It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Dont Take the Moderates Seriously

page: 6
4
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:48 PM
link   

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




your arguments stand when there isn't a logical challenge to dispute them.

In this case, your argument has failed.


No offence, but this isn't an argument. My arguments stand because no one has even begun to refute them. Give it a shot.


Sticking your fingers in your ears isn't a counter argument...




posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:50 PM
link   
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




Sticking your fingers in your ears isn't a counter argument...


I've responded to nearly every argument in good faith. So much for sticking my fingers in my ears...



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:50 PM
link   
a reply to: NiNjABackflip


Sure, tell me the fallacy.


First off you're premise is that moderates don't take stances and they are silent.

Then when the moderates come here and say that's not true, you say we're stifling the debate.

So all I can conclude, is you're effectively saying to pick a side. I don't like either of them. But I'm just as vocal and active as anyone who has picked a side.

You're trashing moderates and are confused by the backlash.

As I've said before, there are many people on both sides of the isle who I admire and respect, because they're convicted and argue with facts, at the end of the day they disagree with opponents on opinion.

You're touting your opinion as fact. And you want moderates silent.

The funniest part is, you keep framing moderates in this discussion as people who just flat out obtain from political argument, and voters... Not the same thing.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:52 PM
link   
a reply to: NiNjABackflip

That's your first mistake. Not taking a majority of the voting public, and an obvious majority of functioning adults, seriously.

What makes your views correct, any way? Sheer ear-numbing volume and stridency?

...and what, pray, is being so locked into your own echo chamber unwilling to listen to anything but shades of your own ramblings? Courage? Actually, no, it's actually that which you're accusing, without proof, me of--intellectual cowardice.

A true moderate, I make no such claims myself, is one who listens to all sides then picks his or her own ground to stand, be it popular or not. That takes something akin to courage, at times.

I consider myself to be right of center on some issues, and left on others, as such, your "my way, or the highway" attitude finds little to offer. There's a reason you're a fringe element, and the only reason you get any credence at all, is because you're a twisted version of what you're attempting to rail against from the left.

What you little realize, nor care about apparently, is that with that black and white attitude, you're driving people away from you, rather than convincing anyone.

What makes you any different then the Reeee crowd on the left? I'll answer that for you, there is little difference, save in the name. So, well done, you've managed to become that which you rail against...an intolerant fringe movement.





posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:52 PM
link   
Strongly disagree.

I agree that if you mean sitting on the fence with no opinion and doing nothing when action is required...is bad. You have to take action.

But the main points I'm making here are these.

Moderates swing elections. Moderates in this regard meaning someone who could vote for either a democrat or a republican and makes their choice based on research, watching debates and thinking how policy could actually effect them, rather than blindly following party lines.

It's funny, how many people on ATS are blindly following party lines whether it makes sense or not. They only do it because their favorite celebrity tells them to whether it's Taylor Swift, Sean Hannity, Rachel maddow or Rush Limbaugh or Kim Kardashian. These people aren't geniuses, they're just celebrities. Some sing, some have good talking voices, some have big butts.

Most pundits on TV are only trying to divide us. They fall into two categories. They themselves are brainwashed or they know they are pushing an agenda, are getting paid to do it, but don't really believe the lies they are actually telling us.

Moderates or Independents, see through the media lies and make up their minds on their own.
edit on 11-10-2018 by amazing because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:53 PM
link   
a reply to: NiNjABackflip

You continually pigeonhole the argument into a framework that only recognizes the 2 examples you gave, while ignoring the myriad examples that would refute it.

Perhaps in the most narrow confines of your 2 examples, you are correct. In the grander sense, moderation is the flavor that moves equity and economy.

Maybe when a class of citizen is shoved to the back of the bus, or has their ass kicked for daring to eat at a lunch counter, I can see the value of "extremism" (in your definition, not the more commonly held definition).



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:54 PM
link   
a reply to: NiNjABackflip



1) No, I wasn't speaking about pointing out silliness in arguments. What I mean is, the effect is to discredit the political process, the fundamental debate between one side and the other.


Moderates believe there are multiple sides.

For instance, I'm anti war first and foremost (unless there is just cause, per my principles) can't pick either side there, so I have my own.

I think we should regulate corporate money in elections, again, both sides (establishment politicians) love that corporate money. So I have my own.

Both sides believe in stripping away rights and giving government more authority over citizens under the ruse of "its for our own good" (again establishment politics). I pick my own side.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:56 PM
link   

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip
a reply to: MotherMayEye




Only an idiot would entrust our corrupt government with an extreme agenda.

Good god.


No one said that.


But if you had taken your position to its 'conclusion,' you would have.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:59 PM
link   

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: NiNjABackflip


Sure, tell me the fallacy.


First off you're premise is that moderates don't take stances and they are silent.

Then when the moderates come here and say that's not true, you say we're stifling the debate.

So all I can conclude, is you're effectively saying to pick a side. I don't like either of them. But I'm just as vocal and active as anyone who has picked a side.

You're trashing moderates and are confused by the backlash.

As I've said before, there are many people on both sides of the isle who I admire and respect, because they're convicted and argue with facts, at the end of the day they disagree with opponents on opinion.

You're touting your opinion as fact. And you want moderates silent.

The funniest part is, you keep framing moderates in this discussion as people who just flat out obtain from political argument, and voters... Not the same thing.


Actually I was presenting an argument, not an opinion.

I framed moderates as those who enjoy being without a political ideology and have no shame in promoting their lack of political ideology. They tend to refuse taking part in partisan politics. The problem is there is no other type of politics.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 01:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: NiNjABackflip


Sure, tell me the fallacy.


First off you're premise is that moderates don't take stances and they are silent.

Then when the moderates come here and say that's not true, you say we're stifling the debate.

So all I can conclude, is you're effectively saying to pick a side. I don't like either of them. But I'm just as vocal and active as anyone who has picked a side.

You're trashing moderates and are confused by the backlash.

As I've said before, there are many people on both sides of the isle who I admire and respect, because they're convicted and argue with facts, at the end of the day they disagree with opponents on opinion.

You're touting your opinion as fact. And you want moderates silent.

The funniest part is, you keep framing moderates in this discussion as people who just flat out obtain from political argument, and voters... Not the same thing.


Actually I was presenting an argument, not an opinion.

I framed moderates as those who enjoy being without a political ideology and have no shame in promoting their lack of political ideology. They tend to refuse taking part in partisan politics. The problem is there is no other type of politics.


Which is not true.

I have plenty of ideology that I work hard to maintain because I don't follow a script. Just because I won't slap left or right on my ideology doesn't mean I don't have one.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 01:02 PM
link   

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: NiNjABackflip


Sure, tell me the fallacy.


First off you're premise is that moderates don't take stances and they are silent.

Then when the moderates come here and say that's not true, you say we're stifling the debate.

So all I can conclude, is you're effectively saying to pick a side. I don't like either of them. But I'm just as vocal and active as anyone who has picked a side.

You're trashing moderates and are confused by the backlash.

As I've said before, there are many people on both sides of the isle who I admire and respect, because they're convicted and argue with facts, at the end of the day they disagree with opponents on opinion.

You're touting your opinion as fact. And you want moderates silent.

The funniest part is, you keep framing moderates in this discussion as people who just flat out obtain from political argument, and voters... Not the same thing.


Actually I was presenting an argument, not an opinion.

I framed moderates as those who enjoy being without a political ideology and have no shame in promoting their lack of political ideology. They tend to refuse taking part in partisan politics. The problem is there is no other type of politics.


Yeah there is. The lie is that Democrats and Republicans are different. They aren't .

All this squabbling we do here, on facebook and in senate hearings is just theatre.

In real life I train with, work with, teach, take instruction from, buy from and sell to liberals and conservatives and there is never a problem. The only problem is when they turn on the news, identify with a "team" and start playing the "my team is better than your team" game.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 01:04 PM
link   
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




You continually pigeonhole the argument into a framework that only recognizes the 2 examples you gave, while ignoring the myriad examples that would refute it.

Perhaps in the most narrow confines of your 2 examples, you are correct. In the grander sense, moderation is the flavor that moves equity and economy.

Maybe when a class of citizen is shoved to the back of the bus, or has their ass kicked for daring to eat at a lunch counter, I can see the value of "extremism" (in your definition, not the more commonly held definition).


That's fair. I am open to any examples otherwise.

Moderate politics is essentially political triangulation, a form of centrism. Centrists are most critical of democracy (Source).



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 01:05 PM
link   
"Actually I was presenting an argument, not an opinion."



Your argument is an opinion. What else would an argument be?

They most definitely aren't refusing to take part in partisan politics. They just don't pick a side in said partisan politics.
edit on 11-10-2018 by narrator because: Tried to quote a previous post and the formatting was all out of whack



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 01:05 PM
link   
a reply to: CriticalStinker




Which is not true.

I have plenty of ideology that I work hard to maintain because I don't follow a script. Just because I won't slap left or right on my ideology doesn't mean I don't have one.


So you fall nowhere on the political spectrum?



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 01:06 PM
link   
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Those within the extreme faction. They're never wrong you see, even when proof is given, or, as we've seen demonstrated, isn't given. It matters not, they're right, everyone else, wrong.

No middle ground sought, nor is it wanted. Their way, or blood, whether metaphorical or literal, will flow.
edit on 10/11/2018 by seagull because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 01:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: narrator



Argument: a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.
edit on 11-10-2018 by NiNjABackflip because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 01:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: NiNjABackflip

That's your first mistake. Not taking a majority of the voting public, and an obvious majority of functioning adults, seriously.

What makes your views correct, any way? Sheer ear-numbing volume and stridency?

...and what, pray, is being so locked into your own echo chamber unwilling to listen to anything but shades of your own ramblings? Courage? Actually, no, it's actually that which you're accusing, without proof, me of--intellectual cowardice.

A true moderate, I make no such claims myself, is one who listens to all sides then picks his or her own ground to stand, be it popular or not. That takes something akin to courage, at times.

I consider myself to be right of center on some issues, and left on others, as such, your "my way, or the highway" attitude finds little to offer. There's a reason you're a fringe element, and the only reason you get any credence at all, is because you're a twisted version of what you're attempting to rail against from the left.

What you little realize, nor care about apparently, is that with that black and white attitude, you're driving people away from you, rather than convincing anyone.

What makes you any different then the Reeee crowd on the left? I'll answer that for you, there is little difference, save in the name. So, well done, you've managed to become that which you rail against...an intolerant fringe movement.




So much for tackling the ball and not the player.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 01:10 PM
link   

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip
a reply to: CriticalStinker




Which is not true.

I have plenty of ideology that I work hard to maintain because I don't follow a script. Just because I won't slap left or right on my ideology doesn't mean I don't have one.


So you fall nowhere on the political spectrum?


Liberal libertarian or classical liberal with no party affiliation because my ideology is parties pervert platform.

I'd rather vote for people who are independent and clearly lay out their platform. Further more I want them beholden to no entity to change their stances so that they play ball for their team.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 01:12 PM
link   
a reply to: CriticalStinker




Liberal libertarian or classical liberal with no party affiliation because my ideology is parties pervert platform.

I'd rather vote for people who are independent and clearly lay out their platform. Further more I want them beholden to no entity to change their stances so that they play ball for their team.


You're no moderate.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 01:13 PM
link   
a reply to: NiNjABackflip

Oh, I see, it's OK to denigrate the faceless masses.

Your mistaken ideological maunderings are what I "attacked", not you. But if you choose to view it as such, complain to staff. In this thread, I'm not staff, so have no say in it.




top topics



 
4
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join