800,000 people kill themselves every year. What can we do?

It won’t stop until we as a society address the reasons behind the emptiness that is consuming everyone. Thing is, to address that we have to face some uncomfortable truths about ourselves and society as a whole. Mainly that our society isn’t designed to make people happy. It’s meant to make money.

Which is why TV and media constantly try to reinforce the lie that money equals happiness or success. The idea that if I get that promotion I’ll be happy! If I get that car I’ll be happy! It’s always right around the corner...

And that’s it. We keep trading the here and now for a happy future that never comes. We’re too busy trying to keep our heads above water to create the happiness we deserve. It would take a radical shift forward to even begin addressing these problems. But we seem to be moving backwards at the moment, to a time when empathy for people you don’t know was a dirty word.

The only thing anyone can do is do the best they can with what they have at the moment. And try to find happiness and fulfillment where you can. It’s probably going to get worse before it gets better.

originally posted by: watchandwait410
a reply to: muzzleflash

Spoken like someone who is a norm. You obviously don't get it. It is people like you who make me hate the human race.
Thankfully I don't care about opinions like yours. Sometimes you just can't "change it". Control/freedom has nothing to do with it. Its is about getting help when crap is just too much. Many are not lucky enough to just fix it with their own logic.

I didn't say anything about refusing to help others.

I think we should all help each other - when it's asked for and possible to provide.

If my one comment (that you misunderstood) makes you hate all of humanity, you have some serious emotional and mental issues.

People can offer you help, but eventually you need to help yourself. You have to deal with you no matter what.

You are the only one who can solve this.
It's your life.

My rant was against the helplessness that justified the drug industry, psychiatric prisons, the police state, and government interference.

It is definitely about control.
We need to exercise self control and respect other human beings right to self determination while accepting our personal duty to control our own lives.

What can you do? Offer the help, but don't force it. If someone wants to hit the big Stop button on life, that's their call, not yours. Nobody cares if you agree with the choice or not, because it's not your choice to make. Deal with it.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Whatever I still don't like you, I am not the only one with issues. You are clearly a closet scientologist.

originally posted by: watchandwait410
a reply to: muzzleflash

Whatever I still don't like you, I am not the only one with issues. You are clearly a closet scientologist.

If you think Muzz is a "norm" who doesn't get "it", you clearly haven't read about his alien ambassador ex.

His POV, however, is fairly sound. Only you can help you at the end of the day. You cannot force a pill down a throat and call it a fix.

originally posted by: underwerks
It won’t stop until ...

That is a part of it right there. There is no until. humans like some animals, will continue to kill themselves no matter how awesome or #ty their lives are. Some people have awesome lives but are dead internally due to an imbalance in their head. Some will be idiot assholes and end up killing themselves and others due to reckless behavior not even associated with suicidal thoughts.

There was a recent rash of murder suicides here in my town blamed on copycat phenomenon.

A father guns down his wife and teen daughter and then himself in the family’s Lakewood Ranch home. Hours later, a sheriff’s deputy shoots his wife in Land O’Lakes and uses the same gun to take his own life.

The recent cases led the news. Over the next five days in the Tampa Bay region, three more murder-suicide cases and one attempted case would follow.

Could news coverage of the earlier cases have been on the minds of killers in the later cases?

We do not control everyone at the same time. If people want to die, they will die. If a close friend or family member is saying or doing things, your more than welcome to try and stop them. You may succeed. Or you could hasten the goal. There is really no way to tell one way or another if the assistance we offer helps or hurts them.

I tried to convince a guy I knew from suicide some years ago. He had been in prison for two years but I had known him in high school. I suspect he was raped in prison and was having a hard time coming to terms with it. Alot of depressive drunk remarks about women that won't even look at him or give him the time of day.

I eventually just said "you know what dude, if you want to jump in front of a car like you been trying to do and I stopped you twice already, go for it. I am done trying to help and you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself."

We ran into each other about six months after that conversation, and he was in good spirits. Had a new job, a girlfriend, almost had enough saved up for his first car since prison. Even was cleaned up a bit and not as smelly.

Some men just need a tough slap of reality to wake them up and not be surrounded by people feeling sorry for them.

That is my only experience personally with a suicidal person that I knew. If it seems offensive I am not apologizing. My words could have been what saved him, or perhaps he found God right after. I don't really know. I did not care to associate with him anymore anyways. I just congratulated him and went back to work. Have not seen him again since either though, so maybe he moved.

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: watchandwait410

I don't have time to waste on people who don't value themselves.

Until the day someone you care about that you had no idea they were suffering offs themselves right?

No,
I've known quite a few people who have offed themselves.
If they didn't care enough about themselves why would I?

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: watchandwait410
a reply to: muzzleflash

Whatever I still don't like you, I am not the only one with issues. You are clearly a closet scientologist.

If you think Muzz is a "norm" who doesn't get "it", you clearly haven't read about his alien ambassador ex.

His POV, however, is fairly sound. Only you can help you at the end of the day. You cannot force a pill down a throat and call it a fix.

That was hilarious, can't believe you remembered that.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: watchandwait410
a reply to: muzzleflash

Whatever I still don't like you, I am not the only one with issues. You are clearly a closet scientologist.

If you think Muzz is a "norm" who doesn't get "it", you clearly haven't read about his alien ambassador ex.

His POV, however, is fairly sound. Only you can help you at the end of the day. You cannot force a pill down a throat and call it a fix.

Just because you believe in aliens doesn't mean you understand mental illness. He is acting like he knows all the answers when he doesn't have the experience to be making the claim he has.

Some people need help even if they don't ask for it because they don't know how. They think that they are so broken that they just don't think they are worth it. True you can't force it on people but you can at least be their and see the signs. Not say "oh well who cares they were broken".

He is against meds when he was never so desperate to NEED them. They are a last resort and I don't care if his normal mental state point of view, a opinion about something he just doesn't understand.

originally posted by: watchandwait410

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: watchandwait410
a reply to: muzzleflash

Whatever I still don't like you, I am not the only one with issues. You are clearly a closet scientologist.

If you think Muzz is a "norm" who doesn't get "it", you clearly haven't read about his alien ambassador ex.

His POV, however, is fairly sound. Only you can help you at the end of the day. You cannot force a pill down a throat and call it a fix.

Just because you believe in aliens doesn't mean you understand mental illness. He is acting like he knows all the answers when he doesn't have the experience to be making the claim he has.

Some people need help even if they don't ask for it because they don't know how. They think that they are so broken that they just don't think they are worth it. True you can't force it on people but you can at least be their and see the signs. Not say "oh well who cares they were broken".

He is against meds when he was never so desperate to NEED them. They are a last resort and I don't care if his normal mental state point of view, a opinion about something he just doesn't understand.

The crux of the matter IS possessiveness toward others, he's right. We act like we own the people we know and can control or compel them to do and act as we want, for our own benefit. We don't, and we can't, because that's the most selfish form of control over others there is. Don't do this, for me, do this, for me, don't act like this, for me, act like this, for me, etc. I don't care how you feel or what you think, what about MEEE?
Is that individual your personal puppet? What happened to the freedom to choose how we live our lives? Shouldn't the freedom to choose when to end our lives be a factor in that, too?

If the government telling us what we can and cannot do with our own physical forms is a damn bad idea, this on a personal level should also be a damn bad idea. The bottom line is that you can lead a horse to water, but not force it to drink anything (gotta WANT help to accept it) and meds are not always the answer, either. A lot of behavioral therapy doesn't hinge on it, just a change in behavioral patterns/ways of thinking. Not that you can force anyone to participate in that if they don't want to, either. You can't fault Muzz for pointing out the logical fallacy of pills are the be all, end all to every problem on the face of the planet. They're not. If they were, the world would be a lot more placid than it is.

originally posted by: watchitburn

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: watchandwait410

I don't have time to waste on people who don't value themselves.

Until the day someone you care about that you had no idea they were suffering offs themselves right?

No,
I've known quite a few people who have offed themselves.
If they didn't care enough about themselves why would I?

I myself believe that if someone wants to end their existence on this mad planet they should have a right to. HOWEVER, I DO NOT agree that people should be groomed for genocide by taking Big Pharms BS!

You are playing Joe Hard Ass without the experience I have had with these meds, so until you have experienced what I have? Your opinion doesn't mean snip to me.

The only logical thing would be to outlaw people. No people = no suicides.

a reply to: Nyiah

Does freewill exist?

Sorry for being rude... Was I being a troll? idk I just saw a thing on tv about it and I was disgusted in thinking that I may have been.

a reply to: watchandwait410

S & F, and bless your heart for giving of yourself.

But man! ATS is sooooo weird sometimes!

Seems like different folks, understand words in completely different contexts.
Read the OP, and then read the comments up until the one above this post.

After reading the OP: was understanding that you were looking at the whole subject of mental-health, on a macro, or societal level.
Understood that you never proposed intervening on individuals, but rather wished to discuss why are so many folks struggling, and is there anything we might look at to make our society a better place.

It's not about interfering in individuals lives.
It's about creating a better world, for our grandchildren.

But then there are those who just want to see the world burn. Oh well.

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: watchandwait410

S & F, and bless your heart for giving of yourself.

But man! ATS is sooooo weird sometimes!

Seems like different folks, understand words in completely different contexts.
Read the OP, and then read the comments up until the one above this post.

After reading the OP: was understanding that you were looking at the whole subject of mental-health, on a macro, or societal level.
Understood that you never proposed intervening on individuals, but rather wished to discuss why are so many folks struggling, and is there anything we might look at to make our society a better place.

It's not about interfering in individuals lives.
It's about creating a better world, for our grandchildren.

But then there are those who just want to see the world burn. Oh well.

Well said and I like the Batman quote!

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: schuyler

And though psych meds are an issue, it's a side issue. Very few of those 800,000 per year have been on psych meds.

Have any stats or studies to back that "opinion" up?

Do I need them? Are you telling me all suicides are the result of taking psych drugs? Do you have any stats to back that up?

If a "happy pill" was invented that has no side effects, would you take it?
I would because that would be good.
The pill wouldn't make you happy in serious situation though. Just a over all feeling of content.

a reply to: seeker1963

Fair enough.
But I wasn't talking to you with my first post. I was addressing the OP. You cared enough about my opinion to reply to me and make assumptions, so it obviously meant more than "snip" to you.

I'm no hard ass, I've just buried too many people to wast my energy on those who choose not to value their own lives or care about the effects afterwards.

As the OP has stated "Suicide is a long term solution"

Suicide solves itself, give or take a few dozen generations.

Darwinism and what-not.

originally posted by: Archivalist
As the OP has stated "Suicide is a long term solution"

Suicide solves itself, give or take a few dozen generations.

Darwinism and what-not.

Are you saying suicide is genetic?

Suicide has been around forever. That is like saying gay people will disappear because they can't have children and they are not going away so... idk, what?