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My America or No America

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posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 01:19 PM
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originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Irishhaf




The republicans have not done anything special to take the house senate and presidency, it was democrats with bad ideas that kept ignoring important states in favor of hob nobbing with celebrities, couple that with pushing ideas that resonate badly with regular folks on the street outside the liberal city/college areas and its a recipe for political disaster.

I agree
2016 was anyone but hillary and dont give her the house or senate



I want the Democratic party I grew up watching to come back, but until the current crop of old white people running it retire/die I do not see them improving themselves at all.

I also agree.
I hold out hope that trump can make this happen.
They have got to eventually get tired of losing elections.


It definitely won't happen anytime soon. They can't let go of identity politics. When they hit the bottom, they double down. Now they hate old white men.

Great job, dems, keep alienating yourselves!


Now you're just repeating a stereotype that's not quite true, just like when some liberal idiot gets on here and says conservatives hate women and minorities.


Did you listen to the elected DNC Senators? All they talked about was white male privilege and old white men being the issue during the Kavanaugh hearings. One old white billionaire is now talking about starting an organization against old rich white men. I don't repeat stereotypes, my friend, I report what I see in prime time news.


But you and I both know the news lies to us. It only shows us the radical and the controversial not the country as a whole. I have a lot of liberal friends. I don't know a single one that hates old white men. LOL You're being brainwashed my friend.




posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: shawmanfromny
a reply to: usernameconspiracy

They're not getting worked up just on the media and the internet. Factions of the Left are literally terrorizing American citizens. This provocation will not end well, regardless of one's political ideology. Check out the clip below. A Liberal mayor told the police to stand down. See what happens? Chaos caused by a Liberal mayor, who, like many on the left, turn a blind eye to mob rule. Prove me wrong.






Why would I need or want to prove you wrong? I'm beholden to only one person insofar as political beliefs and voting goes, and that's me. You are free to vote any way you want. Hell, my wife is free to vote however she wants. The point remains that the majority of America is going about their daily lives with little care about the inflated self importance of the vocal minority of either party and their xenophobic mental disorders.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

There is no "common ground" where fundamental human rights are concerned. The self-aggrandizing moral high-horsery from those that claim the middle is not working, but making it worse. They abandon justice for trite platitudes such as unity and wholeness. If you want a country undivided, go to North Korea.
edit on 9-10-2018 by NiNjABackflip because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 01:43 PM
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originally posted by: NiNjABackflip
a reply to: intrepid

There is no "common ground" where fundamental human rights are concerned.


Could you expand on this for me? I'm obviously missing something because fundamental rights by definition are shared by everyone, which is absolutely common ground. So your point is going right over my head.

What am I missing?



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 01:58 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: intrepid

The boat isn't sinking, though. The country is thriving economically, diplomatically, and policy wise. That's the problem, Trep, this broken America that the left sees isn't reality. Why should the ramblings of people suffering from political Munchauson by Proxy hold any weight on things?




it is not at all sinking



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 01:59 PM
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It's interesting how easily people are manipulated when you separate them into different groups. Even when the truth is slapping them in the face they continue to ignore it in favor of their group's agenda. It's easier to fool someone than to convince them that they've been fooled, I've learned just how true that quote is over the last year or two on these boards.

It's so obvious that the sides are being played against each other and that each extreme is acting according to the plan. "Fight each other, squeeze their necks a little bit tighter", that's what the media is thinking every time they talk about that week's chosen "issue". People gladly follow their orders for some reason. Pretty sad.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: shooterbrody

The social climate in our country is sinking and has been for years, we're too busy trying to blame each other to bail the water out. ATS is a prime example of people unknowingly poking holes in the bottom of the boat and arguing over who caused it and who should fix it. Nothing being done to patch the holes, only finger pointing.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 02:12 PM
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a reply to: LSU2018

Merkel is still popular in Germany. It wasn't because of looking human, it was a more complex situation i guess. What radical left parties you talking about? And who shut them down? The far-right-againsteverything-partie holds around 15% of the votes (sadly). Maybe you call your friend and ask for more specific informations.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

Hmmm ...

Do you know why I think it should be "my America"?

Mine is mostly the one where the government mostly stays out of everyone's business and pockets so we can all have a microcosm of our America.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




The social climate in our country is sinking and has been for years, we're too busy trying to blame each other to bail the water out.

Perhaps from your perspective, but not from mine. I am fortunate to have chosen a location to reside in which that is not an issue. The social climate here is just fine, as is the economic climate.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Perhaps it's time to start chucking people out of the boat, instead.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




The social climate in our country is sinking and has been for years, we're too busy trying to blame each other to bail the water out.

Perhaps from your perspective, but not from mine. I am fortunate to have chosen a location to reside in which that is not an issue. The social climate here is just fine, as is the economic climate.


I would agree that the social climate is sinking.

We can no longer just agree to disagree civilly in many cases over important topics. That ability leads to real and rational discussion where compromises may be worked out.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

This is exactly what the OP is talking about though. Rather than try to find common ground and help all Americans (or as many as possible), we'd rather just chuck people out that don't agree with us. All of this fighting is going to come back to haunt us. We need to find a way to stop it (at least lessen it) or the country will continue to go downhill.

Sure, some people's situations are great right now under the current administration. Others, not so much. Why don't we try to find a way to help everyone, rather than only those we agree with?

There's a lot of "well screw you because you don't side with the person I do" mentality going around, on BOTH sides, and that leads nowhere. It's sad to see, and we're better than that.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

You don't like Portland and the "social climate" there you are free to move about our country as you desire. It's not all birkenstocks and patchouli oil everywhere. That is what makes our country great. As blue as berkley is cheyenne is just as red. Perhaps it is not the "social climate" it is simply a lack of simple good manners.
"good manners are just a way of showing other people we have respect for them"
Troy to Eve-Blast from the Past-1999



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: narrator

There is a process to negotiation.

I want to sit and negotiate and find a common ground, but for too many people, that means they get all of what they want and they get it now. And if they don't, they act like we see the so-called protestors acting.

I think it's entirely fair to shut those people out until they're willing to come back and actually deal reasonably.

I'm not asking for everything, but they need to be in the same place I am in order for us to find common ground. Common ground isn't all my ground, but it isn't all theirs either.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: narrator

Yeah, I disagree with the OP on this issue (a fact which I guarantee doesn't surprise him in any way.)

The opposition eventually reaches a point where the question has to be asked "Do I even want to find common ground with this person? Is it worth moving so damn far to reach that common ground?"

On major issue I've always had with the idea of compromise in the American system is rooted in my own political beliefs. I'm conservative. I dislike change, especially change just for the sake of change. Progressives live off of ceaseless change, frequently change done just so everyone can say "Ooh, look at the changes!" Damn the cost, damn the inconvenience, damn the risks, just always be in some state of flux/change/evolution... So compromise ALWAYS is a losing proposition for conservatives. The reason it is always a losing proposition is because you have someone who wants things to stay exactly as they are as their baseline going against someone who wants this large change. The compromise seems to be "Here, we'll give you half of the change you were demanding" I lose... I wanted no change, and WTF here we are changing. It's the old "Do you want to get hit in the nose or in the nuts?" question... I don't want to be hit, period.

So yeah, anyone who thinks they're entitled to shove me into a losing proposition can expect to meet resistance and, if I'm able, they're going to go for a long swim as the rest of us paddle the boat away from them.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

See, I guess I differ with you in this a bit.

I don't mind change and I'm willing to entertain it, but I have to be convinced that the change is going to be better than what already exists. For the most part, people fail hard at this.

Most arguments for change these days boil down to - "Because your way is *old* and we have to progress!" That's not a reason at all and it does nothing to persuade me that the new way is going to actually be any better than what we're doing now.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Oh I agree, there are people who are terrible to negotiate with. Again, on both sides of the aisle. However, I don't think they deserve to be thrown out just because they're stubborn. If they don't want to negotiate, they don't get a say in the outcome.

My fear though, is that this is becoming more commonplace than actually wanting to negotiate. People are too entitled nowadays, and demand an all-or-nothing approach. Both liberals and conservatives are guilty.
That was my point, we need to take a step back and see that, maybe someone has a just-as-valid opinion as I do, and they actually make some good points, and maybe we can join our ideas. But instead, the trend is going away from that, and towards the thought process of "you were slightly critical of my candidate? well I hope your mother dies, and get out of my country you heathen!", and that type of extreme isn't a good road to go down.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

I agree with you, change for the sake of change is pointless. Unless there's a reason to make the change. I also agree that there are times when there's no point in trying to negotiate with someone. I just think we all need to realize that our side is just as stubborn as the other. Two sides of the same coin.

But I really don't think that it's always a losing proposition for conservatives. What if it's a good, reasonable thing to change?

And if you look at it from the other side, they're losing too, as a result of your refusal to compromise. That's the key part of compromise, not everyone gets everything they want, but they get what they can accept and live with.

Also, I don't think it should be looked at as win-lose at all. Governing a country isn't a competition. Well, it shouldn't be at least, but it's quickly becoming one. And I believe the media is mainly at fault for this. Why on earth does a news show need ratings? It's the news. Present the facts, explain them with an unbiased approach, end of show. There's nothing to rate! But no, we have to turn even that into drama-filled crap. Sorry, side rant over



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip
a reply to: intrepid

There is no "common ground" where fundamental human rights are concerned.


Could you expand on this for me? I'm obviously missing something because fundamental rights by definition are shared by everyone, which is absolutely common ground. So your point is going right over my head.

What am I missing?


What I mean is, you either support human rights, justice, or you do not. One cannot compromise between the two.



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