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There is no God but Love: If you don't know Love, then you don't know God (1 John 4:7-8)

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posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 05:06 PM
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I disagree with you.


"Mathew 12:32. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."



"Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe."


Salvation from the cross covers all people, even those who question the divinity of the son of man, Jesus Christ. But anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit, the Love and Grace of God, will not be forgiven.

Everything Jesus taught is focused about loving your neighbor unconditionally. Willing to sacrifice even your life for such unconditional love, as he sacrificed himself for his love of all mankind.

Those who believe in the divinity of Christ are brought into a closer bond with our Savior who is the Holy Spirit. But one can find the love of God in the Spirit, apart from acknowledging the divinity of Jesus Christ in the flesh. For to believe in the Holy Spirit, unconditional love for all mankind, is to believe in Christ because they and the message are one and the same.


"John 3: 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 "Whoever believes in him is not condemned", but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."


Very few people actually disagree with the teaching of Jesus Christ when it comes to loving your neighbor and peace. But the corrupt church has placed a huge burden on the congregation. Many of whom have been pushed into disbelief of Christ's divinity.

The name of God's son is not just Jesus Christ, but also the Holy Spirit. If one is moved by the message of Christ but distracted from his divinity by the false church they have been moved by the Holy Spirit within them, who is in fact Jesus Christ. They have believed in God's one and only son and they will be forgiven for being turned off to parts of the message due to the corrupt church.

It is possible to find the love of God through the Holy Spirit without accepting the church's message or ever even hearing of Jesus Christ. Salvation comes through love and comes to all people who pursure selflessness over selfishness reguardless of how that message has reached them. For anyone who would place selflessness over selfishness is a follower of the most selfless individual to ever live, Jesus Christ, the son of God and our Holy Spirit that guides us from within.




posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 05:34 PM
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a reply to: Isurrender73

Considering that all of Jesus' works were done by the power of the Holy Spirit, to blaspheme Jesus' works--e.g., casting out demons, or paying for our sins--is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. By not reciprocating God's love by believing that Jesus died for our sins, one would be blaspheming the Holy Spirit by rejecting the loving work of Christ.

Blaspheming the Son is different than blaspheming His works.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

There is a foundation. The foundation is Love, since God is Love and God is the foundation.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 05:59 PM
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a reply to: lightofgratitude

The foundation is how God reached out to us in love, through His Son's payment for our sins.

There are very specific details about God's love that you appear to be willfully omitting. It's all stated clearly in the very NT books that you have been quoting from.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

"every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God." - 1 John 4:7

The main goal is to be One with God. Everyone who loves is born of God, not a few, not some, but everyone.

"If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us." - 1 John 4:12

edit on 10-9-2018 by lightofgratitude because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 06:40 PM
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a reply to: lightofgratitude






1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Hebrews 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. 18 Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood. 19 For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “THIS IS THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WHICH GOD COMMANDED YOU.” 21 And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood. 22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.


The scriptures speak for themselves. We know God's love through the blood of His Son--the same blood of the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world. If you do not reciprocate that initial love by believing that Jesus died for our sins as the Lamb of God, then you simply do not possess the love of God, cannot know God, and will not know God until you believe on the Son.

Divine love is unfailing. Human love passes with time. The first is the source, the latter is an analogue of the source.

Human love is philadelphia. Divine love is agape. They are similar, but not the same.
edit on 9-10-2018 by BELIEVERpriest because: typo



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 08:22 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

The verses I quote are talking Agape love.

"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us." - 1 John 4:12

"Θεὸν οὐδεὶς πώποτε τεθέαται· ἐὰν ἀγαπῶμεν ἀλλήλους, ὁ Θεὸς ἐν ἡμῖν μένει καὶ ἡ ἀγάπη αὐτοῦ τετελειωμένη ἐν ἡμῖν ἐστιν."

"Theon oudeis popote tetheatai ean agapoumen allelous ho Theos en hemin menei kai he agape auto teteleiomene en hemin estin"



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 08:26 PM
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a reply to: lightofgratitude

I know, but you seem to think that we can possess agape love without belief in Christ. The first epistle of John is written to the Church, with the assumption that the readers already have faith that Jesus died for their sins, therefore agape is the central topic.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 08:28 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

I know you like to be mean in your posts to me but

Thats really big of you, you love people, thats great, whats your point
No one is saying atheists dont care and love people, that only christians care and love people
The point of the thread was saying that if a person is really a christian then love should be at the top of their agenda
You then chime in with how you love people, thats great and all, but why

There has been plenty of atheists who havnt loved people and as you are well aware, plenty of christians who dont live by Chrsts directions.
Hence the thread and its message
"Christians- if you want to live an existential christian life, make love your priority"

But for some reason Woodie you seem to think you need to I jack this thread and make it about you
Sorry if I dont understand why???

As for the rest, really, you want me to preach at you, really?



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 09:36 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

And this is what Jesus said when he taught on the mount:

"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." - Matthew 5:9

Did He say only crucifixion believers will be called children of God? No, He said Peacemakers.

Did Jesus say you are forgiven by believing He died on the cross? No, He said you are forgiven by forgiving others. When you give forgiveness, then you receive it. When you Love, then you dwell in God. Jesus was forgiving sins ways before He died on the cross

"Matthew 6:14-15 King James Version (KJV)


14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: lightofgratitude






John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”

1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures


If you don't believe that Jesus died for our sins, you simply don't share in the love of God.


My question for you is: Do you believe that Jesus died for our sins, or are you for some reason trying to avoid that issue? If so, why are you dancing around it?



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 10:26 PM
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a reply to: lightofgratitude

Actually, that is both blasphemy as well as theologically absurd. First of all, without God defining love for us, we would all have our own opinion of what love was and how it is expressed. And thats just the easiest way to prove no atheist will ever be in right standing with God. Secondly the Bible clearly states that God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ is the only path to salvation. Never does the Bible imply that if someone is capable of love then they are no longer in need of an almighty savior.

And to the person who said wouldn't that make God pointless... That statement alone demonstrates the level in which you are deceived and full of pride. God does not exist for us, but we exist so that we might serve God.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:17 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You have placed Ritual above Grace. Until you accept that Grace is greater than ritual you will fail to see clearly.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:24 PM
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a reply to: Isurrender73

No.

The ritual communicates grace. Ritual is the language of the subconscious mind. Until you realize and believe the meaning behind the ritual, you will not be oriented to grace.



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:35 PM
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a reply to: hxc408

The Holy Spirit dwells within us and teaches us the law without the need for any book.


Romans 2
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.


If you understood this passage than you would understand this about the athiest. If an atheist claims to follow the rule of selflessness which puts love above selflessness they prove the Holy Spirit has written the code of love onto their hearts. All of this apart from any belief in God or his Son.

God's Grace that came through is his son is extended to all who do right by following the law of the Spirit written onto their hearts, not just those who believe. This is why it is said 1 Timothy 4 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Salvation and Grace are not the exclusive right for those who believe in him, they are a free gift written onto all mens hearts. Only those who forsake what has been made clear to them by God through the Holy Spirit written onto their hearts will face God's wrath.


Romans 118 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.


God is Love. Love is the path to peace and unity. Love is selflessness and not selfishness. Those who follow this path which has been written on the hearts of all mankind since the creation of the world will find the Grace of God.


edit on 9-10-2018 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2018 @ 11:42 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Isurrender73

No.

The ritual communicates grace. Ritual is the language of the subconscious mind. Until you realize and believe the meaning behind the ritual, you will not be oriented to grace.



You believe that God loves only those who obey the ritual as you see it. You have been lead astray by a false message.

God's Grace is a free gift to all. There is nothing anyone could do or believe to earn what you claim only belongs to you and those who believe what you believe. Your self-righteousness based on your belief is poison. You drink the poison without ever seeing the hate it breeds. You diminish the power of the cross with your poison.



posted on Oct, 10 2018 @ 12:09 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73

Again, no.

God used the ritual to present Himself to us, and to show that first someone must be judged for our sins before we could enter into a relationship with Him. Christ bore that judgment for you. The gift is free to all who will believe. If you don't believe, then you are effectively walking away from God. Lack of faith is the lack of love.

But I really don't have to prove this point to anyone. God wrote His Law into our hearts. We all possess the knowledge that God exists, that we all sin against Him, and that we need a savior in order to have a relationship with Him. That knowledge is in every single one of us. Its the realization that needs to be completed through faith. To possess the knowledge, but to flee from the realization is deception. It is the source of frustration in all of humanity....the rejection of God's love.

I urge you to discuss this issue privately with God.



posted on Oct, 10 2018 @ 12:17 AM
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a reply to: lightofgratitude

YTou might want to read the whole lot in context, not just the bits that agree with your own theology



posted on Oct, 10 2018 @ 12:33 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Abraham was given God's Grace before the ritual not after it. Likewise Grace is a gift that is given because God choses it not because of ritual.

I have discussed this privately with God. Which is why I am able to let go of the doctrine that has been handed down by those who claim to be the elect simply because they ritualistically follow what they believe is true.

I have no need for rituals. I know that God's Grace covered me through the Holy Spirit and that his Grace was with me as a non believer just as it is with me now that I believe. Because there is nothing I could have done to recieve it. What needed to be done was done withhout me having anything to do with it.


Ephesians 2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


You do not see how your faith in what you believe is boastful, but everyone on the outside can clearly see that you are fillled with self-righteousness. What you believe causes you to be boastful and condescending towards others. You have placed yourself on a pedestal on the right hand of Christ as you proclaim that anyone who doesn't believe what you believe couldn't possibly sit in the high place that you yourself have manged to reach.

You have done nothing to be boastful, God's Grace was there for you and is there with you even when you are lost in your sins.


edit on 10-10-2018 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 10 2018 @ 12:41 AM
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a reply to: Isurrender73

Was it not Abraham who told Isaac that God would provide the sacrifice for the ritual?...The ritual of atonement.

Abraham was looking forward to the cross. We look back at it.



You do not see your faith in what you believe as boastful, but everyone on the outside can clearly see that you are fillled with self-righteousness. What you believe causes you to be boastful and condescending towards others. You have placed yourself on a pedestal on the right hand of Christ as you proclaim that anyone who doesn't believe what you believe couldn't even possibly sit in the high place that you yourself have manged to reach.


How bold of you to pass judgment. For your sake, I hope you have removed the log from your own eye first.




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