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Stop Making Rape Political.

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posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: Muninn

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Muninn
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

A Rich, Racist, Rapist, Russian Spy for President..

That is the title of one of your threads in the political mud pit.

Lol, what a joke.


Well nice to see you can stay on topic and attack the ball no the player.

Well done you!




Just calling out a hypocrite.


No you're not, your just typing words.....

meaningless....nothing...words.




posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:27 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Muninn

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Muninn
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

A Rich, Racist, Rapist, Russian Spy for President..

That is the title of one of your threads in the political mud pit.

Lol, what a joke.


Well nice to see you can stay on topic and attack the ball no the player.

Well done you!




Just calling out a hypocrite.


No you're not, your just typing words.....

meaningless....nothing...words.



It's like looking into a mirror, right?
Spooky.



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:27 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: notsure1

I made this point on another thread today.

Innocent until proven guilty does not mean that your kids teacher gets to keep on working after being accused of touching the kids up.

They get suspended and they get investigated.

Now I am not saying I believe her or not, I am saying that he cannot possibly be a holding the position of Supreme Court Judge before the allegation is dealt with.
But that's the problem and I won't stand for it.

Just because he is under investigation doesn't mean he stops his duties, you might as well call him guilty.

Nope.


So what in the analogy I just used, teacher, allegedly touching the kids, gets to keep working while being investigated.

No

And to me this is no different, he is a judge, he cannot do that job while himself being investigated for crimes of sexual assault in my view.


The teacher should be allowed to teach until evidence is provided showing their is a reasonable chance these crimes were committed

By your standard, would any anonymous allegation do?

And further more, isn’t it funny how this standard only applied to republicans

Did Ellison step down? How about yes Kennedy, menendez, Cory booker, etc.

How about allegations against Hillary? There were many, yet I don’t recall you calling for her to step down.



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:29 PM
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I think its important to get the gist of this thread.

Yes innocent until proven guilty. BUT during the investigation the accused doesn't get to get on with life as if all was a bowl of cherries.

He's accused of a crime. Thus ineligible to hold a seat as a Supreme Court Justice.

Cased closed. That is all.



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:31 PM
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originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
I think its important to get the gist of this thread.

Yes innocent until proven guilty. BUT during the investigation the accused doesn't get to get on with life as if all was a bowl of cherries.

He's accused of a crime. Thus ineligible to hold a seat as a Supreme Court Justice.

Cased closed. That is all.


Pretty good summary of the thread.

Yeah.



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:31 PM
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originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
He's accused of a crime.


A police report was filed finally? WOW! (Little tip here, he's yet to be accused of any manner of crime. For one to be accused of a crime, a criminal report must be filed with some manner of law enforcement... this has never happened to this man.)



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:32 PM
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The people who made it political was the media, the democrats, and Dr. Ford herself. She could've filed a police report to start an investigation into the allegations, but instead brought her allegations to a highly partisan politician, Senator Feinstein. Basically, your barking up the wrong tree.



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:32 PM
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originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
I think its important to get the gist of this thread.

Yes innocent until proven guilty. BUT during the investigation the accused doesn't get to get on with life as if all was a bowl of cherries.

He's accused of a crime. Thus ineligible to hold a seat as a Supreme Court Justice.

Cased closed. That is all.



I hope you are never accused of a crime that you did not commit.
Karma can be a ugly thing.



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:37 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Isn't that what happened though?

The FBI declined to investigate due to there being no federal crime.

Maryland State Police declined to investigate due to the statute of limitations.

What else did you want to see, other than it treated like any other accusation of its type?



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:37 PM
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originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
I think its important to get the gist of this thread.

Yes innocent until proven guilty. BUT during the investigation the accused doesn't get to get on with life as if all was a bowl of cherries.

He's accused of a crime. Thus ineligible to hold a seat as a Supreme Court Justice.

Cased closed. That is all.


Do you have anything to support your opinion?

Cause I dont see anything in your post except opinion.



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:38 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: notsure1

I made this point on another thread today.

Innocent until proven guilty does not mean that your kids teacher gets to keep on working after being accused of touching the kids up.

They get suspended and they get investigated.

Now I am not saying I believe her or not, I am saying that he cannot possibly be a holding the position of Supreme Court Judge before the allegation is dealt with.


The problem with that is that every single attorney and judge who have looked at this have all said that she couldn't even get this into court.

And even further....not a single one has filed a report.

So...how do you prove someones innocence when the accusers themselves qont do what is needed to do so?

And that is exactly why this is political.



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

And if the investigation finds that Kavanaugh committed sexual assault? Then what?

A poll released today found that the majority of GOP voters think Kavanaugh should still be approved even if Ford's story is found to be true.



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: CirqueDeTruth

Please provide proof that a criminal complaint was filed.

Honestly, i'd love to see that happen. Because then there are legal repercussions for lying on the part of the accuser.



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: burdman30ott6

And if the investigation finds that Kavanaugh committed sexual assault? Then what?

A poll released today found that the majority of GOP voters think Kavanaugh should still be approved even if Ford's story is found to be true.


How does this investigation find this? What kind of evidence would support that?

The poll you refer to is meaningless as the story is so politicized that people are just digging in heels.



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
So I have not really commented on this case around he whose name I cannot spell (kavanaugh) and the allegations of historical sexual assault against him because, well to be quite honest I just don't really feel all that comfortable at times talking about stuff like that. That said however, I do browse the threads, I might not be commenting but I am reading and noticing a really disturbing trend that we have seen before with allegations against other political figures like Trump and yes, even Clinton.

Its the way that some people just seem to be dismissing these allegations as political weapons, dismissing them, as lies created by political opponents and this leads to some really ugly arguments. It is estimated that only 35% of sexual assault cases are actually reported to the police according to the Department of Justice. There are a whole range of reasons why women, and men, don't report sexual assault. Furthermore figures from the FBI report that only 8% of all reports of rape are proven to be falsified.

My point really then is that we should be taking the accusations that come from these women (its mostly women) very seriously. I think that cases like Cosby, Savile and so on demonstrate that there is a growing movement (Call it #metoo if you want) of these monstrous individuals coming to justice and it would be wise to not be so dismissive of claims against sexual assault just because.....politics or fame.

We are in danger of diminishing the seriousness of sexual assault, of adding to the fear that stops victims coming out and speaking the truth, of the horrors they have been subjected to. Women who come out against these men need our empathy not some vile hate-filled post on the internet calling them out as liars because the accusation does not fit in with your own brand of political BS.

Because thats what I keep seeing happening and I am calling it out, individuals who are dismissing allegations of the most serious sexual nature because they are against their favourite political puppet of the month. I think we need to stop making sexual assault so political, I think when a accusation comes forward it should be treated just as serious as any other allegation regardless of who the allegation is against, I don't think this should be a left vs right issue but rather a right vs wrong issue and rape is very wrong and should always be taken very seriously.


Perhaps you could enlighten me on why those who received the allegations did not bring this to the attention of the committee in a CLOSED DOOR SESSION? We were given information that the lady making the accusations wished to remain anonymous. I would submit those to blame for this becoming political are those given the accusations.
With the fbi investigation I would wager we will find out who leaked the accusations and they will be held accountable.



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:40 PM
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I think Christine Ford made "rape"(sexual assault in this particular case) political when she took her allegations to a political entity instead of local law enforcement. Just sayin....

A2D
edit on 2-10-2018 by Agree2Disagree because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

In the made up case you are using as an example involving the teacher, allow me to ask a question. Did the accuser go to the police and file an actual police complaint ? Not a single accuser has actually filed a criminal complaint to date, not a single one.

I do not dismiss the allegations, I even understand not coming forward when it occurred, but now that accusations have been made, file an actual complaint, it's pretty telling that no one has yet



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:42 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: CirqueDeTruth

Please provide proof that a criminal complaint was filed.

Honestly, i'd love to see that happen. Because then there are legal repercussions for lying on the part of the accuser.


Like I pointed out in the OP only 35% of actual sexual assaults are believed to actually be reported on.

A Statute of Limitations for Rape is a bit of a joke but the law is the law I guess.



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:42 PM
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originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
I think its important to get the gist of this thread.

Yes innocent until proven guilty. BUT during the investigation the accused doesn't get to get on with life as if all was a bowl of cherries.

He's accused of a crime. Thus ineligible to hold a seat as a Supreme Court Justice.

Cased closed. That is all.


You couldn't be more wrong.

No charges have been filed. No report with law enforcement has been filed.

This entire thing is for public show unless they do that.

It is purely a political stunt and very obvious to any attorney or judge that has looked at it and has been unbiased and fair in judgement.

Why wont any of the accusers file a report? Any ideas? They have been told if they do the police will investigate.

So why dont they?

The ONLY possible reason is because they would be filing a false claim and it would result in a criminal prosecution of them. There is no other reason.



posted on Oct, 2 2018 @ 01:42 PM
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#SorrySoLong?


originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
So I have not really commented on this case ... because, well to be quite honest I just don't really feel all that comfortable at times talking about stuff like that.

I do, because I've been on both the prosecutorial and defense side of the coin as a paralegal, and unfortunately, I've seen my fair share of true and false allegations surrounding this topic.


Its the way that some people just seem to be dismissing these allegations as political weapons, dismissing them, as lies created by political opponents and this leads to some really ugly arguments. It is estimated that only 35% of sexual assault cases are actually reported to the police according to the Department of Justice. There are a whole range of reasons why women, and men, don't report sexual assault. Furthermore figures from the FBI report that only 8% of all reports of rape are proven to be falsified.

Well, the interesting thing here is that there is no burden to prove innocence in the United States concerning criminal matters. Furthermore, it's damn near impossible to prove that something didn't happen in allegations like this, just like it's damn near impossible to prove that they did barring witnesses, video, or surviving physical evidence.

But what you generally don't see with true rape allegations is a victim waiting 35 or so years to come forward, knowing full well that such an allegation could ruin the personal and professional life of a person at a key point in that person's life.

What you generally don't see is a victim going to their political leaders instead of local law enforcement in order to get the ball rolling on such an allegation.

What you generally don't see in a valid allegation are witnesses pointed out by the victim who either can't corroborate the allegation or outright say that it didn't happen.

What you generally don't see with valid allegations are so many inconsistencies with the story and so many holes in the memory of such a traumatic event. (but if you do, the claimed victim is generally seen as an unreliable witness to their own event and there is a lack of a preponderance of evidence, which is necessary in these cases)

What you generally don't see are politicians chomping at the bit to use said claimed victim as a political chip and dragged through a senate hearing and made public against the wishes of said victim. (SOMEONE on the Dems leaked her name to the media)

See, there are myriad other things that I could point out concerning why there is valid running skepticism surrounding Dr. Ford's claims, and I have spelled out many here and in other threads, as well as has the prosecutor who was questioning Dr. Ford at the senate hearing.


My point really then is that we should be taking the accusations that come from these women (its mostly women) very seriously.

These claims have been taken seriously--to say otherwise would be lying. What hasn't been happening, though, is that she was automatically believed, and that's a good thing.


I think that cases like Cosby, Savile and so on demonstrate that there is a growing movement (Call it #metoo if you want) of these monstrous individuals coming to justice and it would be wise to not be so dismissive of claims against sexual assault just because.....politics or fame.

No, actually, obvious political outcomes and notoriety are perfect reasons WHY to be skeptical of something, especially coupled with everything that we have come to understand about claims from witnesses, changing stories, a claim of innocence, damning report from a prosecutor, etc.

Absolutely, rapists and sexual predators are monstrous individuals, but that doesn't mean that every allegation carries with it merit or an inability to be dissected and scrutinized just because we are in the midst of some "movement."


We are in danger of diminishing the seriousness of sexual assault, of adding to the fear that stops victims coming out and speaking the truth, of the horrors they have been subjected to.

I don't think that you've done appropriate research into the "why" that most women don't report their assaults. It has nothing to do with any sort of stigma of public backlash--that is a false narrative that needs to stop.


Women who come out against these men need our empathy not some vile hate-filled post on the internet calling them out as liars because the accusation does not fit in with your own brand of political BS.

No, they need us to be willing to listen to the allegation and allow information to come out so that we can form an opinion (in this instance...otherwise they should go straight to the police). See, those of us who actually understand how these things work because we've dealt directly with them on multiple occasions know that, while these accusations are serious and true rapes and assaults are horrendous issues for a person (not just women) to have to deal with, they in zero way mandate automatic empathy or a belief in their claim.


Because thats what I keep seeing happening and I am calling it out, individuals who are dismissing allegations of the most serious sexual nature because they are against their favourite political puppet of the month.

While very, very few are doing that, most of us are citing actual valid reasons as to why Ford is coming across as either being dramatically confused as to the assault that happened to her, or that she is wrong altogether and possibly lying (since she keeps doubling down).


I think we need to stop making sexual assault so political, ...

Me too...let's start by telling women that politicians and the political circus of a senate hearing are not the places to deal with such things, especially more than three decades later.


... I think when a accusation comes forward it should be treated just as serious as any other allegation regardless of who the allegation is against, I don't think this should be a left vs right issue but rather a right vs wrong issue and rape is very wrong and should always be taken very seriously.

But rape (which Ford's experience is NOT) and sexual assault get falsely accused against people all of the time--and I do mean all of the time. So, while you are on your high horse 'calling people out' and discussing right-versus-wrong, have you considered the morality of false allegations?

Have you pondered never reporting such things to police and where that falls on your subjective spectrum of right versus wrong?

Have you considered the issue of bringing up such allegations--which CAN NOT BE CHARGED ANYMORE due to statute of limitations--right before a judge is being voted into the Supreme Court?

Have you considered doing such things without any evidence whatsoever, and in fact doing so with evidence (witness testimony) against your claim?

You hold a very emotional, myopic approach to this issue, and I don't believe that you're reading the majority of comments correctly, otherwise you might not be so convinced that there's a massive group of people suspect to her claims simply based on political ideology.

I agree--stop making rape political. Be the change that you want to see.




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