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The state of America and the state of ATS

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posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:56 PM
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originally posted by: Fallingdown
a reply to: BlackJackal

If the proud boys did nothing. ANTIFA would continue the violence unchecked.

So what’s your solution. Should the right attend peaceful rallies. Then when ANTIFA shows up they should allow them to beat people on the head with padlocks and pepper spray them?

Your philosophical reply while nice on the ears. Isn’t applicable when you consider current events .







My 2 cents: attending rallies is stupid. We should all have far, far better things to do with our time than to show up and rah-rah for someone holding a microphone.

I'd solve the issue by encouraging sane people to find that something better to do. Maybe volunteer at a VA hospital, serve soup to the homeless...meals on wheels is begging for help nationally.

Or stand and nod in agreement with some person holding a microphone. Worshiping our own favorite cults of personality.

LOL

Im shocked that the question even needs to be posed.




posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: Fallingdown

Well it certainly wouldn't be by promoting more violence and rioting.

I don't know....maybe encourage everyone you know to VOTE...or to demand accountability from the media...and our politicians.

The extremes win, because of the middle's silence.

Silence is the enemy, imo.



edit on 15-10-2018 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck




So...maybe some of us more long-term members (suddenly, that includes me) should make a concerted effort to chill and keep things civil? Any takers? I'll start by staying out of the mudpit.


Why? If civil people leave the conversation it becomes more uncivil. That's the problem to begin with.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
I'd solve the issue by encouraging sane people to find that something better to do. Maybe volunteer at a VA hospital, serve soup to the homeless...meals on wheels is begging for help nationally.



...or any of this.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:59 PM
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wow, can't believe the thread drift I'm witnessing



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:00 PM
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originally posted by: NiNjABackflip
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck




So...maybe some of us more long-term members (suddenly, that includes me) should make a concerted effort to chill and keep things civil? Any takers? I'll start by staying out of the mudpit.


Why? If civil people leave the conversation it becomes more uncivil. That's the problem to begin with.


Exactly.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:02 PM
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originally posted by: BlackJackal

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Fools
It must be tough being a centrist and always being the noble voice of reason.


It smells like vanilla.


Smells like horse# to me. My thoughts on centrism is that it is always geared toward apologetics for the left. I have been watching it for 35 years now and invariably what it is - is someone who is usually socially left wing trying to figure out why he isn't good enough for the left anymore.


Really? Why don’t you check my post history? You will find that during my previous stint here my posts were heavily pro Bush, pro Republican.

I guess that blows up your attempt to derail the discussion by attacking the messenger.


In your mind because I consider BUSH a centrist. I consider McCain a centrist. So I do not need to check your past history. Also, if your past history is that - that means you must of discussed political issues. The reality is that you are mad because your weak centrist politicians are universally loathed by both the left and right now - however the left will be cynical enough to pretend they still like you (see the McCain funeral).



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Fallingdown
a reply to: loam

OK what’s your solution for the current political violence and rioting?

Should we just ignore it and hope it goes away ?


Its a bit ridiculous to ask someone posting anonymously on an internet forum to provide solutions to problems that none of us could ever hope to see enacted. Loam doesn't have a seat at the table where solutions are offered...he (like me) is just someone with an opinion.

The only solution that makes sense for any of us is to be the change we want to see.


Just saw this reply.

Yes. This. Completely agree.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: Fallingdown
a reply to: BlackJackal

If the proud boys did nothing. ANTIFA would continue the violence unchecked.

So what’s your solution. Should the right attend peaceful rallies. Then when ANTIFA shows up they should allow them to beat people on the head with padlocks and pepper spray them?

Your philosophical reply while nice on the ears. Isn’t applicable when you consider current events .







People like to portray Antifa and the Proud Boys as if they are large organizations that are taking the country by storm. In reality they are small groups that should be ignored and denounced by everyone. If they are not given support they will go away, but if we give them support they will grow.

Violence has no place in current day politics. Tell me, what is so important that it requires violence? What law is so unjust that it requires bloodshed?



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal




Violence has no place in current day politics. Tell me, what is so important that it requires violence? What law is so unjust that it requires bloodshed?


Violent people can withstand moral force until the cows come home. What they fear is physical force. People need to defend themselves from violence, and most of the time that requires more violence.

I am not condoning violence, just to be clear, but fighting back against the oppressive and the tyrannical.
edit on 15-10-2018 by NiNjABackflip because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: loam

originally posted by: underwerks
...extreme nationalism...


What's your definition of 'extreme nationalism' and who are all of these offenders?

Nice dodge on avoiding whether you think I qualify.



I’d have to read through your posts to see if you qualify or not, and I don’t have time for that at the moment. “Extreme nationalism” means just that, nationalism taken to the extreme.

Demonization of foreigners, demonization of liberals, and people of color and lgtbq people. Or supporting people that do that, because the libs and SJWs. Running with any story or belief that reinforces what you want to think regardless of where it came from and whether it’s true or not. As long as it owns the libs. Never being able to call out the president at the same time the other side does.

Simply put, that rabid state that comes over what used to be Republicans when Donald Trump is the subject. Reactionary politics, in a phrase. Extreme nationalism is a winner take all worldview, which in reality only makes us all losers because the people you are supposedly fighting against are your own countrymen. And since this used to be a conspiracy board and not a “believe anything the government tells me as long as it makes democrats look bad” board I’m going to say that’s by design.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: loam

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: BlackJackal

I think there used to be actual conservatives and republicans on this site, now they’ve been replaced or replaced themselves with Trump-flavored extreme nationalism.That’s the difference. They don’t hold the same (if any) values. So these conversations are going to be a lot different than they used to be.


I can't help but wonder whether that broad brush you're holding includes the likes of me?


If you aren’t open to compromising with the left and only care about “owning” the other side then yes, I’m talking about you.

That attitude is the reason for the division we see here daily and in real life. Is it really painting with a broad brush to say that extreme nationalists take pride in any of that? It’s pretty self evident just reading through the threads here.

I’m calling them extreme nationalists because I’m holding out hope there’s still some actual conservatives around somewhere that haven’t been poisoned by Trumpism. If I’m wrong, then to hell with conservatism too.

The irony is strong with this one. But no surprise coming from somebody incapable of engaging in conversation without broad strokes and hyperbole. You talk about compromise and in your next breath say Trumpism is poison.

What exactly is Trumpism?

And why do you have to be conservative in order to support Trump?

Reality is a lot more dynamic and fluid than this black & white worldview you hold.

Maybe broaden your horizons a little more and you won't sound so foolish every time you open your mouth.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: BlackJackal

originally posted by: Fallingdown
a reply to: BlackJackal

If the proud boys did nothing. ANTIFA would continue the violence unchecked.

So what’s your solution. Should the right attend peaceful rallies. Then when ANTIFA shows up they should allow them to beat people on the head with padlocks and pepper spray them?

Your philosophical reply while nice on the ears. Isn’t applicable when you consider current events .







People like to portray Antifa and the Proud Boys as if they are large organizations that are taking the country by storm. In reality they are small groups that should be ignored and denounced by everyone. If they are not given support they will go away, but if we give them support they will grow.

Violence has no place in current day politics. Tell me, what is so important that it requires violence? What law is so unjust that it requires bloodshed?



I dont see Antifa being deleted from Facebook, Twitter, Apple, etc... Bet you there is no "Proud Boy" type sites allowed on any of them. See, this is what you do not get. The left is holding some pretty good cards in this deck of political discussion and they have stated and enforced an idealogical viewpoint on their medium. There is no centrist position if it is leaning to the right that will be allowed there either. Give them time. And while they do that you can keep begging right wing people to be civil.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: Breakthestreak

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: Fallingdown

No improvement in human conflict ever occurred because we matched the outrageousness of the other side.

At what point do you recognize 'more of the same' is also not a solution?


Peaceful protesters defending themselves against fascist groups is not ‘matching the outrageousness’, not even close.



I never said that.

The poster is question seems to be cheering on the escalations. I'm opposed to that.

"Defending' ones self is a far cry from putting opposition "in their place...and handing them their ass".

I understand the sentiment. Really, I do.

But it can't be just about that.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Well I’ve got an age old, time and true solution.

Meet aggression with aggression . If not you get steamrolled by the aggressor .



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: knowledgehunter0986


The irony is strong with this one. But no surprise coming from somebody incapable of engaging in conversation without broad strokes and hyperbole. You talk about compromise and in your next breath say Trumpism is poison. What exactly is Trumpism?


As usual the reading isn’t strong with you. Look at the comment directly above yours.

Thanks.




posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: underwerks




Reactionary politics, in a phrase.


We know who the reactionaries are and what they're reacting to: the anti-Trump against everything Trump does.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal

I completely agree. Posted this in another thread but I think it would fit here too.

You guys remember when ATS had the motto under the logo? I do. It's not there anymore. You have to go to the about page to find our motto. It's the still under the logo when you choose to join this website. It's our motto. I wish it was branded everywhere on here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...




The simple yet effective motto of our membership is "deny ignorance", which signifies an effort to apply the principals of critical thought and peer review to the provocative topics covered within. More than a slogan, our members have embraced the motto as our collective cultural standard, demanding all to aspire to a higher standard. These simple two words have galvanized a broad membership that spans the spectrum from highly speculative conspiracy writers to staunch doubters. The result is a unique collaboration of diverse individuals rallying under this simple statement to learn from each other, discover new truths, and imagine new ideas that expand our minds.

This motto has life. It has purpose. It demands ATS members to think.

It is a state of mind.

It is a sense of purpose.

It is a statement against the paradigm.

It is a rage against the mindless status-quo.

The idea of "deny ignorance" isn't a goal that ATS hopes to accomplish. Instead, it's a challenge. A call to all those who come here to aspire to a higher state of awareness through informed discussion and debate.

Deny ignorance is what we do.

It's how we think. It's how we talk. It's how we listen.

Ignorance is the social disease of history. Is the evil that men do, the reason history repeats, and the cause of intolerance.

We deny it. it's not welcome here. Within these boundaries, it has no strength.

Here, ignorance is denied.


This has become a very different site than the one I used to lurk on for years before joining. This site no longer feels like one that denies ignorance. It honestly feels like a pit of confirmation bias. Sadly, I believe it has become just like any other social media website. People post pictures on Instagram and when they see that someone hearted their post they get a dopamine kick. Feel like ATS has become nothing different, just substitute the hearts for stars.

I think a huge problem with this site is that the one liner rule is not implemented at all. Users are constantly dropping posts with a singe line that has no substance, as if this were a youtube comment section.

The thread I originally posted this was this one.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The very first reply was two words and at this moment has +48 stars. They made a one liner which against the standard of this website and has +48 stars. Do you see how that should be a problem? Sure they got a nice little dopamine feel from all those stars, but it did nothing for the thread.

It's been hard to watch happen. It really hurts to see this website, one I started coming to as a teen, a website that shaped my teenage mind with amazing ideas, degrade into what it is today. I don't post often because the content has changed so much, but when I do I will try to be the change I want to see. Hope you guys have a nice night.
edit on 15-10-2018 by lucidclouds because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-10-2018 by lucidclouds because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks
I’d have to read through your posts to see if you qualify or not, and I don’t have time for that at the moment. “Extreme nationalism” means just that, nationalism taken to the extreme.


You're defining a phrase by the phrase itself?

As for the rest of your post....where to begin?

Not sure I have the energy.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 01:22 PM
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Wait, what... so you are saying that because you and 'pretty much everyone' think McIness is abhorrent that it somehow makes sense to take a balanced view when a far left hate group and mob destroy a venue and stop him speaking?

I fail to see how any sensible person could take a view other than to condemn the act of the far left hate group. It doesn't matter what McIness's views are. You don;t need to defend his views in order to defend his right to air those views.

It's a very big problem that some seem to temper acts of violence and destruction based on their views of the victim. That is the path to fascism., so I would say bravo to any ATSer who roundly condemned the antics of the destructive mob and defended McInnes's right to speak.



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