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The state of America and the state of ATS

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posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:59 PM
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originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: NiNjABackflip

Thank you, could not have said it better myself.

I do not make political allies with centrists and have not for a very long time. I want my political side to win, and it is not going to win with any portion of membership that is willing to cry about everybody getting along.

The most fatal part of these centrist is that since left wing people lie about anything to further their goals they will use the centrist to carry much of their water. That is why I am no longer giving quarter to centrist. Let them carry water for a bunch of hateful losers. Their choice, not mine.


what are you trying to win?...what part of the social construct of America do you think you've lost?....

you saying "left wing people lie about everything" is demonstrably a lie, just as it would be saying the same thing about conservatives....face it, you want to live in a country run by a rightwing authoritarian, without constitutional protections for anyone else that thinks differently...my advice...move to Russia, China, Saudi Arabia....you'll be a lot more comfortable with their brand of "winning"


I want to live in a country that is constrained by the constitution that is its actual law of the land. Nothing more, nothing less. I would do anything to get this country back to that mode of thinking. If you really want or love freedom, that is what you would want as well.


so what "freedoms" have been taken away from you specifically?




posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:01 PM
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originally posted by: NiNjABackflip
Again, if antifa wasn't trying to instigate violence, attack, censor and drown out the other side's protests and marches, no such violence would occur. Violence is their modus operandi. It seems, at least to me, fighting back is the modus operandi of these proud boys.

Political violence goes coast to coast as Proud Boys and antifa activists clash in New York, Portland


As for the fighting, antifa takes that part of the doctrine literally. Claiming that even a small public gathering of fascists is a threat to freedom, the movement condones physical violence against them. Its anonymous, black-clad members routinely crash far-right demonstrations to brawl.


Antifa protesters couldn’t find any fascists at Unite the Right — and harassed the press instead

So why are we saying both are the same?


Also, keep in mind, they are more than welcome on Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, Apple, whatever...even by some DNC membership. However, Proud Boys have almost no public support and THEY are the problem. Once again centrist, that is what you are missing. It isn't just an elephant in the room, IT'S A GIGANTIC BLUE WHALE IN THE ROOM AND IT HAS A TREX WITH MACHINE GUN ARMS RIDING ON TOP OF IT.

Don't think for a second if this current crowd of leftist ever take control that any centrist anything will be allowed anywhere. And the best part is the new left says it all the time. They tell us all the time we will not be allowed to say anything about anything and we will do as they say. But here we go, as always, some dude crying about how all this argument is horrible and so un-cooth. It is what it is man, and there are some of us that are willing to fight about it. If you aren't then that is you. And that is fine. But stop trying to tell the rest of us what to do. It's pointless and it is obvious we are not going to listen anymore.

(this was a general statement - not a statement to NinjaBackFlip whom I usually agree with)



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:05 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: NiNjABackflip


Again, if antifa wasn't trying to instigate violence, attack, censor and drown out the other side's protests and marches, no such violence would occur.


Good lord man, have you ever had an experience with these people in real life? If anyone wants to see the proud boys in action, come to Seattle. They sit outside the train station on 3rd ave downtown with their signs and MAGA hats hurling racial slurs at people. And then when someone confronts them, they film it and post it online as them being attacked by the “crazy libs”.

They’re down there about 3 days a week for anyone who wants to see who they actually are. This internet version of them being some kind of “protectors” is absolute horse crap.

Here’s their Facebook group: m.facebook.com...


I'll give you the benefit of the doubt even if you don't provide the evidence. But the fact that they are hired as security for marchers and demonstrators against attacks from antifa kind of disproves your clap-trap that they aren't protecting others who are exercising their rights.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: Fools

Not to mention, if the moderates defended the rights of marchers and demonstrators everywhere, then folks like the proud boys and other more extreme elements wouldn't have to.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: BlueAjah




Are you saying that there are no conspiracies in politics?


Politics is the greatest conspiracy there is.

Each side telling a third party each other is out to get them or done something nefarious.

Mostly widely accept CT out there.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: Fallingdown

I can certainly see that.

That being said, until th elast year or two when we heard that nazi's and such were going to rally, we'd just avoid that part of town. Now it seems people want to go and be part of the problem.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: knowledgehunter0986


Lol, hilarious.


I can see as a non-American it brings you joy to see my country descend into madness.

I can’t share that sentiment.


More hyperbolic nonsense. Are you not capable of any other type of dialogue?

Thanks for quickly reminding me I'm wasting my time.

*waves*



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:11 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: NiNjABackflip

Thank you, could not have said it better myself.

I do not make political allies with centrists and have not for a very long time. I want my political side to win, and it is not going to win with any portion of membership that is willing to cry about everybody getting along.

The most fatal part of these centrist is that since left wing people lie about anything to further their goals they will use the centrist to carry much of their water. That is why I am no longer giving quarter to centrist. Let them carry water for a bunch of hateful losers. Their choice, not mine.


what are you trying to win?...what part of the social construct of America do you think you've lost?....

you saying "left wing people lie about everything" is demonstrably a lie, just as it would be saying the same thing about conservatives....face it, you want to live in a country run by a rightwing authoritarian, without constitutional protections for anyone else that thinks differently...my advice...move to Russia, China, Saudi Arabia....you'll be a lot more comfortable with their brand of "winning"


I want to live in a country that is constrained by the constitution that is its actual law of the land. Nothing more, nothing less. I would do anything to get this country back to that mode of thinking. If you really want or love freedom, that is what you would want as well.


so what "freedoms" have been taken away from you specifically?


Perhaps you are putting words in my mouth. I do think that we are seeing the first amendment being castrated. I have seen since the beginning of the Obama admin an almost tireless attempt to revoke the second amendment. When I get home from work I will carry on with this - but my thought and fear is that the current left is militant and communist enough to totally destroy the constitution and come up with a new one. That is why I say to live within the constraints of the current constitution.

I am guessing you do not want to live within those constraints because you think real freedom is all power centralized. Then again I do not know you so who knows.

Regardless if you don't see the hostility the left has had over the last decade toward anyone that doesn't bend knee then you may be living under a rock.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: underwerks

...and what exactly is it that so many from your side of the aisle practice, again?

Screaming. Disrupting congressional hearings, etc...

I'd call that reactionary politics, as well.

The pretense of saintliness from both sides begins to grate. A lot. Left/Right. GOP/Dems. Liberal/Conservative. Call yourself what you will, this swinging towards the fringe by both sides--both sides--isn't going to solve anything, nor is the defense of both sides by each.

Just because someone voted for Trump, doesn't make them a "reactionary". Not even remotely. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But it's a safe bet that if you (The royal you) keep callin' 'em such, they will eventually decide to become such.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Fallingdown

I can certainly see that.

That being said, until th elast year or two when we heard that nazi's and such were going to rally, we'd just avoid that part of town. Now it seems people want to go and be part of the problem.


I think that all changed back in early 2016, when a Klan rally occurred without police protection. I may be wrong, but this is the first time I can recall the first amendment rights of racists weren't protected actively by the police.




The director of Cal State San Bernardino’s Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism, Brian Levin, was there to observe the rally and told the Times that protesters had attacked the Klansmen with two-by-fours and other weapons. After that happened, some of the Klansmen sped off in a car, leaving the others behind. Levin told the AP he thought the protesters were going to “stomp” the Klansmen to death. He also said he saw no uniformed police present when the fight began, though authorities say there were contingents of officers assigned to both the rally and the protest, and witnesses report that police subsequently stormed the area following the altercation. (Beforehand, police had actually alerted the public about the rally themselves.)


KKK rally attacked by protesters



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

People can only take so much. Not sure which side you were calling the Nazis but I see your point .

I decided to update Niemöller‘s poem. This sums up my position .


First they came for the The 1st amendment and I stood up

     Because I am not afraid

Then they came for the 2nd amendment and I stood up

     Because I am not afraid.


Then they came for the Old white males and I stood up

     Because I am not afraid

Then they came for me and there were plenty of people to stand up because we are not afraid.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: TonyS

I’ll check those links out as soon as I get a chance. Thanks.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: Fallingdown

Truth.

However, there are ways to stand up to the opposition without resorting to needless violence.

I'd be among the last to call for anything like pacifism. I'm a firm believer in peace through superior firepower--define firepower however you like...

But to use it when it's unnecessary is wrong. To seek out reasons to use it is wrong.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Ignore them into oblivion.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal

Ah now i get it, you are talking about the reality show, politics.

You know that (SNIP) is not real right?



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
A wise person once told me you can click on forums at the top and as long as you don't click on a political forum, you can read stories on other topics.


The topic and hate seems to have spread into every subject, I am old as dirt and I have never sen this kind of thing.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:36 PM
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a reply to: underwerks

Complains about Right not wanting to compromise with the Left... then rants about anyone who doesn't agree with him is "poisoned" and tells Conservatives to go to hell.

Does your house have mirrors?



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: seagull


Just because someone voted for Trump, doesn't make them a "reactionary". Not even remotely. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But it's a safe bet that if you (The royal you) keep callin' 'em such, they will eventually decide to become such.


Nowhere in anything I posted did I label all Trump voters as being the same. That’s your reaction to what I said based on an assumption, not what I actually said.

Reactionary Politics.

I think another big problem is people using assumptions as a foundation for what they believe.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: underwerks

Huh. I wonder why so many of your posts are misunderstood then?



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 02:53 PM
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a reply to: NiNjABackflip




Compromise and consensus is not the point of politics.

You have zero without it, A nation has to be able to be like a Family and that means respecting each other with differences and all.



Division is the point of democratic politics. It's why we have political parties, representatives, etc.

Division is never the point. What is a debate about? It used to NOT be about insulting each other but discussing the differences and what the outcomes would be with each issue.The end endeavor is to find the best path for everyone not to bicker and win or lose. We would do well to deep six parties all together.







 
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