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The state of America and the state of ATS

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posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: underwerks

It is definitely disconcerting how many posts I've seem recently advocating extremism while mocking centrism.

It's the same thing we saw with UTR. They told their people to act more moderate to draw in people that might in the verge of becoming a white supremacist and then indoctrinating with their more extreme ideology.

Just more evidence that ATS has been infiltrated by the Stormfront crowd.




posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:22 PM
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originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Fools
It must be tough being a centrist and always being the noble voice of reason.


It smells like vanilla.


Smells like horse# to me. My thoughts on centrism is that it is always geared toward apologetics for the left. I have been watching it for 35 years now and invariably what it is - is someone who is usually socially left wing trying to figure out why he isn't good enough for the left anymore.


According to a new report called Hidden Tribes, moderates instinctively prefer compromise and also fear division. So it is no wonder that moderates like to finger-wag at those engaged in divisive conversation because that's what they fear most.

The problem is, once the divisive conversation is about pointing out injustices, they risk compromising between good and evil. They have done this in the past, for instance, between abolitionists and anti-abolitionists, between civil rights and the rampant racism, between Nazis and the opposition parties, and so on.
edit on 15-10-2018 by NiNjABackflip because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: BlackJackal
The fact that your post is the most starred post here is the problem. No group of people who perpetuate violence is a man. As Robert Kennedy once said:


Actually, your post has the most stars. As of now, my first post matches his.

At what point do you consider whether you ascribe too much importance to what others say?

He's entitled to his view (however it might be wrong), as are we.

This is a place with the potential to illuminate....warts and all.
edit on 15-10-2018 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: NiNjABackflip

you are totally missing the point

there's an endless extreme of right vs left "debates" while people have either totally forgotten about or are purposely ignoring who really runs things to bicker over who's candidate is cooler or less corrupt or what party has less corruption or is better

sheesh



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:32 PM
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originally posted by: loam

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: BlackJackal

I think there used to be actual conservatives and republicans on this site, now they’ve been replaced or replaced themselves with Trump-flavored extreme nationalism.That’s the difference. They don’t hold the same (if any) values. So these conversations are going to be a lot different than they used to be.


I can't help but wonder whether that broad brush you're holding includes the likes of me?


If you aren’t open to compromising with the left and only care about “owning” the other side then yes, I’m talking about you.

That attitude is the reason for the division we see here daily and in real life. Is it really painting with a broad brush to say that extreme nationalists take pride in any of that? It’s pretty self evident just reading through the threads here.

I’m calling them extreme nationalists because I’m holding out hope there’s still some actual conservatives around somewhere that haven’t been poisoned by Trumpism. If I’m wrong, then to hell with conservatism too.
edit on 15-10-2018 by underwerks because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: NiNjABackflip

you are totally missing the point

there's an endless extreme of right vs left "debates" while people have either totally forgotten about or are purposely ignoring who really runs things to bicker over who's candidate is cooler or less corrupt or what party has less corruption or is better

sheesh



You're missing the point. Division is the point of democratic politics. It's why we have political parties, representatives, etc. Compromise and consensus is not the point of politics.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks
...extreme nationalism...


What's your definition of 'extreme nationalism' and who are all of these offenders?

Nice dodge on avoiding whether you think I qualify.


edit on 15-10-2018 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal

Starred and flagged so now you know there's a grand total of 14 middle ground members. Standing in the middle gets you shot at by both teams. Bang bang!!

Stick around please. The partisan screech has been worse. We might even be seeing a light on the horizon for adult debate. Yes indeed I think dawn is breaking and the politics of insult and divide are passing.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: NiNjABackflip


not worth

edit on 15-10-2018 by toysforadults because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:39 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Annee

a reply to: Rookseven

Yes.

I lurked for about 3 years before joining in 2007.

I keep watch (don't post much) -- in hopes of the pendulum swinging.


I don't know how you can just watch and not help that pendulum swing the way you want it to.


"Don't post much"

Does not equate to zero participation.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Fools
It must be tough being a centrist and always being the noble voice of reason.


It smells like vanilla.


Smells like horse# to me. My thoughts on centrism is that it is always geared toward apologetics for the left. I have been watching it for 35 years now and invariably what it is - is someone who is usually socially left wing trying to figure out why he isn't good enough for the left anymore.


Really? Why don’t you check my post history? You will find that during my previous stint here my posts were heavily pro Bush, pro Republican.

I guess that blows up your attempt to derail the discussion by attacking the messenger.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:41 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: NiNjABackflip




Division is the point of democratic politics.


SMH, I can't tell if you are purposely doing what you just did or you are genuine



I'm serious. If you want to finger wag and shake your head, be my guest, but your inability to grasp my arguments doesn't refute them.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:42 PM
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a reply to: BlackJackal

If the proud boys did nothing. ANTIFA would continue the violence unchecked.

So what’s your solution. Should the right attend peaceful rallies. Then when ANTIFA shows up they should allow them to beat people on the head with padlocks and pepper spray them?

Your philosophical reply while nice on the ears. Isn’t applicable when you consider current events .



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: NiNjABackflip

Thank you, could not have said it better myself.

I do not make political allies with centrists and have not for a very long time. I want my political side to win, and it is not going to win with any portion of membership that is willing to cry about everybody getting along.

The most fatal part of these centrist is that since left wing people lie about anything to further their goals they will use the centrist to carry much of their water. That is why I am no longer giving quarter to centrist. Let them carry water for a bunch of hateful losers. Their choice, not mine.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: Fallingdown

No improvement in human conflict ever occurred because we matched the outrageousness of the other side.

At what point do you recognize 'more of the same' is also not a solution?



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: Fools

Are we issued identifying cards or something?

I've been called everything from an right-wing extremist...to a lefty...and everything in between on these boards.

Am I to be given no 'quarter'?



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: loam

OK what’s your solution for the current political violence and rioting?

Should we just ignore it and hope it goes away ?



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:53 PM
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originally posted by: Fallingdown
a reply to: loam

OK what’s your solution for the current political violence and rioting?

Should we just ignore it and hope it goes away ?


Its a bit ridiculous to ask someone posting anonymously on an internet forum to provide solutions to problems that none of us could ever hope to see enacted. Loam doesn't have a seat at the table where solutions are offered...he (like me) is just someone with an opinion.

The only solution that makes sense for any of us is to be the change we want to see.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:53 PM
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originally posted by: loam
a reply to: Fallingdown

No improvement in human conflict ever occurred because we matched the outrageousness of the other side.

At what point do you recognize 'more of the same' is also not a solution?


Peaceful protesters defending themselves against fascist groups is not ‘matching the outrageousness’, not even close.



posted on Oct, 15 2018 @ 12:55 PM
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originally posted by: loam
a reply to: Fallingdown
No improvement in human conflict ever occurred because we matched the outrageousness of the other side.
At what point do you recognize 'more of the same' is also not a solution?

So...maybe some of us more long-term members (suddenly, that includes me) should make a concerted effort to chill and keep things civil? Any takers? I'll start by staying out of the mudpit.



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