My Public Apology To The GLBT Group

a reply to: StallionDuck

There is a fine line though between love and approval.

Should my son become a thief, would I still love him? Yes, but that wouldn't change the fact that he's a thief and there would be ways I would have to treat him because of that knowledge. For one thing, I wouldn't be able to trust him. Depending what kind of thief he became, I might even have to ask him to leave my house because his activities might make it dangerous to have him around.

I wouldn't be the mother on TV telling everyone who would listen that he was always such a good boy, so I know he'd never do anything like that.

Love manifests itself in different ways and is still love.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: StallionDuck

You can't obey and disobey at the same time. That would make you "luke warm"...

The above statement comes off as judgement of someone’s spirituality.
If you are really serious about not judging others, start with not judging those who judge.
It’s as good as any, as a place to start.

It's not judging, it's repeating what is written. I can say that a man lying with a man is a sin according to the bible. It's not judging unless I'm turning my face against them because of it. You're using the word 'judge' way to liberal.

a reply to: ketsuko

Love manifests itself in different ways and is still love.

Very wise words ! In fact, all of your posts resonate with common sense, and a solid loving spirituality.

You helped explain that my word of ‘judgement’ did not mean I was condemning someone to hell.

Love the sinner, pray for sin to be repented for. Praying for others as well as ourselves, I believe ,helps.

originally posted by: StallionDuck

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: StallionDuck

You can't obey and disobey at the same time. That would make you "luke warm"...

The above statement comes off as judgement of someone’s spirituality.
If you are really serious about not judging others, start with not judging those who judge.
It’s as good as any, as a place to start.

It's not judging, it's repeating what is written. I can say that a man lying with a man is a sin according to the bible. It's not judging unless I'm turning my face against them because of it. You're using the word 'judge' way to liberal.

My apologies if I’m using the word too liberally. But the bible also says we are not to judge ( though I believe it meant more in the hypocritical sense ). So whenever someone comes along saying don’t judge, it feels judgemental to me.🤷🏻‍♀️

S

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: StallionDuck

There is a fine line though between love and approval.

Should my son become a thief, would I still love him? Yes, but that wouldn't change the fact that he's a thief and there would be ways I would have to treat him because of that knowledge. For one thing, I wouldn't be able to trust him. Depending what kind of thief he became, I might even have to ask him to leave my house because his activities might make it dangerous to have him around.

I wouldn't be the mother on TV telling everyone who would listen that he was always such a good boy, so I know he'd never do anything like that.

Love manifests itself in different ways and is still love.

That fine line in which you speak is saying that you can't have a gay person around you because they will steal from you and it's dangerous. Not the same thing. You wouldn't give a crack addict your car keys either. It's not one and the same.

In this manner - on judgment of others - you're sinning by condemning someone who is also sinning. I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge that the bible explains the act of a man with a man is a sin. I don't think a gay guy needs to hear what is already common knowledge. If he is indeed sinning, it's between him and God. God doesn't need a finger pointer when he knows all. That would just be someone stating another obvious.

There is a difference in punishing your child for being gay and punishing your child because they stole from you or someone else. If you punish someone for being gay, they would never get out of punishment because it just doesn't go away.... and that's exactly how many "christians" have acted for who knows how long. And considering how it's really only been a taboo thing in the modern age. It's like the world opened the bible after a few thousand years and said... "Hey... This says gays should burn for all eternity"!

In the same testament, God says that you can't eat pretty broad amounts of certain things. When was the last time you had a good steak or burger? Sausage anyone? What kind of fish do you like? Sushi?

I don't know about you but I'm pretty damn far from perfect. Oh the sins I have committed through my life! Which one of my sins were greater than the other? Am I going to burn for what I've done to others? Myself? I mean... I never killed anyone. Yet, which one of my sins equate to murder? Eating boudin? What sins of mine have equated to being gay? I stole a few candy bars in my youth. Am I going to one of the 9 hells for that?


When you free your soul from these pointless restraints and judgements you've placed on others and learn to fully accept the people around you, your burdens become lighter. Your pressures deflate. The weight on your shoulders become lighter. You don't have to trust but you can love. And when you love, trust seems much easier.

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: StallionDuck

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: StallionDuck

You can't obey and disobey at the same time. That would make you "luke warm"...

The above statement comes off as judgement of someone’s spirituality.
If you are really serious about not judging others, start with not judging those who judge.
It’s as good as any, as a place to start.

It's not judging, it's repeating what is written. I can say that a man lying with a man is a sin according to the bible. It's not judging unless I'm turning my face against them because of it. You're using the word 'judge' way to liberal.

My apologies if I’m using the word too liberally. But the bible also says we are not to judge ( though I believe it meant more in the hypocritical sense ). So whenever someone comes along saying don’t judge, it feels judgemental to me.🤷🏻‍♀️

S

That makes zero sense. That's like 0 minus 0 = 1


There is a difference between accusing someone of judging and speaking about the topic of judging. You're not told that you can't clear the air about a concept, idea or topic. Otherwise, we'd never have a discussion.

Besides, who painted me the saint? I'm so far from sainthood, my imaginary cat has a better chance at it than I.

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Woodcarver

I never said that I don't like gay people. A preacher reminded me that we are to
love another and God is the judge!

How much did that cost? That little homily? Just imagine, all the other ones that don't adhere to what someone else said how to act and all these folks did was revert back to some Kindergarten teaching; and look how much $$$ they saved and No Rule Book; No Hierarchy...

a reply to: StallionDuck

There is a difference between accusing someone of judging and speaking about the topic of judging. You're not told that you can't clear the air about a concept, idea or topic. Otherwise, we'd never have a discussion.

Does that difference also apply to the topic of homosexuality ?

a reply to: ketsuko

sorry but if we both investigate the actual bible, god's words, not man's, we see what he thinks of homosexuality. what god thinks is nothing to do with love. God is love regardless, but what is in the bible is also in there regardless.

In Romans 1:26-27, Paul said, “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.” The Bible says homosexuality is against God’s natural law with severe consequences. You can be forgiven of homosexuality. You can be forgiven of any sin. But to be forgiven of a sin, you must admit you have sinned. The Bible prohibits homosexual behavior

he New Testament also prohibits homosexual marriage. Jesus talked about this in Matthew 19. The Pharisees said, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” (v. 3).
Jesus answered, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate” (vv. 4-6). Jesus was saying, “If you want to know the answer to the divorce question, then let’s look at God’s original plan for marriage. Genesis says marriage is one man with one woman for a lifetime.” By affirming God’s standard, Jesus was saying that any deviation from that standard–not just gay marriage but any deviation, such as adultery, premarital sex, or unbiblical divorce–is sin because it doesn’t measure up to the perfect standard of God. Jesus said marriage is one man with one woman for a lifetime.

we can't just say love encompasses all in a way to make certain behaviors ok. in that case all behaviors should be susceptible to the all encompassing 'loving god'

Hebrews 13:8 states that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever; he does not “go with the flow.

Sexual sins were rampant in the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. (This is the origin of the word sodomy.) Despite warnings, they refused to repent. God destroyed those cities and it was recorded as a warning to all future generations (Genesis 18:20-21, Genesis 19:4-5, 2 Peter 2:6). Some additional scriptures on homosexuality are found in:

Leviticus 18:22

Leviticus 20:13

Romans 1:26-27

The price paid for homosexuality and other fornications are told in:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Jude 6-7

Romans 1:18

In spite of the growing secular humanist trend to think "it's ok to be gay," it's not a righteous lifestyle. Most vocal Christians are not homophobic, but are trying to share Christ's love for homosexuals and trying to keep them from horrific judgment.

eithe the bible in its entirety is bunk or not at all.

im neither religious nor homophobic, im strictly against the myopius selective righteousness.

so no. according to the bible, homosexuality is not ok. i don't know in how many more ways this could be clearer.


the fact that we as a society see nothing wrong with gayness is irrelevant to god, because we view marriage as love between 2 souls and not 2 genders means jack shlit to god according to every verse related to gayness in the bible; the book of god, all loving.

..........
if love was all that mattered and not the genders, the bible would be as explicit about that as it is making the point that the genders do matter.!

do you think thats statement is right or wrong?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: mamabeth

Just as long as they aren't Gingers.

*shakes an angry fist at Gingers*

You dirty sob!!!! It’s bad enough having no soul!!!

originally posted by: seeker1963

Hold your head up high Mama! It takes a brave person to put themselves in the position you did and admit they were wrong! As you can see, that isn't good enough.

It is indeed a brave move to admit previous wrongdoing, so bravo for that.

The issue arises because some will see these kinds of moves as a half-way apology. A bit like:

- "I was wrong to say that you should burn in hell for your sins against the flesh."
- "Gee, thanks."
- "It isn't for ME to judge whether you should burn in hell for your sins against the flesh."
- "HUH?"

Keeping the "sinning" element to oneself seems the best plan.

a reply to: mamabeth

Originally posted by mamabeth
I never said that I don't like gay people. A preacher reminded me that we are to
love another and God is the judge!

I think it’s great that you have apologized an all, but shouldn’t you have been aware that God is the judge from the very beginning.

I mean, it’s taken a sermon from another Christian after all these years as a believer, for you too finally see the light on that particular issue…

Thing is, there are many so called Christians out there, judging people in a negative way on a regular basis…And not just on the gay issue either…

I’m heterosexual myself so I can’t possibly know what it must feel like for gay people to be rejected and judged by those who claim to follow a loving God…but I know one thing…it can’t feel good, that’s for sure…

Where do you think that mind-set even comes from…?

In retrospect, you should have a good idea why you once thought that way…

- JC

a reply to: odzeandennz

The idea of straight people getting together as a result of love and "multiplying" is gods stance.
Its all about multiplication thats the "logical reason" your missing.
This can by bible instructions only be done under the condition of marriage and therefore gods approval after vows of promise before him declaring said love.
Sex for reasons other than multiplication is forbidden.
Therefore any other same sex relationships simply cannot provide the multiplication. Despite their equally even feelings of love for each other as per any other straight union.(Hence the equally sinful condemnation of the disillusioned).
Adoption is not the multiplication through love as intended and neither is ivf.
So thats why the bible says what it says, ( nothing to be confused about there).
However in saying that, -we others cannot judge others for their decisions and actions but that is a whole seperate matter.
I have no problems with LGBT people or their relationships just for the record but in saying that i neither support nor condone. But if your a believer in god then simply the rules apply as stated above.
Also modification of the bible is nothing new no wonder so many are confused but simply the ten commandments out of the old testament " king james " version should if people comply if believers keep them majorically right.
So the OP apology for past said comments is admirable and certainly a step in the right direction end of day.

Oh great, there goes God, hogging up all the condemnation again.

Jeezy brah, I like to be a judgemental dick too.

a reply to: StallionDuck

It's not up to mankind to label a sin.

Of course it is, take the edicts of the old testament and the genocide of other races by the Israelites. Still goes on today.

Maybe not a sin technically but murder nevertheless - "favoured nation status" and all that.

This love the sinner and not the sin is new age speak for "bending the interpretation to fit your ever changing world view.

But God did that in the OT as well, one minute this was a sin and then "god repented and softened". So if its ok for God to change its mind so the same for mankind.

Maybe in a hundred years because of overpopulation "going forth and multiplying" will be pronounced as a sin as well

a reply to: mamabeth

actually i think if there is a gay person or lesbian person it is likely you wont like them again and it doesnt change because of a sermons.

originally posted by: mamabeth
In the past I was judging and condemning others.I have no right
to judge or condemn,that is God's business and not mine.God
loves the people but not their sins.Only God can clean someone's
heart and forgive their sins.People have to repent and admit they
are sinners.

God condemns homosexuality as a sin but He still loves the person.
As I said earlier,I was judging others when I had no right to judge.
All of us are sinners in one way or another.We are to pray for each
other and encourage each other.We are not to condemn,judge or
hinder other people.

At least you admit your past beaviour was wrong. Now all you need to do to catch up with most of us and get passed your belief in God and what you think he wants or desires. (Contrary to popular belief, the bible is not the word of God, it is the word of men.)

sermons help you to question things, notice things but you personally need to understand what makes a person gay or lesbian. then apology is accepted.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

I think you're spot on there. It's hard to live by the OT and the NT without breaking the edicts of one of them. 'An eye for an eye' and 'turn the other cheek' are hard to rules to live by. Leviticus has some of the craziest # going that's totally opposite to Christian teachings. In the OT a crooked nose is enough to be rejected by God and women who have sex before marriage are supposed to be publicly stoned to death.

a reply to: mamabeth

You know mamabeth I've been thinking about this for a bit now and as the mother of a young woman who is in a gay relationship, I want to say that I appreciate your words. I think kindness and compassion has to start somewhere.

My daughter has met with some hostility in our small community and oddly (to me) most has come from males in her peer group. She's even been asked "when she is becoming a boy?" and/or "are you a boy or a girl?" It's so funny to us as they almost seem to resent her being "out" of their potential breeding pool. It's funny because neither of my daughters want children and have maintained that for many years, of course that could change in the future.

Funny story, she has always been a tomboy and dressed as such. The last time I ever tried to put a dress on her was when she was about 2 or 3 and my aunt sent a dress up from Florida for Easter...she screamed bloody murder (It WAS quite ugly LOL) and I begged her to just put it on long enough for a photo and it was a no go.

Fast forward years later she attended a family church and a very distant relative said out loud at a gathering that I was raising a gay child and should NEVER allow her to play sports, wear cowboy boots, dress in blue jeans, t shirts etc. I wasn't there, I don't go to church but, her father's uncle was one of the preachers and asked her to leave permanently as her rudeness and intolerance could not be accepted and was not welcome there.

I've thought about reconnecting with her just to say, "I guess you were right, letting her dress that way did turn her gay after all!"