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Peeing!!! in My Own Pool: The Problem of Tibetanism

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posted on Nov, 4 2018 @ 09:10 AM
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Part 5

The lie of omission is sometimes the most troublesome one.

I don't remember who among Rinpoche's students found our first meditation hall. It was a three thousand square foot space on the second or third floor of a building near Yonge and Queen Sts., at 14 Queen St. East.

That block was redeveloped years ago and the building is no longer there.

We started to make the space habitable for our purposes by covering the floor with "ten test", a kind of fiberboard that came in 4' by 8' sheets. We then covered that with a thin but strong orange colored industrial carpeting material. Most of the three thousand square feet of the space was covered in this material, so we had large rolls of it for the purpose. We put together a small area near the window overlooking the street, for having lunch, coffee, etc.

I and others helped with this work but the real prime movers were the university professor and two of Rinpoche's students who had been studying engineering at the University of Toronto. It was likely one of these three that first found this rental situation for the center.

This all might seem quite unimportant in the context of my story, but it is very important. We, a small group of Rinpoche's students, less than ten people, did virtually all of the work establishing this meditation venue. When that happens, in any group, there is an emotional commitment to the situation. Relationships become tighter as problems are overcome, together.

One can use the term "esprit de corps". We were starting to become a team. Five or so students, who were really focused on Rinpoche, and not on one of the other three lamas who had students using this Dharma center, began to be very cohesive and open with one another, at least as far as this project went.

The two former engineering students were particularly "charmed" by the university professor. These were young people who had dropped out of engineering in second year, had nothing really to do of a compelling interest, and threw themselves unreservedly into our efforts. The university professor really had them jumping through hoops for him during this period and they loved very minute of it.

We set up a shrine at one end of the meditation hall, consisting of elevated shelves covered by colored cloths upon which were placed statues and ritual implements. This was overseen by Rinpoche and done according to his wishes.

These shrine altars can become a catch all for a wide variety of fetishistic offerings, particularly photos, little statues, plastic flowers and the like, placed there by students in the grip of various degrees of devotional fervor. This sort of thing would start to accumulate and every once in a while Rinpoche would have to clear it out. Nobody else would dare. He would, from time to time, remove some of these things with the words, "too much mess."

It was at this hall, after a period of weeks during which I proved that I was a reliable worker for the center, that I met Rinpoche.

The professor had at one point said to me, "You may not like some of the other members but you will love Rinpoche."

Initially, the near exact opposite was true. I liked the other members insofar as I knew them, which was insofar as we worked together getting our meditation hall set up.

My first meeting with Rinpoche, introduced to him by the university professor, did not go particularly well. He seemed wary and aloof. I don't know why that was.

With the hindsight of almost seventy years of experience, I can say that I have encountered this before, usually in people who are up to something, people with a plan that they think I might obstruct in some way, or people who like to surround themselves by people they can easily dominate and control. Numerous organizations operate in that way, where the controlling personalities prefer to be surrounded by submissive people in debtor relationships to them.

With Rinpoche, I didn't know exactly what was going on in his mind at the time, because our introductory meeting was brief. I wasn't alarmed at all. I was used to adapting to whomever was at the head of the class at university, ignoring disagreeable personality traits and simply getting on with getting educated. I had a similar attitude to Rinpoche and to Tibetan Buddhism. It couldn't have been more inappropriate.

Perhaps Rinpoche had been disturbed that I did not appear sufficiently submissive in my initial approach to him. That was very likely.

It was true.

Rinpoche, at the time, had certainly acclimated to the West and to Toronto, to a certain degree, but he was an old style lama. Although he was in his early forties when I met him, and was twenty-eight when he came out of Tibet in 1959, his mentality was "old school Tibetan".

This is as hard core as it gets in meditation. Think of photos of the great lamas of Tibet prior to the Chinese invasion. Sometimes they smile but most often you see an austere, unsmiling face perched on a high throne, at least for the camera. Of course joy rises naturally, if you let it, and these people knew all about that.

This, three abbots and a lama, is from, probably Kham, in 1930, the year before Rinpoche was born there.

tibetanmaterialhistory.wikischolars.columbia.edu...



When we were working on our book, Rinpoche would often keep going until I started to flag a little from sitting cross legged so long and just the general stress of trying to take dictation from him, trying to get it right, and trying to maintain patience and good humor.

At one point I suggested that he just write the book in Tibetan so that we could translate that together. He didn't want to do it that way.

When I was at the point of exhaustion, he, fresh as a daisy, seeing that I needed a rest, would say, "Time for mantra break", and we would do mantras for a while . . . to revive ourselves. Not my idea of a "break".

It shows the mentality of this sort of person, very old school Tibetan, all meditation all the time.

He had never seen an automobile until he came out of Tibet. He said that people, generally, weren't familiar with modern sciences like astronomy and that during an eclipse, there was a fear that the sun and moon would collide.

He told other stories of "old style" Tibet that I cannot tell here. He had a taste for the bizarre. These stories, the "thigh bone trumpet", the "show off monk" and "loyalty to Karmapa", are too far outside the present historical context and odd enough that they could be used by malicious people for malicious purposes.

One time we were sitting together in a sidewalk café on Yonge St, having a snack, when a diminutive midget with his legs in braces appeared, laboring his way past us on crutches. As we watched this person, Rinpoche said, "There are many interestings in samsara."

The unspoken message I took from that remark was that samsara was, in Gampopa's words, "notorious for being endless" and to be careful of my karma.

I, and others of his close students, were real dog's bodies for him during this period, and I say that with a smile on my face. The professor and I told him that he could use our skulls for ritual skull cups if we passed away suddenly.

I think he was pleased.

edit on 4-11-2018 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 4 2018 @ 09:22 AM
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a reply to: ipsedixit

It seems to me that not only could you all learn from him, but that he could also learn from all of you (different perspectives, different cultures etc.).



posted on Nov, 4 2018 @ 09:29 AM
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a reply to: InTheLight

Yes, and both happened. It was very cute when, in his late seventies, people remarked on his doing word processing in Tibetan on the computer.

He said, "My students pushing me."



posted on Nov, 4 2018 @ 10:19 AM
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originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: InTheLight

Yes, and both happened. It was very cute when, in his late seventies, people remarked on his doing word processing in Tibetan on the computer.

He said, "My students pushing me."


Wonderful memories and lessons to be learned, thanks for sharing.



posted on Nov, 4 2018 @ 04:59 PM
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Note: The source for the photo from Kham, above, has indicated that the people in it are three abbots and a lama. I think the three abbots are actually government officials, or maybe nobility from the region, from their dress. Apologies. I should have caught that right away. Note the long sleeves.



posted on Nov, 4 2018 @ 06:49 PM
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originally posted by: ipsedixit
Note: The source for the photo from Kham, above, has indicated that the people in it are three abbots and a lama. I think the three abbots are actually government officials, or maybe nobility from the region, from their dress. Apologies. I should have caught that right away. Note the long sleeves.


None of them look happy, or do they think the camera will steal their souls?



posted on Nov, 8 2018 @ 08:48 AM
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a reply to: InTheLight

I think it is likely just an unfamiliar situation, "photographed by the foreigner". Status is very important in this culture. The effort would probably have been to be dignified but not too dignified (ostentatious), which often boiled down to being present and patient, lightening up when it was finished.

You hear stories occasionally, from western students of photographs of certain lamas in certain situations, coming out overexposed, the implication being that the lama being photographed sabotaged the shot using one of his "directed energy skills". There are incidents reported of other sorts of interference with western students who were misbehaving at ceremonies. I heard one in which a couple of rascals were projectile vomiting as they fled the scene.

There is a lot of this kind of anecdotal data that comes out of trips to "mysterious India". Years ago an American Hari Krishna devotee, living in Amsterdam, told me about being a "seeker" in the Himalayas, before he joined the Hari Krishnas and meeting a Hindu yogi in a cave, who was able to completely immobilize him, at a distance, using some powerful mentally directed energy. He wanted to learn yoga from such people but found that they would not teach him.

People from these cultures and American (in the broadest sense) aboriginal, Siberian aboriginal, African or African originated/influenced cultures are grossly underestimated by the establishment in the West.
edit on 8-11-2018 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2018 @ 08:45 AM
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Hi OP & all contributors,

I'm thus far up to page three in this fascinating thread - I have to say, it's been one of the most fascinating threads/ articles that I've ever encountered online - or indeed, anywhere online. In terms ofeducation on largely hidden things, I don;t think ATS has ever seen anything of equivalent value since its inception. Alright it's not an earth-shaking political expose, but it absolutely affirms my many & varied suspicions that all was not well in Buddhist paradise/Nirvana.

The details of psychic domination & influence at a distance I can fully buy into, having had some experience of being victimised in the psychic realm. Also the use of lesser spirits as 'weaponised souls' against my person/essence I also have experience of, as the target of what I can only presume were acosmic satanists (I base this on a number of key observations about the strategic targeting socially, the fealty of criminal gangs to powerful & wealthy 'patrons' with occult overtones in everything they do - also the use of hypnosis & binaural beats to put me in a sort of MK-Ultra programming state). All these practives can safely be called black magic - but when I sought the wisdom of a group of Tibetan Buddhists giving talks in Oxford, England, I was met with psychic targeting & abusive mind-reading with verbalised mockery based on my deepest, darkest fears, such as they were at the time of that incident.

In the years that followed I became a Christian, evangelical - yet retaining great respect for all traditions - at first. Then I began to perceive the cracks in the superstructure of all traditions of men, being corrupted to some degree or other. I have a healthy skeptisicm of my own faith group too. I can honestly say that of all Eastern traditions, the one which most seeks Truth, without acceptance of half measures or hypocrisy, is Taoism. It is the most openly accepting of the natural state of humanity as sentient beings in nature (which also is, in some aspects, sentient as well).

These days I consider that a conception of my own path would be akin to charismatic Christian with experience in meditative mysticism (perhaps similar to Bhakti yoga, if memory serves, the yoga of devotion as a path to enlightenment?) - this meditative Christian faith is lightly couched in an appreciation for the nature of the Tao, as an upwelling of Life abundant from the reservoir of eternity, in the mind of God.


"In Him we live & move & have our being"

Book of Hebrews


I'm immensely enjoying the thread thus far, and really appreciate your honesty & candid accounting of the flaws which, as you'll of course know, was almost inevitable such a long time after the historical Buddha. The information is also clarifying for me several of the techniques which I now recognise as having been used against me by the Satanic fraternity which took aim at me when I fell through the cracks of polite society as a teenager. Now, I'm committed to 'work out [my] salvation with fear & trembling'.

Thanks for the journey, I really do think ATS should make this a sticky thread, it's invaluable data for consideration of the blanket philosophy which Western politicans have flaunted a kinship with, as per usual not understanding the forces they are deferring to.




posted on Nov, 10 2018 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: ipsedixit

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my comment. You are an excellent writer and I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge.

I agree with your comparison of the corruption within "Tibetanism" as being similar to finding your Christian sect riddled with pedophiles. Certainly we would have to question whether we were being challenged ( by righteous powers above us ) to learn when NOT to turn the other cheek. Or are those lessons only for those that practice no religion....?



posted on Nov, 12 2018 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Thanks for the very thoughtful response. I think many perceptive people, whatever their nominal designation in the world of spiritual realization, will be able to recognize parts of their own experience in yours.

When people really face up to reality, they face the reality of our spiritual nature. People have numerous indications of this, such as the feeling that departed family members are still with them, looking out for them, instances of what seems to be telepathy between family members, etc. These things are very common, but most people don't investigate further. They just acknowledge them and move on.

The most profound spiritual paths lead to power and power, as is well known, invariably corrupts. Pursuing any deep spiritual path has serious inherent dangers. Getting into trouble is almost impossible to avoid.

I hope to elaborate more on my own experience but at the moment I am feeling a considerable amount of pressure to shut up.



posted on Nov, 12 2018 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: HarryJoy

Thanks for your comment. I agree.

Trungpa Rinpoche made a distinction between compassion and "idiot compassion". Even a virtuous activity like extending compassion to another person can be an act of foolishness in certain circumstances.



posted on Nov, 12 2018 @ 11:23 AM
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The Nun - Part 1

I'm not an authority, of course, but it seems to me that the chief benefit of incarnation as a human being is mental stability. The mind is very "tippy" and being in a body, fixes it to a great degree. Out of body, any impulse or influence can whisk it away into the experience of and the working out of innumerable, not necessarily wholesome or profitable, experiences, of almost unending duration.

In the context of Buddhadharma, we call our human incarnation the "precious human birth", for that reason. One must make the most of it. One must achieve the stabilization of the mind in Shunyata, so that one need not depend any longer on physical incarnation, except as a means of pursuing the fulfilment of one's Bodhisattva vow.

We had been in our second house in the east end of Toronto for a couple of years when a young single mother started coming to the house/center. She was renting accomodation in a house owned by a university professor a couple of doors away from us. She had a little boy, about five years old. She had just got back from Spain, after having left her Spanish "husband". He was the little boy's father.

She was very enthusiastic and happy to have found us. I didn't really give her much of my attention at the time. She was a new person and my mind was very preoccupied with "center stuff", mostly political, although not generally acknowledged as such by Rinpoche's students. Rinpoche used to say, at regular intervals, that politics was bad and that he was not political.

(I didn't realize it at the time, but a declaration of independence from politics is the most political statement that it is possible to make. Dictators are independent of politics but nobody would ever say a dictator was nonpolitical, would they? They exist at an extreme of political suppression.)

It wasn't too long before the oddities of this new arrival began to become apparent. Her mind was very "tippy" and unstable. She was a person who functioned in an intellectual mode without any intellectual foundation in rationality. She was an idealist/fantasist. I found out later, after she had been ordained a nun, that one of her greatest fears was that being in a state of sexual virginity was a condition for ordination. She was all in her head and very disconnected from reality.

Things went along as before, with her present at the periphery of center activities. She meditated. She brought her son to the center. She attended our functions. She wasn't a problem. She was just a little nutty.

She hadn't moved into the center at that point.

One day, the university professor, from whom she was renting, appeared at our door. He was upset about something that had happened with her at his place. We found out later, when she moved in with us, just how lazy and slovenly she was, so I assumed it might have been related to that.

The university professor knew she had been coming to the center. he must have believed that we had some kind of influence over her behavior. He was upset and was urging me, insistently, to "give her a lecture". He wanted her straightened out. I told him that I couldn't do that. He smiled, realizing that he had been unable to stampede me into "lecturing" her. He left.

This is a good example of the typical way in which our very busy culture attempts to deal with people who don't or can't fit into our ways of organizing our lives. At the time I would probably have wished it were so simple as delivering a timely lecture.

To be fair to the professor, this woman always manifested intellectually, so recourse to a lecture would have seemed appropriate. Beneath the brainy facade, she was a scrambled egg. He wasn't the last one to be fooled by her persona. By this time I wasn't up to giving anyone lectures. I had come to be seasoned in Dharma and in Rinpoche's "politics". I just held my station, trying to float like a cork in turbulent water.

She had spent the previous six or seven years on the island of Formentera, living with a somewhat rustic Spanish fisherman and his extended family, had given birth to a son and was completely innocent of the 1970s, as "we" know them.

Just to try to clarify the sort of problem she embodied, one of the center members told me that after getting her first utility bill where she lived, she went to pay the bill at the nearest hydro substation, letting her little boy run around inside (!!!) while she searched for someone who could take the payment.

She thought one paid the bill here.



This woman's history in our Dharma center is truly amazing. It illustrates facets of Vajrayana practice, particularly "fake it 'til you make it", which is the true cornerstone of any guru's exploitation of stooges/tools/students to consolidate power.

When the woman I am referring to first came to our center, she wasn't particularly remarkable and made an effort to fit in and didn't make waves. There was some minor friction with another woman who lived in the center with her own child.

It wasn't until she actually moved into the center that the real dimensions of the problem started to reveal themselves.

It is only through the benefit of hindsight, after many years, that I realized that for a Tibetanist/Vajrayana guru, even sociopaths, at any stage of development, have their uses, and this woman was a ruthless sociopath.

When she moved in she shared a kitchen with three single men, one of whom was me. She was a complete slob, absolutely indifferent to leaving every square foot of space in the kitchen filled with her clutter, of unwashed dishes, food containers, litter, crumbs, etc. It took the concerted efforts of all three men to get her to clean up after herself. We kept relentless pressure on her to be neat and she conformed as long as the pressure was maintained.

She had things to do with regard to arranging for her son to enroll in school. Eventually he had to repeat his first year because he did not do well (was not happy) in Spanish immersion, despite having spent his first five years in Spain.

I used to feel some compassion for her and her son, and would pick up a treat for them if I stopped in a bakeshop on a trip downtown. She would take the treat, but never said "Thank you." This continued for a year or two.

I didn't change my behavior, because I didn't think this person, no matter how unbalanced, should be permitted to have an influence on my own standards of behavior. I was very naive in this. I had too much faith in the power of education and rationality. I didn't appreciate that deeply ingrained mental habits of behavior needed to be recognized for the impediments that they really are. One can compare the mind to a very hard object. Getting it to change its shape requires considerable time and effort, sometimes over many lifetimes.

In the contemplation of the rehabilitation of an ingrained sociopath one must think almost in terms of "geological time" before change can be expected, certainly, in ordinary terms, it requires decades of socialization, in the right environment.

Note: This is not a character assassination. The nun and I have very cordial relations now and as the story goes on I came to be greatly in her debt.
edit on 12-11-2018 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2018 @ 03:35 PM
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The Nun - Part 2

The nun's odd social manifestations, I am convinced, emerged from some fundamental level of mental incapacity. A few minutes ago I was having lunch with her and we were discussing her time in Formentera, which we had talked about a few times in the past. We also talked about some of our neighbors who had illnesses or who had had family members, including children, pass away.

I don't remember the details of this now, but the nun had made some remark during the conversation, and as I was breaking off to do something else, she was excited to tell me why she had made the comment.

She felt a need to relate to me, with some degree of excitement or relief, the chain of conversational references that led to her making the remark. She wanted me to know why she had said something.

If this were an isolated incident, I wouldn't mention it, but it is a recurring feature of conversations with her. She feels a need to inform her interlocutor about the chain of associations which led her to make a given comment.

This sort of thing is not of much interest to me, but it is obviously important to her. Is she demonstrating to me, but also to herself, that her thoughts are not completely random, that there is a logic to them?

It is something like that.

An experienced psychologist or psychiatrist might be familiar with such a syndrome.

After a significant period of living with her, observing her behavior, I came to realize that her messiness in the kitchen was nothing so simple as laziness. It was related to her mental state, her "tippyness", and to desperation, I felt, to "fix" things around her in place, by creating gridlock where nothing could happen but at her pace.

She had different sorts of what I would consider sociopathic behavior going on. She was always under foot. I began to think that she would go so far as to actually provoke a beating, simply in order to get attention. She was a black hole of that kind of need. It was impossible to fill it, at least not with treats from the bakeshop.

One day my boss from work telephoned to inform me about a schedule change, and the nun, not yet ordained, just hung up on her. When I found out what had happened, I had to tell my boss that I was sharing accommodations with a person who had mental problems. She understood and everything was OK.

I later learned that "the nun" had fallen in with another sociopathic spiritual lady who had dominated her to the point of stomach upset at the mention of this person's name. On the phone call she might have had a spasm of rebellion at the thought of writing down a message for me. Her emotional weather was like this.

On the other hand, a written message left on the table for her, was read, but not picked up. Someone else would have to pick it up.

She would not accept responsibility for anything. If she made a statement in conversation with others, she would quote someone else as the reason for and origin of her statement.

Her life in Formentera was very basic, the life of a fisherman's young common law wife. They had no electricity and therefore no media contact with the outside world. Everyday they went fishing. She rowed the boat out and he set the lines. They went swimming in the afternoon.

I believe her Spanish boyfriend's extended family, including his mother, took care of household matters, cooking, etc. I don't know the details of what happened after her little boy was born, but difficulties started to arise.

Her mental state may have started to become a concern after four years or so, because she told me that one day her boyfriend's mother announced that "X", the little boy, no longer had to do what his mother, the future nun, said.

The family seems to have come to a conclusion about her, and her boyfriend, I think it is fair to assume, sided with the family.

It is well known that tides in the Mediterranean Sea are almost negligible because there is only a narrow connection between it and the Atlantic Ocean.

There is a flow of water back and forth through the Strait of Gibraltar caused by tides in the Atlantic, and this must be enough, along with the location of the moon and the rotation of the earth, to produce currents in the Mediterranean.

Formentara is a very irregularly shaped island with ocean currents active around it in different ways at different times of the day.



Fishermen on Ibiza or Formentara would be familiar with the variations in the local currents around these islands.

The nun told me that one day her husband wanted to go to collect bird's eggs on a steep, almost cliff like, promontory of the island. She was to row out to a position in the water off the promontory and wait, while he swam ashore and climbed up to look for eggs.

She said that after he had been some time on the cliff, the water began to be very choppy, as the currents in that place had apparently changed. She was in fear of the boat being swamped and began to call out to her husband, to alert him to the danger she was in.

She said that he gave no indication of having heard her. Fortunately other fishermen were in the area and did hear her calls and come to her assistance. Nothing much was made of the incident at the time. It was considered a close call, but it had ended well and was forgotten, except it wasn't forgotten. She accepted her husband's explanation for not having heard her, too high up, too windy, whatever.

One of her characteristics is that she is a very credulous person. She took the excuses at face value and let the incident go without suspicion.

I, myself, would not have been as insouciant about it. The incident gives cause to wonder if circumstances were such that her life might have been in danger if she had stayed in place.

In any event, she had other friends on the island, and conspired with at least one of them to arrange an escape for her and her son. They came back to Canada.

Strictly speaking, she had committed a parental abduction, which is illegal in Canada and probably in Spain. Was it sociopathic behavior under these circumstances? I don't know. It is illegal.
edit on 12-11-2018 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2018 @ 06:49 PM
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a reply to: ipsedixit

You know about the five inversions yes? The main poison of the "precious" human birth is the head and the heart are inverted.

The five skandhas are the direct result of that inversion. The heart becomes poisoned by all of the experiences that invert the person and it all runs into the mind... I suppose this is what you mean by "tippy" and off center.

So you pulled a Hotei give her and her child a little treat; however when asked how he unburdened from the world? He would drop the entire hempen sack of candy he collected for children and walk off. Seems you've dropped the sweets off of your back and yet the nun and her son have taken it's place...

Coping mechanisms is what the typical psycho babble speaks of in how one deals with the present is a direct mirror of the past they are dragging along.

Consider for a moment Nirodha Sammapatti and you'll understand why; when Hotei becoming more burdened than his hemp sack? Would just walk off with only his corpse in tow(or sattva vow as you put it).

His good intention? Was heaven; when that became burdened by anything other than that simple gift of joy? Hell.

That's what living the path by a hairs breadth means.

No one can free another... sure hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting, tactile sensations can lead one up to the lotus throne but someone is already sitting there. Contact being contact; those chains of causation are still intact.

Adhering to the path means no matter where it goes; not the who or what has led you there. In the end Gotama said he was just an arhat or adherent of the path no different than anyone else that had fulfilled the holy life.

Know how the US is poisoned by special treatment of those that have chosen the wrong vocation or livelihood? Like military? Some countries have no such poison of "special treatment" when all citizens must do a stint in the military. However it is still the wrong vocation and livelihood... being compounded that such a thing is more special or deserves a higher place of respect than any other? Only makes things worse all over for everyone; not better.

So of course one has to consider the role of the medicine Buddha; to see those links in causation that become cause of stress and suffering as outlined by the noble truths by living the eight... reversing the wheel of that causation of suffering is as easy as looking at which of the eight where one has fallen off of the path.

When someone would grab Hotei by anything other than the good he brought? He'd drop the hempen sack and let them fall right on into hell with it.

Parrot saying a prayer has not yet entered the marketplace baring his breast and feet... that's the role of a Rinpoche; so all of those having such a job? Thanks for the incarnation and may your next one be an owl... never mind the cuckoo bird; as they have yet to put their corpse behind them and still reek of enlightenment.



posted on Nov, 15 2018 @ 07:19 AM
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a reply to: BEBOG

One cuckoo bird does not bring the Spring. Greek proverb



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