parents to decide what sex the child should be before they feel they have the knowledge to make the best decision for the child?


Parents should only be making such a decision under medically necessary circumstances, and even then they should be armed with the best medical research available to make the best choice.


and, have to ask, why shouldn't society be pushed to accept this child as they were born instead of forcing a change on them to make them something they were born as? 


I don't think society is the big problem for intersex people. Prior inappropriate medical decisions may have put them in a difficult position. But people can be educated about the physical medical issues they are challenged with.
edit on 23-10-2018 by Boadicea because: Formatting



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:10 AM
link   
a reply to: andy06shake

not every baby born can be indentified as a male or a female!!!
that is my point! look past the transgenders and you have people who were born with misformed genitals from both sexes, you have men who may have spent their early childhood as males, even their parents didn't think they were anything else, but then the boy has a period, because there's a partial uterus within his body! you have young boys who's parents had a choice as to the sex of their child at birth because they weren't fully one or the other, who without even knowing of their past medical history of being transformed into a male will insist that they are girls.
whatever policy our gov't comes up with, it has to accommodate these people also!!!
and the either they are a boy, or they are a girl determined by their genitalia at birth, no exceptions does not! neither does it if they include dna as an indicator.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:17 AM
link   
a reply to: TrueBrit

For all intents and purpose, the reality you perceive is only one that exists.

Science can be rather arrogant also, just a thought.

I can see the horizon through or stick a lollypop in the ground and watch the angle of the sun change thus determine the Earth is not flat, same as i can look down see my tackle and establish i am a Man.

Ive no problem with science just politically correct stupidity and attention seeking which is what all this gender dysmorphia amounts to really.

People are what they are, creation or otherwise.

Show me a Man that can gestate and spit out a baby and ile eat my words, until then we are one or the other im afraid.


edit on 23-10-2018 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:18 AM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea




I disagree. I think what we're learning is that our "sex" and "gender" represents nothing but our physical body type, and has little to do with who we are. Everyone is a unique combination of physical and environmental factors creating the whole.

neither male or female will clearly identify a teenage boy who suddenly starts having a period because there is a partial uterus in their body. that is a completely different body type, which if discovered before the child becomes a teen might be a relevant fact to put on medical records just in case that partial uterus starts causing severe health problems later.

it's not a matter of who we choose to be with them, it's what's they are and do we acknowledge them as they are, or not.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:25 AM
link   
a reply to: andy06shake

Its not a matter of political correctness. Its a matter of accepting that intersex conditions exist whether you like it or not, that not all of their symptoms are perceivable unless you happen to be looking at the chemical level, ANNNND that since those conditions exist, your perceptions of reality are wrong and need to change.

That's not political correctness, that's accuracy, there is a massive difference.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Boadicea

Oh okay, so if you can imply that all transgender people are violent, then I can claim that all white people are racist storm fronters. Makes sense.


Nope. I have consistently distinguished the autogynephiles from the rest of the movement. I have said many many times that not all transgender are created equal. I do not and have not blamed all for the vile behavior of others.

You are the one who refuses to call out the vile and violent misogynistic behavior, and instead present all trans identifying males as the sweet and pretty little "girls" who couldn't and wouldn't hurt a fly.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:30 AM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

What I fight for, is not penalizing the peaceful transgender folk who just want to use the restroom they fit best in, or don’t want to be fired just for being transgender, or don’t want to be rejected for housing just for being transgender. Just like gun rights people don’t want all the peaceful gun owners to be penalized for the actions of the criminals who do bad things with guns.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:37 AM
link   
a reply to: TrueBrit

So say i get my tackle removed and some kind of setup installed to fire out eggs, does that mean im a chicken, or just a mad bastard with some strange junk in my trunk?

My perceptions are my own just like yours are your own, there is no wrong or write, only what we assume to be our reality.

And the reality is the majority of us are either male or female, we simply don't get to choose.



edit on 23-10-2018 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:41 AM
link   
a reply to: dawnstar


neither male or female will clearly identify a teenage boy who suddenly starts having a period because there is a partial uterus in their body. that is a completely different body type, which if discovered before the child becomes a teen might be a relevant fact to put on medical records just in case that partial uterus starts causing severe health problems later. 


Of course!!! We'll see what Team Trump eventually proposes, but I do think there should be a third designation to properly serve the best interests of these people. It could very well save their life. And, therefore, to do otherwise could kill them.


it's not a matter of who we choose to be with them, it's what's they are and do we acknowledge them as they are, or not.


I'm really not sure what you mean by this; hopefully my above comment answers it.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:42 AM
link   

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: andy06shake

You may as well say that the Earth is flat, simply because you cannot see its curvature from sea level. It makes exactly as much sense, as your argument. Its still false, but it makes the same kind of sense, i.e. none.



The Earth is flat. Otherwise my dinner would roll off the floor!




posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:57 AM
link   
a reply to: TheWisestCumbrian

Floors must be spotless in your gaff then.


Shes an oblate spheroid for the time being.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 10:58 AM
link   

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Boadicea

What I fight for, is not penalizing the peaceful transgender folk who just want to use the restroom they fit best in, or don’t want to be fired just for being transgender, or don’t want to be rejected for housing just for being transgender.


And as long as you refuse to denounce and condemn such abuse and violence within your ranks, to loudly and proudly declare such abusers have NO PLACE in your movement, you are also fighting FOR THEM.

I have no problem with folks who refuse to conform to society's gender norms. Get the violent and narcissistic misogynists out of the picture and the peaceful folks who aren't a threat to the rest of us and just want to live their lives in peaceful co-existence will be treated accordingly.







 
80
<< 12  13  14    16  17  18 >>

log in

join