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Communist Democrats Say the Craziest things about Healthcare in this country

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posted on Oct, 13 2018 @ 11:54 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: carewemust

No, I said SUBSCRIBERS, aka those who paid into the plans.


I'm referring to insurance company customers. Whom are you referencing when you say "subscribers"?




posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 06:03 AM
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a reply to: carewemust


It would only work if taxes were raised and private health insurance was outlawed, however. 


Not necessarily. There are nations which have both public and private health options; i.e., universal health care for all, with the option to purchase your own insurance and see private health care providers. If I remember correctly, Australia and France are two of them.

We have public and private education, public and private police/security, etc. It could be done -- and done very well -- if we wanted to do so.


America does not have "free market competition" in healthcare. It's a collusion-based system, just like the mainstream media.


^^^This is the biggest problem, combined with the fact that our very access to healthcare -- and especially medicines -- is so restricted... for our own good, of course.

Cannabis, for example. We have barely scratched the surface of its medicinal/therapeutic value. But research has been virtually forbidden for decades.... And too many people are still subject to criminal persecution for treating themselves with a natural and non-lethal plant.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 07:13 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Insurance is the closest we have to the application of communist principles to healthcare in the US. Where has this taken us? When I was young, doctors made house calls. In the early 70's the price of a regular doctor visit was $35. After they started requiring everyone to have health insurance, the price rose 10x in just a few years. Since then, it hasn't stopped.

Now we are in a position where something needs to be done about this. In some cases the answer is not more regulations but less. I recall reading that the federal government is not permitted to bargain with the drug companies for lower prices. I think that too often we permit the industry to write the regulations to favor themselves instead of protecting the American people.

We have to start somewhere and I think big pharma deserves the first look. Not just because of the opioid thing, I have been reading about the cost of insulin lately where a vial that costs $3 - 5 to manufacture sells for $250 at least maybe substantially more if it is a newer brand. We never see statistics re: how many people die. They are mostly all poor. Everyone has heard about the epi pen and other examples.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 08:04 AM
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a reply to: infolurker




Why can't you go to a website and see a comparitive list of what an office visit cost? Why can't you receive an order for tests from your doctor and you can shop prices for that catscan or blood test and then choose where you want to go based on price, location, distance, etc.


I believe its because these are dictated by your insurance company. The medical office could list every price, but it wouldn't matter.

You still pay insurance company rates.

That won't change until you get insurance companies out from between you and your doctor.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

well, i tell you what i know about the costs in the medical industry where i live at. i broke my arm, just small hairline fracture. no insurance and with ex-rays, sling and velcro brace i spent around 320 bucks. friend of mine with insurance broke his arm about a year before that, hairline fracture. he had insurance and it cost his insurance company 1200 bucks for pretty much exact same treatment.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 09:35 AM
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originally posted by: cognizant420
a reply to: dfnj2015

well, i tell you what i know about the costs in the medical industry where i live at. i broke my arm, just small hairline fracture. no insurance and with ex-rays, sling and velcro brace i spent around 320 bucks. friend of mine with insurance broke his arm about a year before that, hairline fracture. he had insurance and it cost his insurance company 1200 bucks for pretty much exact same treatment.


Yes, you are correct.

I had a calcium CT done to see how calcified my arteries were.... paid $200 cash. If I would have used my insurance, they would have charged in the thousands.

Insurance has an interest in keeping the cost high as well.

Why Your Health Insurer Doesn't Care About Your Big Bills

www.npr.org...




"These insurers and providers have a symbiotic relationship," "There's not a great deal of incentive on the part of any players to bring the costs down."

Insurance companies may also accept high prices because often they aren't always the ones footing the bill. Nowadays about 60 percent of the employer benefits are "self-funded." That means the employer pays the bills. The insurers simply manage the benefits, processing claims and giving employers access to their provider networks.

These management deals are often a large, and lucrative, part of a company's business. Aetna, for example, insured 8 million people in 2017, but provided administrative services only to considerably more — 14 million.

Insurance companies may agree to pay higher prices for some services in exchange for lower rates on others.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 09:45 AM
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Health care is run by for profit insurance companies. They have control over doctors. Gotta make the stock holders lots of money.

Then there is the pay for your 15 minute doctor visit and come back again.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 10:10 AM
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  • Insurance: never has any industry lowered prices when insurance began covering their services. When I was younger, I could get body work done on my car for a tiny fraction of what it costs now. What changed? Mandatory insurance.

    The cost of a vet used to be affordable. No more. What changed? Pet insurance became commonplace.

    Appliance repair used to be a lot lower than it is now. Now, it's rising like crazy. What changed? Appliance insurance.

    There's a very good reason why things get more expensive with insurance: the insurance companies make money too! So instead of just paying for the hospital, the doctors, and the testing, now you get to pay for the insurance people as well. Oh, and don't forget the malpractice insurance costs that get passed down.

  • Drug costs: the exact same drug in somewhere like Canada can cost a fraction of what it costs in the US. Why? The pharmaceuticals will come out and tell you it's because they think the US can shoulder the burden of development. After all, the insurance will pay it, right?

    See above to see how that works.

  • Lack of competition: we need to mandate that all charges are available to any potential customer, not mandate that customers can't see it.

  • In-the-box thinking: there are ways to fix all of the above problems, and no, we don't have to make insurance companies illegal. But no one cares enough to look at anything that doesn't just give them what they want, when they want it, and how they want it. I have a plan that I have posted here, and which I have sent to my Congressmen and to the President; no one has even responded. So I will assume no one cares.

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 01:15 PM
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we don't have a pure capitalistic economy. we don't have a pure socialist system either. we have a hybrid system that has found ways to include our corrupt lawmakers into sharing their profits. the fact that there is programs that continually grow and absorb more and more people who find themselves unable to keep up with the self perpetuating increases in cost means that no matter how high those costs get, they will always have enough customers to provide the profits they desire. the fact that there will always be new people falling out of the game, not being served either by the capitalism part or the socialist part, ensures that those programs will continue to grow in cost to the taxpayers as well as number of needy using those funds. the result is that is the problem has grown to the point where it's pretty much unsustainable with much notice by most of the population.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Actually no it's a reduction in government. Government laws prevent posting prices and competitiveness.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

actually you can look it up even simple non-emergency procedures are thousands more if you use govt insurance.


Stuff like Knee surgery, 1500 at a surgery center vs 6k+ for use of Medicare.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 06:28 PM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: carewemust

actually you can look it up even simple non-emergency procedures are thousands more if you use govt insurance.


Stuff like Knee surgery, 1500 at a surgery center vs 6k+ for use of Medicare.



I still think the problem is not BIG government having a hand in managing the market. I think the problem is the current regulations ensure cartels and monopolies can gouge the consumer. I think BIG government has a role in creating and maintaining a free market for competition or by having rules and regulations to protect the consumer from being gouged.

Maybe the way to achieve a free market is if we had BIG government regulation preventing companies from pooling worker's wages for buying group coverage. Maybe the answer is to force everyone to buy from an open market exchange and have companies just pay workers wages with no healthcare benefits.

I have a tough time agreeing with people saying healthcare should not be mandatory. The problem is free-loaders will use the hospitals for getting free services off the backs of people who pay. I thought that was what Obmacare was all about with regards to making mandatory.

I would like to see a Chinese wall between the people who own the hospitals and the healthcare providers. When these for-profit interests are merged the hospital has incentives to do additional procedures and tests to gouge the consumer by having a never cycle of raising of policy premiums every year to cover higher hospital charges.

Before and after Obamacare, every year healthcare insurance premium goes up 20%. Every five years it doubles in price. Since I've been paying my own policy out of pocket my premium as doubled every five years since 1996. The ACA or Obamacare has done nothing to slow down the 20% per year increase. My salary doesn't double every five years!!!

I don't know what the solution should be but I believe BIG government has a role in legislating away the cartels and monopolies, and thereby, creating a free market. Obviously these are cartels and monopolies because there is no mechanism in the market to reduce the inefficiencies of CEO pay or benefits to the shareholder. BIG government has a role in creating a free market. Otherwise, we will continue to have cartels and monopolies we have now.

Healthcare is not like other products. You can't choose NOT to go to the hospital. Special considerations have to be taken into account when you have a product people will use whether you advertise it or not.

Obviously, laissez faire capitalism is not working or the private corporations using private insurance companies would actually be working.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015


I kind of agree with you, insurance companies and lobbyists are absolutely part of the problem.

Most of the problems we now have were brought about by bad laws given to us by politicians that were bought by the lobbyists.

But that brings us back to the chicken or the egg problem, and I honestly don't know what the solution is either.

ETA: A big part of my issue with wanting the Fed to handle all health care is their inability to handle the needs of 22 million veterans in a decent way.
edit on 14-10-2018 by Irishhaf because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 08:13 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Health care costs rise, my rent went up last year, grocery store up. Government reports no inflation. Can we trust them to run anything?




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