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My America or No America

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posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:08 AM
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originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: underwerks


The Republican Party isn’t conservative anymore, they’re extreme nationalists.


Who was the last liberal on a ticket for president? Both parties are shells of what they used to be fighting for the same agenda.


I will give you Trump is an outlier though.


Who cares who the last liberal on a ticket was? That’s neither here nor now. What we have now is an ideology in power that believes all other ideologies are the enemy and should never be compromised with.

Again, how do you compromise with that?


You can't compromise with either side. TPTB are very happy with the divided populace while both parties put up very similar candidates.

Where is the contrast? Bush, Obama, Hillary, and any of the other candidates aside from Trump are all the same. Trump and Bernie were the only ones going against the grain, and the left conceded to Trump when they threw Bernie under the bus.

And rather than fix the party and make sure the next candidate offers what their party really wants, I expect to see Hillary, Biden, Harris, or some other establishment character who will probably lose again. Because rather than tell America what the left has to offer, they'd rather call Trump anything but a son of god, and call anyone who votes for him bigoted and stupid.




posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: shooterbrody


so yes, even the WAPO acknowledges an issue with the media. With respect to media coverage, it is in NO WAY equal to the treatment obama got.


Well, in all fairness journalists were probably scared of Obama, and with good reason... of jail.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

So you tell me, with most of the press hostile for no reason other than their team lost, how is this even a remotely fair comparison?
NBC put the gang rape lady on in prime time. She and her lawyer told nothing but lies. It is not showing both sides of a story to do that.
Now you would like me to compromise with those people?



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:17 AM
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I won't forget it or those who entered those vile accusations into the congressional record.


What lies?



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:17 AM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: underwerks


The Republican Party isn’t conservative anymore, they’re extreme nationalists.


Who was the last liberal on a ticket for president? Both parties are shells of what they used to be fighting for the same agenda.


I will give you Trump is an outlier though.


Who cares who the last liberal on a ticket was? That’s neither here nor now. What we have now is an ideology in power that believes all other ideologies are the enemy and should never be compromised with.

Again, how do you compromise with that?


You can't compromise with either side. TPTB are very happy with the divided populace while both parties put up very similar candidates.

Where is the contrast? Bush, Obama, Hillary, and any of the other candidates aside from Trump are all the same. Trump and Bernie were the only ones going against the grain, and the left conceded to Trump when they threw Bernie under the bus.

And rather than fix the party and make sure the next candidate offers what their party really wants, I expect to see Hillary, Biden, Harris, or some other establishment character who will probably lose again. Because rather than tell America what the left has to offer, they'd rather call Trump anything but a son of god, and call anyone who votes for him bigoted and stupid.


I’m going to say it again, there is no “left vs right” anymore. I know you’re used to arguing from that position as am I but we as a country have to let that go. To continue doing that is only empowering the people who are supposed to be the enemy of all of us.

You can’t blame people on the left for the actions of the right. They choose to do exactly what they’re doing. Fixing parties won’t work because at this point they don’t exist in any meaningful way. On either side of the spectrum.

It’s extreme nationalism vs everyone else.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:17 AM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: CriticalStinker

So you tell me, with most of the press hostile for no reason other than their team lost, how is this even a remotely fair comparison?
NBC put the gang rape lady on in prime time. She and her lawyer told nothing but lies. It is not showing both sides of a story to do that.
Now you would like me to compromise with those people?


The mainstream entertainment media is not the voice of the people, they are the ones who exploit and profit off of them.

Many people think that they can trust the entertainment news, I am not one of them. I trust very few journalists and even fewer outlets.

Yes some people on the left run with the talking points presented when it is convenient, but that happens on the right too.

I've said they have been negative to Trump, and would agree more so than the rest. But I think it's for money, not because they hate him, obviously I could be wrong.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:18 AM
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a reply to: shooterbrody

Well, one has to consider the variables. There is a bit more mainstream liberal networks. Although FOX news is huge right now. Secondly, Trump conducts himself totally different than Obama. Obama was reserved and well spoken. Trump tweets and speaks his mind. He is way less reserved and more impulsive.

Therefore, trump is opening himself up to endless criticism. It's easy to pick apart words when you don't carefully say them.

Can you imagine if Obama was like trump? "These racists over at Fake News FOX are still babbling on about my birth certificate!".



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:19 AM
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originally posted by: neo96
We've reached a turning point.

Things drastically went down hill in 2000 when team left lost that election.

The American political process has always been flawed.

But the separations of powers has never been.

Republicans have issues.

Democrats have bigger ones that's nothing short of treason.


Exactly. R's and D's had their differences in the 20th Century but far more often than not, they seemed to find a common ground, at least on top issues. For example, in 1996 when Clinton brought on more border patrol agents to control drugs and crime coming across our border by domestics and illegals. He also gave the okay to hire at least 150,000 more law enforcement officials to bring down gangs and crime in high crime areas. Today, those are seen as bad things to do, and considered racist by the same party that implemented them a short 2 decades ago. I'm amazed at the downturn the left have been taking since Gore's loss.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:20 AM
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a reply to: Fools



Let's just say that 50 years of socialist programs have not done much good and are starting to fail things.


I nearly chocked on my crisps - chips to you defilers of the English language - when I read this.

With all due respect you don't really have a clue what 'socialist programs' are.
Nothing remotely like a socialist policy has been implemented since before the war.

Just thought I'd throw that in to the mix....I'll go back to reading now, sorry about the intrusion.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: underwerks

I think you're making the situation a bit more dramatic than it is.

It's not the end of the world, there is a temporary president who you obviously don't like.

Not much has changed, and the things that do will likely be changed again at a future date.

You can continue to fight Trump (where has that gotten anybody), or you can focus attention on two years from now.

My guess is, all the anti-Trumpers will eat up whoever goes on the Democratic ticket, even if it is Harris, Biden, Hillary or some other flavorless candidate. Bernie is too old, so anti-Trumpers better find someone that can fill his shoes, or we'll have Trump again.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: shooterbrody

So fox and conservative media weren't hostile to Obama for 8 years. Parading around "birthers" for 8 years. Saying Obama is a Muslim brotherhood foreigner on prime tv... Give me a break...

This is exactly what OP is talking about. Partisanship is blinding each side and magnifying polarities. I've even seen some on here praise FOX news like it's god's version of perfect journalism.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: intrepid
MANA came to me a couple of weeks ago.

Did it fall from heaven?


Right now the boat is sinking and it looks like some don't care as long as they are happy that they can have the country going in the direction they want. Selfishness and self interest is the norm. The days of "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country" are a distant memory. Caring for the country no longer exists with many. They want THEIR country. Nothing else.

See, but there's the problem about which you're talking nestled right into your own OP: YOU think that the boat is sinking, but many see the ship as finally righting itself after decades of problems, even if not everything that the POTUS is doing is perfect or has proven its worth yet.


Kennedy's quote died before he even uttered the words--the addiction to the Welfare State had already begun, albeit with an ebb and flow. We are in full-on addiction to it right now, and with one side perpetually screaming (literally) for more of that drug at every. single. turn., what do you expect the reaction to be? That's not the sort of thing that can be countered with passive comments or ignoring the issue until it goes away.

A lot of threads are started with OPs like yours, and on the surface they make good sense, but there is always a foundation of subjective ideological bias used as the basis of the calls that "it's time for change."

I do agree that it's time for a change with the massive division between people/sides, but if you step outside of the sphere of social media and media in general, you'll notice that the dramatic majority of America is just going about their daily lives as they always have, and that's a good thing. We live in a society now with a built-in, free mouthpiece (social media), and what we're seeing is the same types of people who used to stand on street corners handing out flyers and talking about their political beliefs now just doing it on social media instead. Yes, it's a much more broad reach of their ideas, but that doesn't negate the reality that we still, as human beings, can ignore it or educate ourselves on it and form our own opinions.

I think that the greater thread to America is not the level of its divisiveness, but the overwhelming apathy that has permeated our society. This causes the thoughtless subscription to rather extremists and, frankly, silly ideas on many sides of the political spectrum, and I do see this growing in numbers as a result of the apathy.

Take this morning, for example: A local new station posted on their FB feed and asked the question (paraphrased), "Do you think that celebrities should keep quiet about politics," with a picture of Taylor Swift behind the words.

My answer was basically, "No, but we need to be intelligent enough to realize that their opinions should mean nothing."

I would like to say, "You can't imagine," but suffice it to say that I got a bunch of people lecturing me on questioning people's intelligence, and being too quick to judge people, and the like.

All because my point was that they shouldn't be silenced, we just need to think for ourselves.

Go figure.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:32 AM
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a reply to: underwerks

Why should there be a compromise with an ideology that is unconstitutional at it's base elements?

What incentive is there to compromise with people looting and rioting, attacking elected officials and destroying private property because they disagree on how things should be ran?

Everyone compromised for 8 years under Obama, and he turned out the most corrupt administration ever.

Compromise ended when the leftists stopped being civil and started calling for blood in the streets.

Compromise is over.

Buckle up, because we're making America great again.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:32 AM
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a reply to: underwerks


What we have now is an ideology in power that believes all other ideologies are the enemy and should never be compromised with. 

Again, how do you compromise with that?


With all due respect, there should be no need for compromise... Rather, the goal should be establishing middle ground.

Compromise suggests that both sides get to impose their will on someone, and they should just accept it.

And that's just not acceptable to anyone except those wanting to bully and exploit others.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: neo96

As an independent I've seen both sides do what you're describing. You're just outraged because one side took off the gloves for your guy. Doesn't make it right, just calling it how I see it.

But you're not doing anything to help solve the problem. You flip out about the left constantly attacking Trump as if the right didn't treat Obama the same way.

They see you as an enemy, and you see them as an enemy.

That is what this thread is about.


The hell you say... The media was hardly, if ever, negative about Obama. Over 90% of media coverage on Trump is negative. They report negative news about not just Trump, but also Republicans without evidence to back it up. I'll give credit to some stations in the MSM for the Kavanaugh reporting, they had no choice but to admit that the allegations against him couldn't be corroborated and a lot of people turned on the DNC for the antics they pulled. Imagine if the MSM reported news instead of opinion, a lot more people would voting Republican.

Look at the ratings for Roseanne when it came back out, it was all political but she was said to be a Trump supporter so she had record viewers and on my DVR search, her show was the #1 searched show up to and during its season. Then look at Murphy Brown's new show. The previews were always her being a lefty and her opening show was one of the lowest rated, if not THE lowest that week. I bet The Conners will fall right there with Murphy Brown. Americans are disgusted and sick of liberals, it shows everywhere.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker


I think you're making the situation a bit more dramatic than it is. It's not the end of the world, there is a temporary president who you obviously don't like.


I think you and others are downplaying what is actually happening because of some naive belief that America is a concrete and stable thing. It isn’t.

We’re watching the institutions of this country being destroyed in real time. Everything that has been set in place to protect the public from the government and big business is being dismantled, and this is just the beginning. It’s going to get far worse as long as people are apathetic about it.

I’m not trying to be an asshole or offend you, that isn’t my intention. I really want an answer of how can we compromise. But all I get are people saying “it’s the democrats!”.

Sorry but they’re just as irrelevant as conservatives when it comes to what’s actually taking place right now.

Mainly because neither has the power to stop any of it.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:35 AM
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originally posted by: intrepid
MANA came to me a couple of weeks ago. This goes beyond "he's not my president" which has been prevalent for decades. It's the attitude that the country should be driven by only your party/ideology. I've seen people say that only their party should have the ability to run the country. Those of the opposing party are "less" than they are themselves.

The Kavannaugh episode has brought this more to the front. I'm sure people have thought this before but now it's being brought out in the open. People actually stating that Americans should have no say in the process. America should be THEIR vision of America. It's getting scary. The energy and effort put into attempting to keep the other side down is amazing.

With this latest SCOTUS appointment one side was, "Damn the torpedoes, git er done". Once confirmed I've actually heard, "That's OK. They'll be eaten with the rest of them." There's no movement by either to see any common ground. Social media is excellent at whipping people up. You can read this stuff anywhere. Even here.

Forgotten is the fact that you are ALL Americans. All in the same boat. Right now the boat is sinking and it looks like some don't care as long as they are happy that they can have the country going in the direction they want. Selfishness and self interest is the norm. The days of "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country" are a distant memory. Caring for the country no longer exists with many. They want THEIR country. Nothing else.

This is going to have to end soon before things go too far and make it SO difficult to remove the disparity of the people. Remember that a divided house falls. It's time to stop thinking of one's self and focus more on the country AS A WHOLE. If one can't see that you're part of the problem. It's time for a change. This isn't working.

“Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day, I won.” – President Obama to House Republican Whip Eric Cantor, January 23, 2009.

2 SCOTUS appointments
Tax cut
Regulatory relief
Securing the borders

Following through with election promises is now an issue? He got the potus and house and senate for a reason.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:36 AM
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originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: underwerks

Why should there be a compromise with an ideology that is unconstitutional at it's base elements?

What incentive is there to compromise with people looting and rioting, attacking elected officials and destroying private property because they disagree on how things should be ran?

Everyone compromised for 8 years under Obama, and he turned out the most corrupt administration ever.

Compromise ended when the leftists stopped being civil and started calling for blood in the streets.

Compromise is over.

Buckle up, because we're making America great again.


A mirror is a wonderful thing to invest in.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:37 AM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker




Yes some people on the left run with the talking points presented when it is convenient, but that happens on the right too.

right back to the same crap
90% is not the same
not the same ball park
not the same sport



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:38 AM
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originally posted by: blueman12
a reply to: shooterbrody

So fox and conservative media weren't hostile to Obama for 8 years. Parading around "birthers" for 8 years. Saying Obama is a Muslim brotherhood foreigner on prime tv... Give me a break...

This is exactly what OP is talking about. Partisanship is blinding each side and magnifying polarities. I've even seen some on here praise FOX news like it's god's version of perfect journalism.




fox vs the rest of broadcast and print media is a fair comparison?
yeah right



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