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'Deny Ignorance' huh?

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posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:38 PM
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First off let me introduce myself. I've been visiting this site since before this forum was even up and running ... so if you know how long that is, then you'll know I'm well informed of the information given ... as well as many an elaborate debate.

About my topic ... well I was thinking the other day. There has been an astonishing amount of television depicting government conspiracies over the past decade and a half. And when I think of television, I usually think of propaganda. Which also brought me to another conclusion.

Since the dawn of a lot of these television shows, 'propaganda', per sey, many of the conspiracies arose. Now I'm not saying that most of the infamous information given on this site has been concieved in the past 15 years ... on the contrary, I believe, and know, most of it to be true.

But take a look at this. The Sci-Fi channel, which has shown many classic science fiction t.v. shows such as 'Sliders', the 'X-Files', 'Stargate', 'Stargate Atlantis', 'Outer Limits', and many other shows that I'm sure are really well known amongst the conspiracy theorists, popped up at around the time many of these so called conspiracy theories arose. Well always take look at the paper trail.

The Sci-Fi channel is run by NBC, which also controls CNBC, MSNBC, USA Network, Bravo and the Spanish-language Telemundo channel. Originally General Electric, along with two sister companies, owned NBC. Then GE and one other withdrew to avoid trouble by the U.S. Justice Department because of antitrust concerns. This was in the early '30s ... just as the Rockafellers were just getting started.

About 50 years later GE bought RCA (Radio Corporation of America) as well as NBC ... GE also owns MTV for you music lovers.

General Electric, for those that don't know, is the major military supplier to the United States. Along with General Motors, they comprise a more than noticible percentage in the American Economy. So I'm sure you can picture they have ties pretty high up ...

(General Electric, correct me if I'm wrong, also owns FOX ... I believe you non-Americans like to signal that one out for it's extreme bias.)

I'm sure you already notice the similarities between much of what is posted and discussed here and elsewhere compared to many famous conspiracy shows (as well as news broadcasts) and movies.

So what's to make you think that there isn't a more sinister plot going on here? Who's to say that perhaps, in the very act of thinking your government is doing one thing, you haven't played into their hands all along, and already blinded yourself from the truth. Something, perhaps, a lot closer to home ... and as you guys prepare for that coming NWO invasion where they round you up and stick you in concentration camps ... or perhaps, the coming of aliens to set us free in 2012, they keep you in a prison of so called 'freedom'. The worst kind ... because you think you're free, when infact that freedom in thinking you're free, is your true prison. Something reminiscent of 'Room 101' in 1984.

The people that control our lives and destinies as well as the fate of our nations and others, are incredably smart people. They haven't been doing what they've been doing for centuries by being stupid and slipping ... so think for yourself.

But as stated ... 'twas just a thought.

But as you people so love to say, Deny Ignorance.




posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:57 PM
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Grey, that was just a thought? You have longer thoughts than I do.

I was wondering if you can tell me how old the site is? I am new and I haven't seen it's age anywhere.
I don't watch a single channel that you posted there. Although I have seen most of the shows you are talking about, I never liked any of them.
I take it you are saying we are tricked by the government to believe in the things we talk about? I don't know much about the NWO but that sounds like it fits just fine with that.
But then at the end of your post you act like NWO is something we are made to believe as well?
Correct me if I'm wrong but we are the people that standing up to oppressors. They are not smarter than everyone. They make mistakes and reveal them selves. Every story on here may not be full truth and may be half speculation. That maybe true but they are not completely fabricated.
The 1947 crash in New Mexico was meant for us to believe in aliens? Don't see how that would benefit the 'higher powers'
Being controlled to believe in the NWO..how does that empower anyone?

Welcome to ATS you will fit right in.
(Tip: try not to say Deny Ignorance in a post. People will twist it around against you)



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 08:55 PM
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I guess no one wants to acknowledge the fact that private corperations connected to the government own most if not all entertainment and news stations which incited many conspiracy theories in the first place.

Well, god gave us opinion and I guess we use it.

And, Umbrax ... please, don't put words in my mouth. I never said that 'they' were 'smarter than everyone'. I said they were incredably smart. And I never said ANYTHING about the 1947 crash ... I don't know where you got that from.

To answer your question of believing in the NWO, and how does that empower anyone -- well look at the person who first coined the phrase, 'New World Order'. Granted many interpretations were said and tried over millenia, but this was what originally started the whole title of NWO. It was George Bush sr., at the pre-dawning of the Gulf War. He said it numerous times ... now tell me, if this was an all secret thing, then why would a person that came from the seat of the CIA, as well as whom sits on the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR ... but that's a whole 'nother story), blow his cover for his masters' plan for world domination in a mere media interview? You tell me.

And as I've stated in other threads ... they already control individuals as well as nations in many means. Through the power of the bankers, debt, and interest, as well as other things.



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 09:02 PM
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I hope, also, you haven't forgot about the infamous quote Ronald Reagan gave during his presidency ...

"...wouldn't it be great, if an outside, extraterrestrial force, threatened this planet and it's people? I trully believe if such a force happened, it would bind humanity in ways never known before."

I doubt that's the exact quote, word for word, given, as it's directly from memory, but the content is precisely the same. Also remember that most of our dear American presidents were and are affiliated with the infamous Skull and Bones, as well as Free Masonry.



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by Grey
well look at the person who first coined the phrase, 'New World Order'. Granted many interpretations were said and tried over millenia, but this was what originally started the whole title of NWO. It was George Bush sr., at the pre-dawning of the Gulf War. He said it numerous times ...


Might wanna look back a bit further than that.



While a similar phrase (Novus Ordo Seclorum, in fact a quotation from Vergil) appears in Latin on the back of the U.S. one dollar bill, the phrase "New World Order" was first widely used by Woodrow Wilson in the period just after World War I, during the formation of the League of Nations.

en.wikipedia.org...(political)



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 09:26 PM
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Norvus Ordo Seclorum does not mean "New World Order", that is an extremely common misconception. It means "New Order of the Ages", the difference is subtle yet important. The meanings are different. Even the site that you give states that.

en.wikipedia.org...

But I see what you're getting at. Wilson did use the phrase but it was in a different pretext ... though, if I'm not mistaken, Wilson was controlled by the same people who control Bush sr and others.



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by Umbrax
Being controlled to believe in the NWO..how does that empower anyone?


Since this thread is about tossing thoughts out..........

Being controlled to believe in the NWO............First of all, the concept of an NWO is meant to be an intimidating one even if the source of intimidation is "change". The looming aura of change is a source of anxiety and change on a global scale that would incorporate relgion/politics as well as have implications(potentially) towards day to day life is a bit more than fidgety subject matter.

The compare and contrast method of problem solving will lead to a scrutiny(however thorough) of the current political state, and when resolved, will most likely cause a relief/at least it's not so bad attitude. Not to mention, of course, the various medias set-up will do their job and distract you with various ideas and eventually garner your support and involvement.........or lack thereof and a sated curiosity.

Also, conspiracy sites such as this are usually attended to by hardcore conspiracy theorists. The very act of discussion in itself is a form of venting.......the "quest" for answers will serve to assuage doubt/awe/fill in the blank response.

All of this works to keep you preoccupied so that you continue to ascribe to the "normalcies" of daily life. School, work, etc. is dutifully accomplished so that further investigation/discussion can occur, whilst all that time, those in power continue to have it.

Keep in mind alot of this is based in sociology.........because of the large population and subsequent diversity of thought..........having a social outlet available for every possible interest is pretty much the name of the game. Nothing distracts a person more than the opposite sex and social games. Nothing disrupts a system more than someone who can't resolve his/her biological inclinations.

[edit on 24-2-2005 by MemoryShock]

[edit on 24-2-2005 by MemoryShock]



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by Grey
Norvus Ordo Seclorum does not mean "New World Order", that is an extremely common misconception. It means "New Order of the Ages", the difference is subtle yet important. The meanings are different. Even the site that you give states that.


I never said anything about Novus Ordo Seclorum.
Woody used "New World Order," which is the only thing I was pointing out.
If it was coined by anyone in particular, he should be considered before Bush Sr, chronologically speaking.




posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 09:56 PM
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MemoryShock, excelent post.

And Banshee, you're entirely correct, I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. It does include Norvus Ordo Seclorum in the definition of New World order in that link you posted so I just thought I'd point that out. My fault, though.



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 10:36 PM
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First, thank you. Now.......continuing the ebb of flow..........


Originally posted by Grey
But take a look at this. The Sci-Fi channel, which has shown many classic science fiction t.v. shows such as 'Sliders', the 'X-Files', 'Stargate', 'Stargate Atlantis', 'Outer Limits', and many other shows that I'm sure are really well known amongst the conspiracy theorists, popped up at around the time many of these so called conspiracy theories arose. Well always take look at the paper trail.


I wouldn't say that these shows coincided with the origin of conspiracy theories, even of related nature. I think it may be more accurate to state that they coincide with the popularity of conspiracy theories. For an obvious example, the 1947 crash occurred well before the mainstreaming of T.V. in general(no pun intended
) and probably worked to supplement those who remembered Orson Welles(but even a statement such as that assumes a more universal application/digestion of the propoganda). At any rate, people have long been paranoid/distrusting about one thing or another. Revolutions, spawned by secret societies or not, are evidence of that. And before it's stated that dissatisfaction in the extreme causes revolution, the initial gathering of opinion and thusly support inlarge enough quantity is accomplished through conspiracy......to conspire.

I do agree that T.V. does propogate, however, it does a lot more than encourage an intellectual train of thought(regardless of the irrationality). Much money, time, and effort went into studying and developing ways to appeal to the base emotions of the human organism.........but that would be another conspiracy, now wouldn't it
.



[edit on 24-2-2005 by MemoryShock]

[edit on 24-2-2005 by MemoryShock]



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by Grey
Norvus Ordo Seclorum does not mean "New World Order", that is an extremely common misconception. It means "New Order of the Ages", the difference is subtle yet important. The meanings are different. Even the site that you give states that.

en.wikipedia.org...

But I see what you're getting at. Wilson did use the phrase but it was in a different pretext ... though, if I'm not mistaken, Wilson was controlled by the same people who control Bush sr and others.


I thought the Norvus Ordo Seclorum = New Secular Order!

This article talk about the alternate meanings:
New Secular Order
New World Order
New Order of the Ages
theinsider.org...

PS. Ultimately, they all mean the same thing...

[edit on 24-2-2005 by mwen]



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 10:59 PM
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You're welcome.

Now, MemoryShock, you're right in the fact that mainstream media didn't really coincide with all theories ... but it has coincided with most. Yes, the 1947 crash was deeply controversial. It spawned most of the mainstream UFO craze in the first place. But as said before, I've visited this site many times in the past years ... but only have I recently noticed that a lot of questions asked by members, more so than that of the information given out in the main scheme of the site, has a lot, indirectly, to do with what is on T.V or reported in the media.

After Roswell, tons upon tons of UFO cases came to surface, thousand-fold before pre-Roswell. And like I said, a little over a decade and a half ago, these government conspiracies and others arose with the rise of widespread television and movie shows about the subject(s). Granted, a lot of information has been released to the public as well as wide spread knowledge of government corruption in the first place, but it just lead me to thinking. Why wouldn't the government use these T.V. shows and movies as a way to divert public interest? After all, why would G.E., a basic pawn of the military, which owns NBC, which owns Sci-Fi, allow shows about Government conspiracies to air if that's precisely what they were doing?

I'm in no way shape or form saying a lot of the conspiracies are false ... infact, as I said before, I believe, or know, most of them to be true. But the people that run our lives are smart ... I'm sure they're doing something that is not in the direct view of the public eye, by concealing their intentions with the very theory of decadence and corruption (that very well exists). Whether the theories be conspiring with aliens or the like, it does serve as ample entertainment to divert attention to what they're really doing, which, I said before, is probably much closer to home ...

You got to think of it, if they really were conspiring with extraterrestrials, and really wanted the public off their backs, they would act like they were, at least, trying to find out about their existance; for example, Russia, or Britain, or Germany, etc. etc. No one accuses Russia of flying extraterrestrial craft to Mars in the '70s ... they have the image of knowing nothing about E.T., even though they very might well.

But America ... America is confounded with conspiracy theories. Because America refuses, publically, to research about the very possibility of extraterrestrial life, leads the public to think that they're hiding something. And perhaps, that's exactly what they want, whether or not they, in fact, are.

I believe the best way to describe this in a few simple words would be, 'Hiding in the Light'.



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 11:12 PM
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GE does not own Fox. News Corp (headed by Rupert Murdoch) owns Fox.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by Grey
Now, MemoryShock, you're right in the fact that mainstream media didn't really coincide with all theories ... but it has coincided with most.



Originally posted by MemoryShockI think it may be more accurate to state that they coincide with the popularity of conspiracy theories.


I see now that we are indeed on the same page. This would indoubtedly support the "Hiding in the Light," theory/fact. The advent of "real time" multi-medias has completely wreaked havoc on people's sense of reality......arguements that can otherwise be discarded are getting more play because of the over attention payed to disconnected possibilities. Don't have any examples, but I've seen enough Unsolved Mystery types to know that anyone who understands what a logical fallacy is can't attribute truth to half (probably more than) of it. And I've seen some seemingly "honest" people.

The emphasis on all of this would(is) an adequate distraction........because it provides an association with an authority by which more answers can be gleaned(T.V.), and, by the very nature of it, allows for almost prepetual consideration which means definitive answers are rare.


Originally posted by GreyWhy wouldn't the government use these T.V. shows and movies as a way to divert public interest?


They would, without a doubt. But I believe the diversion is from something a bit more obvious. Politics and the ongoing relations across the pond are the first thing to pop to mind. The reason that the government(I include pretty much all incarnations of it; Bush isn't worthy of all the blame) can get away with what it has is the seeds of doubt that it plants all over the place, through T.V., it's own political dogma(Republican vs. Democrat; liberal vs. conservative) religion, and various other, less popular social outlets. The public rarely agrees on anything and that is not condusive to government scrutiny of any kind. The attention given some conspiracies, namely UFO's, is at least a bit kind in that it instills awe, rather than a letdown from not being included.........


Originally posted by GreyBecause America refuses, publically, to research about the very possibility of extraterrestrial life, leads the public to think that they're hiding something. And perhaps, that's exactly what they want, whether or not they, in fact, are.


If it sounds like I'm trying to argue, I will state that I'm not, as I fully agree with this statement, and thusly the driving point of this thread. I'm merely poking at the fine print, so to speak.



Originally posted by GreyI believe the best way to describe this in a few simple words would be, 'Hiding in the Light'.


Sounds like a slogan.........



posted on Feb, 26 2005 @ 11:46 PM
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First off, sorry for the delay in response ... I've been busy the past couple days. But no, without a doubt, I agree in your previous post.

It is good to look at things from all directions ... hense my screen name. Nothing is black in white, just multiple shades of grey.

All I can reply with is, I concur. I don't really have anything else to say, as we basically agree. And it seems, neither does anyone else, so this discussion seems to be at a close. But as you say, we are basically on the same page, and I'm happy to see that someone else accepts the fact that the most public, most 'free' form of giving information to the public is corrupted like the very government(s) that 'house' it.

Most people only look directly ahead of themselves, never examining their milieu.



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by Grey

It is good to look at things from all directions ...



I agree......thanks for the interesting thoughts.........saw your thoughts on early america and couldn't respond without further research which I'm afraid I have no time at the moment to conduct, but I am also going to look for corrolations with a burdgeoning society and the Industrial revolution that reshaped the world. I think there might be some telling points documented somewhere, even if the only reason were to be that excitement over something of that magnitude would allow for some arrogance to shine through. Of course, I refer to the secret societies, they're human and prone to human reactions........as omniscient as they want everyone to believe, they're weakness lies in an understanding of sociology and psychology.........imo.

Post got longer than I intended.



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 06:28 PM
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First of all, your theory is contradicting because it is a conspiracy theory which is what you are saying is a conspiracy.
Secondly, these "controllers of societies/world/etc" are probably so smart that you'd never be allowed to think there were "controllers".



posted on Mar, 3 2005 @ 06:40 PM
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The public controllers are 33rd degree mason (Tony Blair, George W Bush, etc.), and the absolute rulers of earth are a triumvirate with ruling lineage dating back to ancient egypt, sumeria, and more recently from the Roman empire. They lay-low and it is respectively kept in the family. In this triumvirate there is no ability to fight for full control because each ruler has a speciality which the others cannot rule without and their specialty cannot be taught.



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by National Security Agency
Secondly, these "controllers of societies/world/etc" are probably so smart that you'd never be allowed to think there were "controllers".


Never be allowed, huh?

First of all, they are human and subject to all the wonderful faults inherent in the human species....albeit, to a far lesser extent, since their minions minion take care of physical manifestations of their activity........the intelligence level they possess does not preclude my intelligence. To say that reverse engineering sociology and mind control tactics is very possible(I'm not even close to being done) and only really requires a good understanding of the word "perspective" to begin wading through the what and hows. I say this not to display my rampant arrogance, I am not that foolhardy. Rather, I want to dispell this seeming "aura" around the powers that be.........process of elimination if one had a paper trail and social proximity could get an extra-polating mind close........but I'm more interested in the what's and how's because I want to at least recognize when I'm being conned..........


Originally posted by National Security Agency The public controllers are 33rd degree mason (Tony Blair, George W Bush, etc.), and the absolute rulers of earth are a triumvirate with ruling lineage dating back......


Obviously, national leaders have a part....one I would say is partly figurehead......maybe it was their turn to be in the spotlight? As for the ruling lineage........my guess is that yeah it dates back, yeah it's difficult to prove, yeah ancient civilizations may have been a part of the process.........but that is neither here nor there and says nothing, really.

And you are possessive of this knowledge because.......


P.S. Thanks for taking interest in this topic.......I see you are recently registered........just wish you would have picked at a few specifics instead of offering a generality that really doesn't add to the "conversation."



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by MemoryShock
P.S. Thanks for taking interest in this topic.......I see you are recently registered........just wish you would have picked at a few specifics instead of offering a generality that really doesn't add to the "conversation."


Tsk, tsk, if I had more than mere generalities than we wouldn't be having this conversation. If anywhere near the proof of my generalities I'd disappear from existence in society. And I'd love to answer the question you ended with a...
but I just can't do that because it would lead to a surmise of...well you said no generalities so I won't elaborate on that thought.



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