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Trump Proposes To Restore Federal Definition Of Gender As Either A Male Or A Female NO EXCEPTIONS

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posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 06:25 PM
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Boy, this thread is missing the MAIN POINT. There are differences between the term "sex" and the term "gender."


"Sex" tends to relate to biological differences. For instance, male and female genitalia, both internal and external are different. Similarly, the levels and types of hormones present in male and female bodies are different.



In some cases, a child is born with a mix between female and male genitalia. They are sometimes termed intersex, and the parents may decide which gender to assign to the child. Intersex individuals account for around 1 in 1,500 births. Some people believe that sex should be considered a continuum rather than two mutually exclusive categories.

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

This is what Trump and the Department of Health and Human Services wants...to have only two exclusive categories for the "Sex" of a person. Any abnormality at birth, that results in a problem identifying the sex of a baby, would involve genetic testing. Any personal ID would have either "male" or "female" listed. In no way would this affect, or change how a person feels about their "gender." We shouldn't ID a person based on their "gender" because it's fluid and changes.


“The sex listed on a person’s birth certificate, as originally issued, shall constitute definitive proof of a person’s sex unless rebutted by reliable genetic evidence.”

www.nytimes.com...


"Gender refers to the socially constructed characteristics of women and men, such as norms, roles, and relationships of and between groups of women and men. It varies from society to society and can be changed."



Gender roles are not set in stone. In many societies, men are increasingly taking on roles traditionally seen as belonging to women, and women are playing the parts previously assigned mostly to men. Gender roles and gender stereotypes are highly fluid and can shift substantially over time.

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

People in America are and will continue to be free to live their lives however they like. If a man wants to live his life as a woman, or vice versa, then fine...so be it. Transgenders won't be "defined out of existence," nor should they ever be discriminated against. We're not talking about changing the way a person "thinks about their gender" or changing how a person dresses or live their lives. We're talking about limiting the term "sex," to either that of a male or female, for ID and medical purposes.

Let us pretend people are "cars" and that they're only two MAKES: FORDs and CHEVYs. Each MAKE has many MODELS that are very popular and great vehicles. There are Mustangs, F-150s, Edges, Corvettes, Camaros, Impalas, Silverados, etc. People are free to be whatever "model" they want and they'd be free to have fun tearing up the roads across America. It doesn't matter if you are a "FORD," but think you're a "Corvette ZR1" or "Camaro." That doesn't change the "MAKE" of car you are, which is listed on the Title.

So, how will Transgender lives be impacted? The fact is...They won't. Transgenders will still exist and be free to live their lives based on the gender role they identify with. It's just that the LGBT community wants to eliminate using the "MAKE" designation for ID purposes and use only the "MODEL" designation. The government wants to simplify this, by reverting back to when a person's sex was grounded in science and not based on gender identity. Even though you were born a "FORD," you still can live your life as a "Corvette ZR1." So, please explain to me, what all the turmoil is about, concerning such a small percentage (less than 2%) of America's population?




posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 06:34 PM
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originally posted by: Justoneman
I knew a Hermaphrodite born with both parts. After all, they do exist. This one his parents had decided he would be a man since he had a penis and kept it with some hormone treatments he grew up to be a man. If that guy ever turns out gay, I would say that was very biologically natural.

.

Why didn't the parent just let nature take it's course.

Grows tits= Woman with a tadger. Grows Beard=Man with Spadger.



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 06:36 PM
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originally posted by: Lysergic
Haha.

These old ladies get flustered so easily.


Lol @ kayla epic triggering.


Haha


Saw this person saying some pretty racist things about balack people's hair just last week or so. Posts were removed by mods.



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 06:36 PM
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originally posted by: Justoneman
I knew a Hermaphrodite born with both parts. After all, they do exist. This one his parents had decided he would be a man since he had a penis and kept it with some hormone treatments he grew up to be a man. If that guy ever turns out gay, I would say that was very biologically natural.

The Gay way I think is a lifestyle. My niece is gay and some life long close friends I have. I am a sincere listener/dialogue to each person I meet similar to my opinions on here and the love me for who I am.

They do think they were born gay. While, I think they "were introduced to it. And that in a way, they "both started grooving" has more to do with it than anything. They did it once, twice, a few more maybe and ok it is who they are, no going back. I have learned to understand in a good way for communicating with them , what their ways really are. Maybe, because I love them as friends and family. Just like one does who means it.


Jeeso man, You talk like gay people are from another world.



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Justoneman
I knew a Hermaphrodite born with both parts. After all, they do exist. This one his parents had decided he would be a man since he had a penis and kept it with some hormone treatments he grew up to be a man. If that guy ever turns out gay, I would say that was very biologically natural.

.

Why didn't the parent just let nature take it's course.

Grows tits= Woman with a tadger. Grows Beard=Man with Spadger.


Probably to attempt to give the child a normal life.



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 07:37 PM
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originally posted by: shawmanfromny
Boy, this thread is missing the MAIN POINT. There are differences between the term "sex" and the term "gender."


"Sex" tends to relate to biological differences. For instance, male and female genitalia, both internal and external are different. Similarly, the levels and types of hormones present in male and female bodies are different.



In some cases, a child is born with a mix between female and male genitalia. They are sometimes termed intersex, and the parents may decide which gender to assign to the child. Intersex individuals account for around 1 in 1,500 births. Some people believe that sex should be considered a continuum rather than two mutually exclusive categories.

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

This is what Trump and the Department of Health and Human Services wants...to have only two exclusive categories for the "Sex" of a person. Any abnormality at birth, that results in a problem identifying the sex of a baby, would involve genetic testing. Any personal ID would have either "male" or "female" listed. In no way would this affect, or change how a person feels about their "gender." We shouldn't ID a person based on their "gender" because it's fluid and changes.


“The sex listed on a person’s birth certificate, as originally issued, shall constitute definitive proof of a person’s sex unless rebutted by reliable genetic evidence.”

www.nytimes.com...


"Gender refers to the socially constructed characteristics of women and men, such as norms, roles, and relationships of and between groups of women and men. It varies from society to society and can be changed."



Gender roles are not set in stone. In many societies, men are increasingly taking on roles traditionally seen as belonging to women, and women are playing the parts previously assigned mostly to men. Gender roles and gender stereotypes are highly fluid and can shift substantially over time.

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

People in America are and will continue to be free to live their lives however they like. If a man wants to live his life as a woman, or vice versa, then fine...so be it. Transgenders won't be "defined out of existence," nor should they ever be discriminated against. We're not talking about changing the way a person "thinks about their gender" or changing how a person dresses or live their lives. We're talking about limiting the term "sex," to either that of a male or female, for ID and medical purposes.

Let us pretend people are "cars" and that they're only two MAKES: FORDs and CHEVYs. Each MAKE has many MODELS that are very popular and great vehicles. There are Mustangs, F-150s, Edges, Corvettes, Camaros, Impalas, Silverados, etc. People are free to be whatever "model" they want and they'd be free to have fun tearing up the roads across America. It doesn't matter if you are a "FORD," but think you're a "Corvette ZR1" or "Camaro." That doesn't change the "MAKE" of car you are, which is listed on the Title.

So, how will Transgender lives be impacted? The fact is...They won't. Transgenders will still exist and be free to live their lives based on the gender role they identify with. It's just that the LGBT community wants to eliminate using the "MAKE" designation for ID purposes and use only the "MODEL" designation. The government wants to simplify this, by reverting back to when a person's sex was grounded in science and not based on gender identity. Even though you were born a "FORD," you still can live your life as a "Corvette ZR1." So, please explain to me, what all the turmoil is about, concerning such a small percentage (less than 2%) of America's population?


You're aware of the science that demonstrates a lot more ambiguity in sex and gender than just male / female, right?

There are impressively large rates estimates for some of this stuff, so it ain't that rare.

Ambiguous genitals - where you can't tell if it's a boy or a girl:
1:4500

Klinefelter syndrome - where males are more feminine (some might grow breasts at puberty)
1:1000

True hermaphrodite
1:20,000

There are others, such as chimeras - who had a sibling in the womb that they absorbed. We have no idea the occurrence rate of that, but it's thought that it might be pretty high in twin / triplet / etc births.

If those estimates are on target for just those three, then there at least 250,000 people in the U.S. who suffer from such conditions - about 0.08% of the population.

Trans folks make up less than 0.5% of the population. Why all the fuss?
edit on 20Mon, 22 Oct 2018 20:08:45 -0500America/ChicagovAmerica/Chicago10 by Greven because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 07:38 PM
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a reply to: shawmanfromny

Are you transgender?

If not -- your assumption it will have no effect means little.

You say we need it for ID & medical.

Why?



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 07:41 PM
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originally posted by: AthlonSavage
a reply to: Annee



originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: kaylaluv

Doesn't society already do this?

Has anyone in this thread called any individual sick or perverse? Or was it an opinion being shared generically?

Should we shout down people with opinions we don't like?

I
There is "Opinions of Ignorance".

There are Transgender posters on ATS.

They have patiently tried to educate.

They don't waste their time any more.

Nor should they.


God created Adam and then Eve but I recall no Transangie being identified.



I'm atheist.

Try again.



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 08:19 PM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Justoneman
I knew a Hermaphrodite born with both parts. After all, they do exist. This one his parents had decided he would be a man since he had a penis and kept it with some hormone treatments he grew up to be a man. If that guy ever turns out gay, I would say that was very biologically natural.

The Gay way I think is a lifestyle. My niece is gay and some life long close friends I have. I am a sincere listener/dialogue to each person I meet similar to my opinions on here and the love me for who I am.

They do think they were born gay. While, I think they "were introduced to it. And that in a way, they "both started grooving" has more to do with it than anything. They did it once, twice, a few more maybe and ok it is who they are, no going back. I have learned to understand in a good way for communicating with them , what their ways really are. Maybe, because I love them as friends and family. Just like one does who means it.


Jeeso man, You talk like gay people are from another world.


They are from here, you act like they are super special. They just want to feel normal. Get real.



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 08:23 PM
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There is male and female. Period. Now, how people of those two genders choose to see themselves is up to them. But science says there are two choices. If people find it absolutely necessary there can be terminology that allows them to distinguish between the various choices they can make. However, the science does not change simply because someone feels like it should. Your feelings don't mean nearly as much to the rest of the world as they do to you.

My feelings are just as important as yours. I feel there are two genders. Two sexes. Male and female. When you fill out forms for any of a variety of things they often ask your sex: male or female. They are not asking how you see yourself or what you choose to identify as today. They don't care and neither does anyone else. Stop trying to make your personal identity issues a public matter. The public doesn't care - and it shouldn't. Your personal issues are your own, and they should remain personal. Keep it to yourself.

If you continue to force this to be a public issue it will end poorly for you. My advice is stop trying to force people to accept or redefine science to suit your personal identity crisis.
edit on 22-10-2018 by Vroomfondel because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 08:24 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Athiests re only a stone throw away from Satanists.



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 08:25 PM
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a reply to: shawmanfromny

There NEVER WAS Any Exception . GOD Saw to That ........



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 08:26 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel




My feelings are just as important as yours.

Sure are.

Just don't be letting your feelings mess with my rights.



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 08:39 PM
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originally posted by: Vroomfondel
There is male and female. Period. Now, how people of those two genders choose to see themselves is up to them. But science says there are two choices. If people find it absolutely necessary there can be terminology that allows them to distinguish between the various choices they can make. However, the science does not change simply because someone feels like it should. Your feelings don't mean nearly as much to the rest of the world as they do to you.

My feelings are just as important as yours. I feel there are two genders. Two sexes. Male and female. When you fill out forms for any of a variety of things they often ask your sex: male or female. They are not asking how you see yourself or what you choose to identify as today. They don't care and neither does anyone else. Stop trying to make your personal identity issues a public matter. The public doesn't care - and it shouldn't. Your personal issues are your own, and they should remain personal. Keep it to yourself.

If you continue to force this to be a public issue it will end poorly for you. My advice is stop trying to force people to accept or redefine science to suit your personal identity crisis.

And yet an estimated 1:4500 babies is born with ambiguous genitals...

That's what the science says.

Why is it such a big deal for you?
edit on 20Mon, 22 Oct 2018 20:42:03 -0500America/ChicagovAmerica/Chicago10 by Greven because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 09:45 PM
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originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
There is male and female. Period. Now, how people of those two genders choose to see themselves is up to them. But science says there are two choices. If people find it absolutely necessary there can be terminology that allows them to distinguish between the various choices they can make. However, the science does not change simply because someone feels like it should. Your feelings don't mean nearly as much to the rest of the world as they do to you.

My feelings are just as important as yours. I feel there are two genders. Two sexes. Male and female. When you fill out forms for any of a variety of things they often ask your sex: male or female. They are not asking how you see yourself or what you choose to identify as today. They don't care and neither does anyone else. Stop trying to make your personal identity issues a public matter. The public doesn't care - and it shouldn't. Your personal issues are your own, and they should remain personal. Keep it to yourself.

If you continue to force this to be a public issue it will end poorly for you. My advice is stop trying to force people to accept or redefine science to suit your personal identity crisis.

And yet an estimated 1:4500 babies is born with ambiguous genitals...

That's what the science says.

Why is it such a big deal for you?


As babies yes. But as they grow older the gender becomes obvious in most cases. Why is that such a big deal for you?



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 09:46 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel



As babies yes. But as they grow older the gender becomes obvious in most cases.

Seems that "at birth" would be the criterion.

The agency’s proposed definition would define sex as either male or female, unchangeable, and determined by the genitals that a person is born with, according to a draft reviewed by The Times.

edit on 10/22/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2018 @ 09:49 PM
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originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
There is male and female. Period. Now, how people of those two genders choose to see themselves is up to them. But science says there are two choices. If people find it absolutely necessary there can be terminology that allows them to distinguish between the various choices they can make. However, the science does not change simply because someone feels like it should. Your feelings don't mean nearly as much to the rest of the world as they do to you.

My feelings are just as important as yours. I feel there are two genders. Two sexes. Male and female. When you fill out forms for any of a variety of things they often ask your sex: male or female. They are not asking how you see yourself or what you choose to identify as today. They don't care and neither does anyone else. Stop trying to make your personal identity issues a public matter. The public doesn't care - and it shouldn't. Your personal issues are your own, and they should remain personal. Keep it to yourself.

If you continue to force this to be a public issue it will end poorly for you. My advice is stop trying to force people to accept or redefine science to suit your personal identity crisis.

And yet an estimated 1:4500 babies is born with ambiguous genitals...

That's what the science says.

Why is it such a big deal for you?


As babies yes. But as they grow older the gender becomes obvious in most cases. Why is that such a big deal for you?

I don't think you read the proposal.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 12:10 AM
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originally posted by: AthlonSavage
a reply to: Annee

Athiests re only a stone throw away from Satanists.



Ignorance.



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 02:26 AM
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a reply to: shawmanfromny

The word was originally used as a biological term. I don't see why that needs to change now. Even feminist were using it to define male/female roles in society based on the sex of the person. Challenging gender roles had nothing to do with changing the definition of the word though.


The "male-or-female sex" sense is attested in English from early 15c. As sex (n.) took on erotic qualities in 20c., gender came to be the usual English word for "sex of a human being," in which use it was at first regarded as colloquial or humorous. Later often in feminist writing with reference to social attributes as much as biological qualities; this sense first attested 1963. Gender-bender is from 1977, popularized from 1980, with reference to pop star David Bowie.www.etymonline.com...



posted on Oct, 23 2018 @ 02:37 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73




I don't see why that needs to change now.

Good enough for granddad. Good enough for me. My granddad was a gay fellow. If you catch my meaning.

To the point, this alleged proposal does not "restore" anything. It is a proposal to narrow legal language. Similar to those who wanted to redefine marriage as being exclusive to heterosexual couples. Because it was never legally defined that way. "Oh, that's bad. Fix it! Change it!"

Reactionary much?
edit on 10/23/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)




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