The New Cold Civil War

I was not sure which forum I should post this story. I also remember that the original reason I joined ATS is because I was seeking alternative sources to the news. I thought that certainly there would be like minded people in search of the same thing. I have seen great stories on paranormal topics, unexplained phenomena, and a great "outside the box" approach to politics. However, the previous and current presidential administrations have revealed a polarization and, as of late, a fragmentation of American society I never expected to see in my lifetime.

On October 2nd, I experienced the death of a close, personal friend. It is not death in a literal sense. This is a person with whom I would regularly debate with, exchange jovial political barbs, but most importantly we bonded closely as friends. We have learned so much about each other dating back to when we first met in 1990. Both have things in our past we are not proud of. That said, I guess you might figure where this is going.

I have always considered myself a very libertarian individual. Nobody I've voted for in the past 4 presidential elections has even come close to winning. But the fact is, I refuse to compromise my principle, integrity, or honor just to "vote fit the lesser of two evils". But that, my ATS friends, is what is happening.

When the Kavanaugh nomination was made, I could hardly wait to see the mudslinging. What followed made me ashamed to be American. If he was lying, hire did he get to be a judge in the first place? If she was lying, what does that do for women who are victims of sexual assault? All I could figure is that either way, it was going to be ugly.

My fears were confirmed. This person, a woman I've known for my entire adult life, referenced me anonymously on a social media website as a pedophile, having been tagged in photographs of my granddaughter which were taken by somebody else. My wife and all of our other family members were also tagged, but that's irrelevant, I guess? She also referenced a part of my past which I am not proud of, but it happened. It never bothered her before, but I guess now things are different?

Some of you have probably heard of or listen to podcasts of Ground Zero with Clyde Lewis. The other night his topic was spot on. It was titled "New Justice No Peace" www.groundzeromedia.org...

The last time I spoke with her, before the Kavanaugh hearings, was because her cousin was being hospitalized for severe burns. I told her I was thinking and praying for all of them, and that I missed her.

And now, unfortunately, things will never be the same. If this were someone I've known for a couple of years, I would have posted as a rant. But a friendship of nearly thirty years has ended for no other reason than political madness.

Wake up America. Somebody is winning and it is not us.

a reply to: JohnD

A friendship that is ended due to political disagreement, is a friendship never started.
A lot of individuals, myself included, have "lost" "friends" over politics over the last 4 years. Some I've known almost as long as the 30 years you site.

Every one of those individuals (for myself), I am happy to speak with again when they are ready.

I am sorry for you frustration.
But some people are better of not in your life, as they want to tantrum like my 4 year old when I insist on them having a balanced dinner rather than candy and ice cream.

RULE #11: BE OMEGA. Don’t choose sides or try to be accepted in any way. Instead, just enjoy the physical pleasures of life and remember it’s all a sham and that duality is a lie.

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme
a reply to: JohnD

A friendship that is ended due to political disagreement, is a friendship never started.
A lot of individuals, myself included, have "lost" "friends" over politics over the last 4 years. Some I've known almost as long as the 30 years you site.

Every one of those individuals (for myself), I am happy to speak with again when they are ready.

I am sorry for you frustration.
But some people are better of not in your life, as they want to tantrum like my 4 year old when I insist on them having a balanced dinner rather than candy and ice cream.

Don't be afraid to plant the seeds necessary to grow though. My daughter who just turned 19 and fully indoctrinated by our educational system is starting to sprout from the seeds I planted. It is a long and slow process, but instead of arguing? Plant seeds! Eventually, they will grow.

It will only get worse unfortunately. Imagine the generation growing up during this time, being taught to hate another person simply because they share different political opinions. The generation born 5 or 10 years ago is in for a rollercoaster ride and not in a good way. We haven't seen anything yet.

a reply to: seeker1963

I agree.
To the people I see every day I am probably viewed as a conservative.
To my conservative friends I am probably viewed as a liberal.
I have had strangers butt into my conversations with friends at a coffee shop, to tell me I am a Libertarian.

Critical thinking and forming your own opinion are tenants my wife and I both hold dear. We are teaching our kids to do the same. But that is a bit off topic to the OP.

On topic
As I work in higher education, I have seen the tantrum mentality often when we have to say no. Which is why I liken what is going on right now with the pre reasoning brain of my 4 year old.

I say pre reasoning, as I've been told the age of reason is 5.

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme
a reply to: seeker1963

I agree.
To the people I see every day I am probably viewed as a conservative.
To my conservative friends I am probably viewed as a liberal.
I have had strangers butt into my conversations with friends at a coffee shop, to tell me I am a Libertarian.

Critical thinking and forming your own opinion are tenants my wife and I both hold dear. We are teaching our kids to do the same. But that is a bit off topic to the OP.

On topic
As I work in higher education, I have seen the tantrum mentality often when we have to say no. Which is why I liken what is going on right now with the pre reasoning brain of my 4 year old.

I say pre reasoning, as I've been told the age of reason is 5.

lol Pre reasoning, I like that. I always called it "the world revolves around me" syndrome. Toddlers are a blast! Adult toddlers, not so much.....

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
It will only get worse unfortunately. Imagine the generation growing up during this time, being taught to hate another person simply because they share different political opinions. The generation born 5 or 10 years ago is in for a rollercoaster ride and not in a good way. We haven't seen anything yet.

I starred you, but I disagree. 10 years ago I worked for a university. Great students, great minds- most make more than I do now. 5 years ago I started back at the same school, no self thinkers, a colleague of mine with over 20 years there was frustrated etc.
I also freelance, and the 16 year olds from 5 years ago are succeeding where my college kids cannot.

We have a group of 23 to 30 year olds who are so self centered, they have not only changed the narrative. But due to support by media and others, they are affecting the country as a whole in a negative way.

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme
a reply to: JohnD

A friendship that is ended due to political disagreement, is a friendship never started.
A lot of individuals, myself included, have "lost" "friends" over politics over the last 4 years. Some I've known almost as long as the 30 years you site.

Every one of those individuals (for myself), I am happy to speak with again when they are ready.

I am sorry for you frustration.
But some people are better of not in your life, as they want to tantrum like my 4 year old when I insist on them having a balanced dinner rather than candy and ice cream.

Don't be afraid to plant the seeds necessary to grow though. My daughter who just turned 19 and fully indoctrinated by our educational system is starting to sprout from the seeds I planted. It is a long and slow process, but instead of arguing? Plant seeds! Eventually, they will grow.

My dad taught me this very lesson...
I can't say more.
👍⭐⭐⭐
The key is..
Is to listen

And patience...

a reply to: JohnD

Some of you have probably heard of or listen to podcasts of Ground Zero with Clyde Lewis. The other night his topic was spot on. It was titled "New Justice No Peace" www.groundzeromedia.org...

He's been harping about it all week...and boy is he right.

originally posted by: Bigburgh

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme
a reply to: JohnD

A friendship that is ended due to political disagreement, is a friendship never started.
A lot of individuals, myself included, have "lost" "friends" over politics over the last 4 years. Some I've known almost as long as the 30 years you site.

Every one of those individuals (for myself), I am happy to speak with again when they are ready.

I am sorry for you frustration.
But some people are better of not in your life, as they want to tantrum like my 4 year old when I insist on them having a balanced dinner rather than candy and ice cream.

Don't be afraid to plant the seeds necessary to grow though. My daughter who just turned 19 and fully indoctrinated by our educational system is starting to sprout from the seeds I planted. It is a long and slow process, but instead of arguing? Plant seeds! Eventually, they will grow.

My dad taught me this very lesson...
I can't say more.
👍⭐⭐⭐
The key is..
Is to listen

And patience...

You know how I am my friend. I have to tell you it was a trial for me with my daughter. She hit me with all of this PC stuff she learned in school. I bit my tongue and just told her stories. Stories that would make her think logically instead of mechanically. I loved her so much, I couldn't just burn her like I try to do with people I don't know on the internet. I planted seeds. Watching her grow is amazing!

a reply to: Bigburgh

There is a reason I have stated my "mood" on ATS when I signed up and will never change it.

a reply to: JohnD

It’s the player and not the game, friend. People will be fair or people will not. That’s someone’s choice.

You can get through this.

a reply to: seeker1963

Hmmm...
🤗

Long story abridged.
In 79 I was dragged away to California and at 5Ys/ I arrived in Whittier CA. Compton next...

My father instilled in me as a good parent would do.... HE, or as any patient loving father or mom is supposed to do as you have done... let your child know you are there.

No promises..
But I ended up seeing the bigger picture. And it answered so much. My dad is, and has, and no question...
The guy has always quietly my loudest hero.

And naturally I pegged you as a wiser vocal person than my own self. 👍👏

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme
a reply to: Bigburgh

There is a reason I have stated my "mood" on ATS when I signed up and will never change it.

I started Jovial...
And I will stay just that.🤗

a reply to: Bigburgh

Moods, like the wind, often come and go. I think we have both picked the ones that suit us best.

Planting seeds...

When I was very young, I was pretty headstrong... Dad tried to teach me things, but I wouldn't listen. After I grew up and settled down, though, all those lessons, all those memories, came back to me... and this time I listened. Dad may have thought he wasn't getting through to me, but he was... it just took time to get through this rock I call a skull.

One thing my Dad used to tell me was "actions speak louder than words." There is wisdom in that. Back when I was younger, I adopted the nickname "Redneck" to shut up the bullies who were using it to taunt me. But what a yoke to bear! The stereotypes are deeply ingrained in society, especially outside the Deep South. Rednecks are supposed to be racist, dumb, uneducated, lazy... and yet, I am none of those. I see no color, only character. I hold an AAS and an AS from NACC and a BSEE from UAH, with honors each time. I have worked my entire life, sometimes 2 and 3 jobs, and even though I am unemployed right now, I still work on things to make others' lives better, hoping for a reward when I finish.

But I do fit about half of the Jeff Foxworthy "you might be a redneck if" jokes... yes, I have mowed my yard and found not only a car, but a tractor. My brother-in-law mowed his and found my truck. I did go to college at the same time as my son. I have had people come to my house wondering if I was having a yard sale. If my front porch collapsed, Lord only knows how many animals it would kill.

So what did I do about the stereotypes? I let my actions speak louder than words. I conducted my life the way I felt a redneck should, not the way others thought they should. When Jeff made redneck glamorous, I was already there. If I had a dime for every time I changed someone's mind about rednecks, not by words but by actions, I'd be swimming in dimes.

Seeds work.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Bigburgh
a reply to: seeker1963

Hmmm...
🤗

Long story abridged.
In 79 I was dragged away to California and at 5Ys/ I arrived in Whittier CA. Compton next...

My father instilled in me as a good parent would do.... HE, or as any patient loving father or mom is supposed to do as you have done... let your child know you are there.

No promises..
But I ended up seeing the bigger picture. And it answered so much. My dad is, and has, and no question...
The guy has always quietly my loudest hero.

And naturally I pegged you as a wiser vocal person than my own self. 👍👏

Brother don't sell yourself short! I am 100% positive I can learn from you! That is what wisdom is all about. Non of us know anything! It's our combined experiences and being able to share them that gives us strength as a civil society. When we can no longer share those experiences without being otracized for doing so is when our society becomes uncivilized.

i think most of us have been loosing friends the last several years over politics, and even religion (and unfortunately religion and politics are considered the same thing by many). and comparing notes with friends, as well as personal experience, it would seem that most of these friendships have been ended by those who tend to be left/liberal/democrat political followers. and it has nothing to do with Trump being voted into office, and thus his policies and personality, because this really seems to have started happening during the Obama years. that is when this almost super polarization/radicalism really started.

it almost appeared out of nowhere. one 30+ year old friend all of a sudden started complaining that i was posting too much religious stuff and demanded i stop, if we were to remain friends. now not only did i not post all that much stuff in the first place, like perhapse a couple a week or so. but it was nothing even politiaclly significant. nothing to do with things like gay marriage or gay rights (which was a hot button topic at the time). just things like "Jesus loves you", and that sort. next they started to attack in the comments of posts. not even attacking the post or comments on that post themselves, but Christianity in general and how "evil" it is. and we are not talking debating points. but using foul language and damming it, things that the mods here would ban them for. and you could not even try to nicely debate. that would just throw them into a temper tantrum. this carried into the political realm as well. picking political fights on top of the religious ones. and in the end since i would not change my views to match theirs i was finally cut off. and i am not the only one they have done that to, they also did the same cutting themselves off from their family as well other friends. the one time we managed to get together with a mutual friend, they pretty much asked upfront if i had finaly renounced my evil religion and political views. and refused to speak to me at all on any subject at all when i did not say i had. and actually ended up storming out as if some big argument had taken place. that really confused our mutual friend, since we had all been quite close for years and had even shared the same political outlook and religious views. but it would seem that their politics had completely changed, and with them the ability to assosiate with anyone who did not share those same political and religious beliefs. where before they would assosiate with anyone, no matter what their political or religious beliefs. and from what i know from friends who they did not cut themselves off of, they have become rather rabid in their political views. and cutting off contact with those who would dare to disagree with their new ideals. rather like those anoying people who have managed to stop smoking and it has become like a religion to them becomming rabid anti smokers trying to force everyone to stop.

in another case one friend who i respected and who unfortunately is a part of mass media started to cut people off when they refused to agree that black people were being targeted and shot purely based on racism (the time of Ferguson). he quite literally was bragging about the hundreds of friends he was blocking because of their supporting racist genocide. and many of these people were even in agreement that those that had been killed were wrongfully killed. but that it was an issue of out of control police and not directed racist genocide. and this is a person that was a part of forming the narrative in the news about such things. and yet they closed themselves off from any possibility that their view was not correct?

i have even seen where it has gotten to the point that within certain groups and at their events where we once talked and debated things like politics and religion freely and without fights or the breakup of friendships, even when people were pretty badly smashed. have atually started to ban such talk because of the fallout and fights (sometimes with police becomming involveed). it really is sad seeing signs now posted politics free zone, in the effort to keep people civil.

what is really happening is that these people (and i know some on the right do so as well), are quite literally cutting themselves off from anyone with a differant view. and thus surround themselves with like thinkers in an echo chamber of their ideals feeding off each other and radicalizing themselves even further. and if this treand does not stop that i fear we will end up in armed conflict over it.