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what do you think of the electoral college?

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posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 01:08 AM
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Just to make it clear why we need the Electoral College, for anyone who is still confused -



No, densely populated cities do not have the right to choose the president for the rest of the nation.




posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 04:10 AM
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originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
People who are against the EC are the reason it exists. The end.


I do believe that is the first post of yours, that I have seen, that I agree with.
Having just had a coworker today mention wanting to abolish the EC.
I am impressed.


Ehhh. Give me another day and I'll be back to saying there's no REAL difference between the parties (There (probably) isn't but the stated purpose of the EC is (theoretically) sound).

So, in actual practice, the EC really only serves to keep the peace. In reality, the parties are all basically the same (IMO) but it is human nature (rather than the EC) that is the culprit there. No matter what you try to do in order to compensate for the corrupt nature of humanity, it will simply find another path.


edit on 6-10-2018 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-10-2018 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 06:18 AM
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originally posted by: Aallanon
a reply to: MisterSpock

Why do you think that?



Ummm...Mister Spock...is a lover of the fine use of sarcasm...as am I...

He uses it frequently and masterfully...it is indeed an art form...and a science...

That's why he's one of my fave posters...

But then...I have so many fave posters...





YouSir



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 07:09 AM
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originally posted by: MisterSpock
It's a major detriment to "our democracy".
.......



We live in a democratic republic....not a democracy.



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 07:33 AM
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a reply to: Aallanon

Wow!! This really was worth the read, Aallanon. I understood the theory behind the electoral college but it takes on a deeper meaning when you apply specifics to it. Thanks so much for posting this. Every Junior High and High School kid as well as those at higher levels of education should have to read and understand this. I hear so much griping about how unfair it is.



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 07:38 AM
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originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
People who are against the EC are the reason it exists. The end.


I do believe that is the first post of yours, that I have seen, that I agree with.
Having just had a coworker today mention wanting to abolish the EC.
I am impressed.


Ehhh. Give me another day and I'll be back to saying there's no REAL difference between the parties (There (probably) isn't but the stated purpose of the EC is (theoretically) sound).

So, in actual practice, the EC really only serves to keep the peace. In reality, the parties are all basically the same (IMO) but it is human nature (rather than the EC) that is the culprit there. No matter what you try to do in order to compensate for the corrupt nature of humanity, it will simply find another path.



I love your post Brian, wish it wasn't true, but it is right on. There will always be a portion of humans that will find a way to corrupt any social organization or system that is created. The level of corruption will vary, dependent upon the ease to corrupt it and the potential benefits to those that would corrupt, another variable being the time the organization or system has been in existence. The reason the corruption will occur is for personal gain. I have yet to find an exception to this.
edit on 6-10-2018 by pointessa because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-10-2018 by pointessa because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 08:56 AM
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posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 09:37 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian



California has 12, million people more than Texas. Then add in Oregon Washington and 1/2 the eastern coast. And your reply will still be but but but Texas .

California and California alone was responsible for Clintons win on the popular vote .


edit on 6-10-2018 by Fallingdown because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-10-2018 by Fallingdown because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 10:02 AM
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originally posted by: Somethingsamiss
I think it needs to go.

We should have a popular vote for any election of a public official.


Well we do at the state level, each state is basically its own country formed under a federal Government for the union of them all. What you purpose is to have a few states govern 50 and that is not the way it was design to work. We have states with only 3 votes and CA has 55, come on...isn't that enough advantage for one state of 50?

The coolest part of America is we have 50 different places you can live with each one somewhat unique as to the will of the people living there. There are reasons as to why I would never live in CA unless some idiot would be willing to pay me much more than I'm worth, and I have that choice...if all of America was like CA where could I go for my values?


edit on 6-10-2018 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 10:03 AM
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I like the electoral college, especially after knowing that illegal immigrants are encouraged to vote in major cities & that @ 39 million Social Security numbers have been stolen by illegal immigrants. People need to remember that we live in a democratically elected representative republic, not a democracy. In a democracy the majority rules. The majority in the U.S. are straight white Christians. White privilege is just another word for democracy. In Africa there is black privealage, in Asia there is Asian privealage, in Latin America there is Latinx privealage & so on. If people want to get rid of the electoral college all they have to do is amend the constitution. The same is true with infringing on ones gun rights & eliminating due-process. There's a legal process outlined in the constitution on how to amend it if that's what 3/4 of the states agree to do.

Article V

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.
edit on 6-10-2018 by JBIZZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: LordAhriman




Trump will come and go too...like all the past Presidents..What his views are means little compared to the Constitution and our system.



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: Aallanon

Great post


Glad to see this making its rounds. Perhaps now they'll understand why their popular vote arguments fall on deaf ears. As you said, Trump won ~95% of counties nation-wide. That is a mandate if I've ever heard one, along with control of the entire Federal government and the majority of most State houses



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: JBIZZ

You're right. And amending the Constitution to infringe on gun rights (or any Constitution right) would be a great way to fracture the nation irreparably and plunge this nation into a furious civil war (we're already teetering on that knife edge, I believe)



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 10:36 AM
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a reply to: theatreboy

Thank you. Their bastard "Democracy" isn't mentioned one single time in our Constitution.


Republicanism = Article 4 Section 4 US Constitution. Promises us a "Republican form of government" not some BS "democracy"

Who wants a society that allows a majority of any size to impose their will on a minority? This is just as bad as letting a minority dictate things to a majority. All "majority" actions must be constrained within the very specific specifications of the Constitution, and must always be well on the side of "permissible" under its Immovable & Immutable Protections of our Unalienable Rights, set in stone under penalty of ......well, just ask our framers.
edit on 10/6/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 11:31 AM
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i am more interested in what the electoral college thinks about me



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 11:47 AM
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I think the electoral college is working just as it was designed to do. It keeps major population hubs from dictating their will onto lesser populated states. If only major cities with large populations were allowed to decide the President every four years, then the candidates would never again pay any attention to or set foot in small states. I also am severely skeptical of any cries by one political party or another to get rid of the electoral college when they lose...if they win they think it’s hunky dory. The OP did a great job of breaking down the numbers of the last election to show how thr counties won were heavily weighted toward Trump.
edit on 6/10/2018 by xtradimensions because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 01:23 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Aallanon


Those democratic states where people are given free stuff just to vote dem, shouldn't run the country IMO.



1. The electoral college is an antiquated vestige, created at a time when there were 13 states and when the concern that one or two of them would dominate the federal government to the detriment of the rest was a thing. States had a lot more autonomy and there weren't a lot em.

2. Is there another Western democracy where a candidate can win a majority of the vote and the other guy becomes the chief executive?

3. Republicans like it for an obvious reason. It's like Affirmative Action for the rural vote and rural votes tend to favor conservatives. It's like permanent gerrymandering in presidential elections. If not for the EC, Republicans would have only won 1 of the last 5 presidential elections.

4. in a state like mine, NJ, the 4th least dependent btw, my vote for president effectively counts as 1/3 of that of a person in a state like Wyoming. Why is that legit?


5. Which brings me to another point which is that EC is so much less about states than it is parties which is not how it was envisioned either I'm sure.

6. And of course the other purpose of the EC, making electors a stopgap against a highly motivated populist minority from installing some lunatic despot, has essentially been neutered, never used to any effect and if it were, that'd probably end in blood in the streets.

7. So yeah, to hell with the EC. I'm tired of paying more taxes and having less say.

8. Let the EC ever start favoring the Democrats (which is nearly impossible to imagine so perpetual baked in advantage for whichever is the conservative party) and watch how Republican opinions flip.



I labeled by number your opinions so I could help you better understand your error in analytical thinking.

1. it is not antiquated by any sense. the reason for its formation is still just as valid, to keep high population zones from dictating the future of everyone else.

2. Lets do a list of other states and nations that do Electoral Colleges since you apparently are trying to imply this is a "stupid thing only done here"

vOther countries with electoral college systems include Burundi, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Madagascar, Myanmar, Pakistan, Trinidad and Tobago and Vanuatu. Both the French Senate and the Seanad Éireann (Senate) in Ireland are chosen by electoral colleges.


now lets look at a list of states with Popular Mob Rule voting system
Argentina
Brazil
Chile
Columbia
Cyprus
Georgia
Ghana
Mexico
Peru

The countries that have a voting system more to your liking also have some of the worst criminal elements and corruption in the world. and all the ones listed are 3rd world and not doing so well....

so much for your opinion being backed by any facts that favor it...

3. Rural states dont tend to favor conservatives, they just have a lot of conservative voters. if you think they should favor more dems then you are going to need to convince your city boys to go live in the part of the country that works hard so you can have so much choice in your supermarket foods.

that favorite meal your mother makes? that thanksgiving turkey? that Salad you ordered at a restaurant? none of that would be there without those flyover states. Your welcome.

4. It counts as only one third LEGIT because YOU live in a Melting pot population zone. wyoming has less people, why should your town be able to override the voice of people in a state you have never lived?
If you want to increase your voting power then move to Wyoming, point in fact if you want the majority to have a voice why dont you all move around all over the US and cast your votes to see if spread out enough that it would make a difference?

you call it an "Affirmative Action" buffer yet you do realize that the Majority of Ethnics in the US is overwhelming Caucasian? without the EC Minority groups in the United States would not have any representation as every agenda would only have the express goal of focusing on the "White" population to get their votes...

Also NJ is lucky their votes count at all, considering what I have heard people say about NJ...


5. its not about States or Parties, its about Balance in Elections by representing people according to their District. you clearly are not researching this thoroughly but instead are throwing out opinions without evidence or merit.

6.

6. And of course the other purpose of the EC, making electors a stopgap against a highly motivated populist minority from installing some lunatic despot, has essentially been neutered, never used to any effect and if it were, that'd probably end in blood in the streets.


If it was Neutered then explain how everything you described in the above quote describes exactly what happened in 2016.
Electors stopped your highly triggered racists from putting "Hazy Hillary" in office. and was used to great effect.

I find your claim in that quote revealing of your confirmation Bias and also am bemused you failed to see the irony of what you stated when you attempted to imply that they never did it when anyone who was around in 2016 can objectively disagree with your claims in regards to No.6

the rest of your rant is not worth the time replying to. you once again failed to porperly commit to due diligence in preparing a fact based argument and once again I cut it to pieces like wet paper.

Especially on No.2 and No.6 you a complete lack of knowledge in your understanding of the facts and evidence.

"Do your Research" ~Benedict Cumberbatch -Sherlock




posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 11:20 PM
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originally posted by: Aallanon
Before you answer here are some facts that might interest you,


Electoral College. A 39 second read (Well worth reading and passing along).

In their infinite wisdom, the United States' founders created the Electoral College to ensure the STATES were fairly represented. Why should one or two densely populated areas speak for the whole of the nation? The following list of statistics has been making the rounds on the Internet. It should finally put an end to the argument as to why the Electoral College makes sense. Do share this.

It needs to be widely known and understood. There are 3,141 counties in the United States. Trump won 3,084 of them. Clinton won 57. There are 62 counties in New York State. Trump won 46 of them. Clinton won 16. Clinton won the popular vote by approx. 1.5 million votes. In the 5 counties that encompass NYC, (Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Richmond & Queens) Clinton received well over 2 million more votes than Trump. (Clinton only won 4 of these counties; Trump won Richmond) Therefore these 5 counties alone, more than accounted for Clinton winning the popular vote of the entire country.

These 5 counties comprise 319 square miles. The United States is comprised of 3,797,000 square miles. When you have a country that encompasses almost 4 million square miles of territory, it would be ludicrous to even suggest that the vote of those who inhabit a mere 319 square miles should dictate the outcome of a national election. Large, densely populated Democrat cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc.) DO NOT and SHOULD NOT speak for the rest of our country! But that 319 square miles are where the majority of our nation's problems foment. Well worth the 39 seconds to read? Now please pass it on.


www.onepoliticalplaza.com...

Does it surprise anyone to here this info?

Those democratic states where people are given free stuff just to vote dem, shouldn't run the country IMO.

ETA last thread got closed because it was all copy pasta


But that doesn't appease those of the majority who voted against Trump...Their argument makes sense IF their position of majority rule was the law...What they will not accept is that it doesn't matter what we or they think of the Electoral College...It IS the law...If they don't like it, the Constitution provides a way to change that law...

What the globalists have done is to convince the people that The United States of America is ONE State...And then of course majority rule makes more sense...But we are not ONE State...We are FIFTY States with each being Sovereign with the ability and right to set up their own laws, within the framework of the Constitution...

We are not a Democracy where the majority rules...We are a Republic where we make laws and follow the laws...



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 11:38 PM
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a reply to: AutisticEvo

Text1. The electoral college is an antiquated vestige, created at a time when there were 13 states and when the concern that one or two of them would dominate the federal government to the detriment of the rest was a thing. States had a lot more autonomy and there weren't a lot em.

It's still a 'thing'...The people of Detroit could vote in things which are good for those in Detroit but bad for everyone else thru out the rest of the State...The same goes for New York City and the rest of New York State and many other States...And we still have the autonomy if our State gov't would force the issue...


2. Is there another Western democracy where a candidate can win a majority of the vote and the other guy becomes the chief executive?

We are not a Democracy...Why do you guys keep saying that??? We are a Republic...We are 50 Republics...Most city people do not hunt...Those city people could and would vote to take away my right to hunt and own guns, if we were a Democracy...They could change the voting age to 14 and those young minds could and would be easily manipulated slick politicians like Obama, or Clinton...


3. Republicans like it for an obvious reason. It's like Affirmative Action for the rural vote and rural votes tend to favor conservatives. It's like permanent gerrymandering in presidential elections. If not for the EC, Republicans would have only won 1 of the last 5 presidential elections.

But if the shoe was on the other foot, you guys'd love the EC...



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 11:51 PM
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originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Just to make it clear why we need the Electoral College, for anyone who is still confused -



No, densely populated cities do not have the right to choose the president for the rest of the nation.


False, how do you know that we in the country aren't better off with # filled streets, government needles and sky high crime rates.

These dense urban areas just want the other 90 percent of the country to move into the next stage of America.

Shut, drugs, crime and debauchery. It's the future.
edit on 6-10-2018 by MisterSpock because: (no reason given)




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