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Dont Take the Moderates Seriously

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posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: karmicecstasy




Two people talking.

"So uh, if moderates should not be taken seriously. What extremist view do you represent, and which radical and extreme view do you think is the only correct one?"

"Whoa whoa whoa, who ever said I held any extremist views. I didn't. Hey what is that over there behind you"

One man points behind the other. Obfuscation ensues.


Man doesn't read OP, dismisses arguments in it, finds some tangental remarks to comment on instead, uses it to discredit the entire OP, fallacy ensues.




posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: NiNjABackflip
a reply to: CriticalStinker




There's no use. We've been down this road with ninja before.

Funny we're being preached to about conviction and consistency by someone who can't even keep their points in line through a thread.

But they used quotes from an activist and a political commentator, so clearly the premise is bullet proof.


That didn't take you long. Can't tackle the ball, tackle the player.


You've been saying no one can argue with you and all of our points are invalid.

I simply proposed how could we debate when you keep changing your stance and moving the goal posts for your argument.

The whole thread is moderates shouldn't be taken seriously, and you're using non participants to prove your point for moderates.

I, and many other moderates on this board are very vocal, take stances, and are politically active.

You framed your whole argument wrong from the beginning and are just now trying to prop it back together after the house of cards that is this thread have fallen.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: NiNjABackflip

I won't judge those who choose inaction over action -- they have to live with their choices and their consequences -- but their inaction says nothing about anyone except themselves.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:22 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker




You've been saying no one can argue with you and all of our points are invalid.


I did not. I'm saying you are dismissing my arguments.


The whole thread is moderates shouldn't be taken seriously, and you're using non participants to prove your point for moderates.


False again.


I, and many other moderates on this board are very vocal, take stances, and are politically active.


That's the problem. Your politics consists of stifling the debate for the exact reasons I stated in the OP.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: NiNjABackflip


That's the problem. Your politics consists of stifling the debate for the exact reasons I stated in the OP.


As I said earlier, you loaded the deck with fallacies, your mind won't budge because of how you've framed the argument since the beginning.

Now you think moderates are stifling debate because they're arguing that they have the right to have just as much voice as extremists without subscribing to an ideology, but rather taking stances issue by issue.


Your proposition is pick a side and stick with it or you're just trolling.
edit on 11-10-2018 by CriticalStinker because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker




As I said earlier, you loaded the deck with fallacies, your mind won't budge because of how you've framed the argument since the beginning.


Sure, tell me the fallacy.


Now you think moderates are stifling debate because they're arguing that they have the right to have just as much voice as extremists without subscribing to an ideology, but rather taking stances issue by issue.


No, I never said nor think that.

I said they are stifling debate because "they become more devoted to order and “balance” than to any justice or higher principle", echoing the remarks of MLK, who essentially made the same argument.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: NiNjABackflip

You gave 2 examples, while ignoring countless others. A good example is just about anything Jordan Peterson says....almost all of it worthy of discourse, almost all of it shouted down by a left hell bent on controlling said discourse.

Of all the debates we have in the US...which ones derive from anywhere other than the far left or far right? In fact, lately...which ones derive from anything but the far left? Anyone not of that mindset can either ignore them entirely, or spend their entire time defending against various/sundry personal attacks.

If a moderate has a choice, please identify the last moderate POTUS candidate. Please identify which party represents moderate viewpoints. Perhaps I am missing something entirely here.



So how does Jordan Peterson explain the disparity of beliefs against "Outcome of Equality" and the need for enforced monogamy because there is a push to the top in all hierarchical systems? Because he doesn't, he is a snake oil salesman.

On topic, it's rich that the OP comes out with CNN pushing yellow journalism, while Tucker is just pushing talking points. Tucker says whatever his libertarian paymasters tell him to say specifically and whatever his viewers will lap up in general. He has been race baiting and throwing around dangerous rhetoric for years now. He's just a cleaned up Alex Jones, and probably shares in his revenue stream.

If anything, if you want to look at moderation it's MSNBC pushing the party line of incrementalism which has brought us to the status quo of 'lesser of two evils' voting for as long as I can remember. Incrementalism is so wonderful is has dragged "the left" farther and farther right. Without a true left (as opposition) that put us in the perfect position to place a demagogue into the highest office.

So I guess my argument is moderation is good for the right, has destroyed the left, and enabled the blatant demagoguery that have infected all of your minds. And overall that is just empowering the oligarchy (Kochs) and hurting the country. Moderation has it's place, but not with the current climate so far right.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

and to base the argument on an entertainer .... Stewart of all people.....

im happy that my voter card says no party affiliation. i vote for polices, not parties.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:31 PM
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I don't think we're dismissing your arguments, I think at this point we just aren't understanding what your argument is.

My interpretation of what you're saying:
Moderates are ruining our government and country with their inaction and lack of a stance.

My argument against that: Moderates aren't inactive at all, and take stances on many things. They just aren't beholden to one single belief system.

Is my/our interpretation of what you're saying inaccurate? If it is, would you please explain, in simple terms, what you're saying? Maybe I just don't understand the point you're trying to make.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:31 PM
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originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: CriticalStinker

and to base the argument on an entertainer .... Stewart of all people.....

im happy that my voter card says no party affiliation. i vote for polices, not parties.


Amen, and I know you don't take your opinions lightly, nor would I question your conviction because you're independent.

I may not always agree with you, but I can admire that mindset.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:31 PM
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originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: SilverOwls
a reply to: NiNjABackflip

You're not happy enough with the division that you want to attack the moderates. All there is is political conflict that ensures half the voting population will always be unhappy. It's mindlessly negative like a forever war.

There's no need to stir up hostility and yet here you are acting like it's an honorable pursuit. It's mindless and ultimately hopeless so I pity your screwed up worldview



You want unity, you can find it in North Korea or Saudi Arabia.


In your haste to be an edgy gunslinger you misunderstood my post and replied with nonsense. Ironic indeed that Saudi and NK oppress moderates like you pretend to.


It's good enough that you've revealed yourself as a weak and juvenile debater. Thanks for the laugh+!+!



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:32 PM
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originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: CriticalStinker

and to base the argument on an entertainer .... Stewart of all people.....

im happy that my voter card says no party affiliation. i vote for polices, not parties.


Yes, moderates love telling each other that. But it's just virtue-signalling. You guys keep lamenting party politics but if a party came along that you liked you'd be in like Flynn.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: SilverOwls

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: SilverOwls
a reply to: NiNjABackflip

You're not happy enough with the division that you want to attack the moderates. All there is is political conflict that ensures half the voting population will always be unhappy. It's mindlessly negative like a forever war.

There's no need to stir up hostility and yet here you are acting like it's an honorable pursuit. It's mindless and ultimately hopeless so I pity your screwed up worldview



You want unity, you can find it in North Korea or Saudi Arabia.


In your haste to be an edgy gunslinger you misunderstood my post and replied with nonsense. Ironic indeed that Saudi and NK oppress moderates like you pretend to.


It's good enough that you've revealed yourself as a weak and juvenile debater. Thanks for the laugh+!+!


They oppress any opposition. Moderates don't oppose. I'm embarrassed for you.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: SilverOwls

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: SilverOwls
a reply to: NiNjABackflip

You're not happy enough with the division that you want to attack the moderates. All there is is political conflict that ensures half the voting population will always be unhappy. It's mindlessly negative like a forever war.

There's no need to stir up hostility and yet here you are acting like it's an honorable pursuit. It's mindless and ultimately hopeless so I pity your screwed up worldview



You want unity, you can find it in North Korea or Saudi Arabia.


In your haste to be an edgy gunslinger you misunderstood my post and replied with nonsense. Ironic indeed that Saudi and NK oppress moderates like you pretend to.


It's good enough that you've revealed yourself as a weak and juvenile debater. Thanks for the laugh+!+!


They oppress any opposition. Moderates don't oppose. I'm embarrassed for you.


There's the rub. I think you aren't understanding what a political moderate actually is. Moderates DO, in fact, oppose. All the time. They just don't oppose the same things, or the same party, every time.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: narrator

1) The effect of the moderate is to "stifle the debate and make everyone taking part in it look silly"
2) The moderate becomes more devoted to order and “balance” than to any justice or higher principle.
3) the whole moderate position is essentially built on the argument to moderation



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:37 PM
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a reply to: narrator




There's the rub. I think you aren't understanding what a political moderate actually is. Moderates DO, in fact, oppose. All the time. They just don't oppose the same things, or the same party, every time.


I was speaking specifically in North Korea and Saudi Arabia.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: NiNjABackflip

Only an idiot would entrust our corrupt government with an extreme agenda.

Good god.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: NiNjABackflip
a reply to: narrator

1) The effect of the moderate is to "stifle the debate and make everyone taking part in it look silly"
2) The moderate becomes more devoted to order and “balance” than to any justice or higher principle.
3) the whole moderate position is essentially built on the argument to moderation


1. It's important to point out silliness in arguments. Trump did a fantastic job of making Hillary look silly in their debates. Is he a moderate? As far as stifling, I do think that in a debate, it would appear that a moderate is trying to rein it in, but that's only because a moderate's stand is, by definition, more toned down than a more left wing or right wing person.
2. Order and balance are crucial to a well-functioning country. Many moderates would fight to the death for a belief that they hold dear. This point that you brought up is referencing people who decide to not take action, not a moderate, because moderates do take action on things they deem to be important.
3. Yes, that's the definition of a moderate. To be moderate.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: narrator




1. It's important to point out silliness in arguments. Trump did a fantastic job of making Hillary look silly in their debates. Is he a moderate? As far as stifling, I do think that in a debate, it would appear that a moderate is trying to rein it in, but that's only because a moderate's stand is, by definition, more toned down than a more left wing or right wing person. 2. Order and balance are crucial to a well-functioning country. Many moderates would fight to the death for a belief that they hold dear. This point that you brought up is referencing people who decide to not take action, not a moderate, because moderates do take action on things they deem to be important. 3. Yes, that's the definition of a moderate. To be moderate.


1) No, I wasn't speaking about pointing out silliness in arguments. What I mean is, the effect is to discredit the political process, the fundamental debate between one side and the other.

2) Order and balance are crucial, yes, except when it impedes justice, freedom, etc.

3) Argument to moderation is a fallacy.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye




Only an idiot would entrust our corrupt government with an extreme agenda.

Good god.


No one said that.




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