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President Trump to withdraw from UPU treaty China BTFO

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posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 04:26 PM
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originally posted by: RadioRobert
a reply to: luthier

It takes time for supply lines and markets to realign. You're absolutely right, that time comes at a cost. Which is why noone has ever had the stones to do what needs to be done. If you want to piecemeal it out over decades, it will never, ever get done.

The tariffs take time to bring everything back to equilibrium. You're right that there is a price tag on that. We're paying it, and the economy is still chugging along.

Do you think US taxpayers subsidizing Chinese shipping costs is somehow beneficial to the long-term economy of the United States? Make that argument. The rest is just "Oh, this is too fast for me" talk.


I understand why people think the government should intervene in the market but it is never a good idea.

The economy is only chugging along to people without a historical understanding of markets. There isn't a single free market economist who thinks its chugging along. Its smoke and mirrors.

Are you a millionaire when you take out a 10 million dollar loan and spend it all....nope.

I know it all feels good but it doesn't make actual market sense. These changes are for Congress to make over time. Electing a dictator to do so (figuratively speaking) never ever works. Never. It will be changed by the next guy. It has to be inspired and done through public pressure on Congress.

Sorry no easy way to do it. It gets done by forcing better politicians to run by over turning congress.




posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: luthier

I agree, except when it is canceling out interference by other governments.



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 04:35 PM
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a reply to: GrandePoobah

Yay one step closer to ripping the world apart...



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 04:35 PM
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a reply to: luthier

I'm all for free trade. The sooner you get China, Russia, the EU onboard the better!

In the meantime, the global market does not and has not resembled free trade. It's a bunch of protectionist blocks and economies. The only people not allowed to protect their native industry is the United States which was dominating global manufacturing and ag markets for decades. We can and should retain as much manufacturing as possible in the face of all the other protectionists. US manufacturing is a strategic asset.



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 04:35 PM
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It doesn't work like that. Intervention are moves made to the current market. They need to be done over time with oversight to how the corrections are working.

Since it's all about politics that won't happen until we realize Congress is supposed to write laws and do the budget and if the "Republicans" keep voting for more spending and can't compromise and make deals with the other side they aren't worth keeping. Democrats the same.

If trump started here it would be fine but this is on top of other major market interventions.

I just think its time people throw out the bums that have records of voting time and time again against their constituents..even if they lose a seat for a term. Defending liars and their lies is just stifling real change.



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: RadioRobert

I disagree. We need a diverse market and the future of manufacturing and many blue collar jobs is not realistic as a base for employment. We need to be research and innovation leaders. That is where the money and the future are always based.

The people inventing all the products don't need to be producing all of them.

We also don't need to produce none of them.

But the manufacturing economy is usually vastly overstated for emotional appeal for a class of people that have had it pretty hard since the 70's.

We don't need in any way to dominate manufacturing to be world leaders. We need innovation and research to be our core. That is how we literally stay ahead of the curve. Now you are correct that we went to far but that doesn't mean jerking the chain is the solution. It's not.

Environmental concerns are also incredibly real regardless of their political dopllegangers. We are devastating plant, wildlife, and drinking water.

Trading a few good years for my kids future isn't high on my list.

Bringing the country together to start talking about the levels of regulation and taxes is the only real future we have. Tribalism isn't going to take us there.

I have hunted for 30 years. I know the lands I hunt on have changed dramatically and the deer are becoming infected with chronic wasting disease, and other bovine diseases that could potentially spread to humans. These are the type of things that happen when we over produce.
edit on 17-10-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 04:46 PM
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a reply to: luthier

And those super small changes are countered by Chinese changes and America suffers with no gain.



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 04:46 PM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
The real question is who thought it would be a good idea to subsidize this crap in the first place? It just shows how corrupt our politicians really are.


I'd like to see the New York Times post an article of this on the front page. I myself never heard of this one.



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 04:51 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: luthier

And those super small changes are countered by Chinese changes and America suffers with no gain.


This was started by Nixon and co great not the Chinese. The us postal service did this particular thing.

I disagree completely. These are massive deficits, inflation, and CPI raising conditions being played with. Those things can literally destroy the economy overnight. How about manufactured relying on supply chains? Entrepreneurs?

It isn't so simple. They want to make it sound so because the gains by intervention are short term,..meaning during political terms, and the others are long term meaning no glory.



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: luthier

This nation led the world in technological advancement, quality manufacturing base, and ag. There is zero reason we could not do it again, outside of the fact our politicians would rather outsource our jobs on behalf of MNC's for profit. We pay ag not to produce to protect other countries industries, we're so good at it.

But we don't even have to "dominate manufacturing" to protect the manufacturing base of the country. Skilled workers are just like the machines, computers, and tooling you mentioned. It takes time to build, and more time to mature and get the experience needed for "innovation" . Those are and should be strategic tools, vital to our national interest. God forbid we ever experience a situation where we need to mobilize our manufacturing base and can't do it because the plant-space, skilled workers and experience all went to China. It'd take a decade or more to rebuild the knowledge base.



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 04:53 PM
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a reply to: luthier

I happen to agree with much of what you're saying, but I also feel you are too rigid in some of your perceptions and expectations of how to address it. I wish I had more time to have a better discussion, maybe soon and I look forward to it, but I didn't want to leave you feeling like the Lone Ranger when you are bringing intelligent points to be pondered and debated.

I will say that, yes, it is pretty quick moves by Trump, but I see no other help on the horizon and he is waking folk up to issues that the MSM and the deep state don't address.


edit on 17-10-2018 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 04:57 PM
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a reply to: luthier

IIRC the postal service is doing it because of a UN program.



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: The GUT

Thanks man, I am super rigid on my hatred of government and making issues into soundbites.

I agree there is no help, but I also know it can change with the next guy if we don't come together as people and guide politicians to make laws that are compromise for all of society. I feel like trump and Obama took the legislating to the 15 percent of voting age people that actually voted for them.

People often forget we all have to live here. Liberals and conservatives. And the less we talk the more they win.



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: The GUT

Since Trump is the only one so far willing to address it we don't have time for small corrections, we have 8 years to get this done.



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 05:00 PM
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a reply to: luthier

I disagree. We've seen over and over again that policies of incremental change are not successful. The government simply lacks the will and consistency to carry out a 12 year program. There will be a new administration by then willing to sell us down the river for short-term benefits.

Rip the bandaid off. This is our best chance at restructuring trade in our lifetimes.



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: RadioRobert

Sure but we also used to have horses for vehicles.


The past is a good guide but not something we need to recreate. Skilled workers are used less on production lines then ever before. Those Chinese factories literally have people pulling parts out and putting them in bins. Those aren't exactly thrilling jobs or even healthy.

But yes the programmers for the AI and the automation are skilled.

The world changes. Recreating the past isn't a good model imo.



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 05:03 PM
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a reply to: RadioRobert

Again disagree. Consumer freedom is not a small thing for innovation. Many people start businesses because they can afford Chinese machines.

Just fyi I always appreciate your thoughtfulness even though I don't always agree. I am not attacking you but chose to converse because your not crazy.



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 05:05 PM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It doesn't work like that...

it can all be undone.

What works is changing Congress and getting people to compromise for the future of everybody. Not just one party like the last two presidents.

Now the other side will destroy it when they first get a chance and assuming they will never be back in power is ridiculous.
edit on 17-10-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It doesn't work like that...

it can all be undone.

What works is changing Congress and getting people to compromise for the future of everybody. Not just one party like the last two presidents.

Yeah, that would work, except the lemming will never do it. It may not be the ideal way, but Trump appears to be the only way.



posted on Oct, 17 2018 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I agree he is the only guy but he can't do it alone. The next angry Democrat will just shred his policies. They will at some point regain office. Half the voters vote each party. Elections are won by fractions.

Which makes me believe the fissure is by design.

Which is why I say hug a Democrat play them some ben Sasse and maybe you can persuade them to concede on some things.
edit on 17-10-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)




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