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Democrats win! Precedent set to unleash decades old allegations with no proof

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posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:03 PM
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All the data concerning Ford that has been scrubbed from the internet can surely be gathered by the fbi.




posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Ok so if democrats call to strecth this out will you be against this?



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:12 PM
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This is a really scary thread. If the line can't be very clearly drawn somewhere- a line establishing the difference between unsubstantiated allegations from unreliable or even anonymous sources, and actual evidence of unacceptable and/or criminal behavior, with witnesses- this could truly be the beginning of the end for America as we know it... Especially if both sides stoop to using the same tactics.

If anything can be delayed for investigations, then re-delayed and re-re-delayed, There's no limit to what aspects of our governmental/legal/electoral and other systems could potentially be broken by this.

Scary.

-M4nWithNoN4me



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:17 PM
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originally posted by: M4nWithNoN4me
This is a really scary thread. If the line can't be very clearly drawn somewhere- a line establishing the difference between unsubstantiated allegations from unreliable or even anonymous sources, and actual evidence of unacceptable and/or criminal behavior, with witnesses- this could truly be the beginning of the end for America as we know it... Especially if both sides stoop to using the same tactics.

If anything can be delayed for investigations, then re-delayed and re-re-delayed, There's no limit to what aspects of our governmental/legal/electoral and other systems could potentially be broken by this.

Scary.

-M4nWithNoN4me




ALERT !

You Have Been Tagged . The Thought Crime Task Force will be Knocking at your Door in 5 Minutes . Time to Bug Out !



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: Grambler




Ok so if democrats call to strecth this out will you be against this?


No - I won't. Why should I be?

This is no small thing

This is a man that's been nominated for a lifetime position on our supreme court. He wants to be a Justice? Then let him support due process. If he wants to make laws that afect all of us, then let him show he's willing to live by the system he claims he wants to uphold

What is the rush? Afraid they won't beat the midterms? Too damn bad

McConnell made sure that position would not be filled for a good long time until he could get someone in he approves of. This is on him - his timeline is arbitrary

Our country is coming apart at the seams. This is something that literally benefits everybody in this country. A fair examination of the facts, even if there is no final determination of guilt or innocence. We have to be able to know that we can trust each other to do the right thing - then we can move on from there


edit on 9/28/2018 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:25 PM
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I just got in from work to find the COWARDS Flake, Murkowsky, and Collins are on board for delaying the vote.....which is all the Democrats wanted. Shameful. While I hold these cowards in contempt, my real ire lays at the feet of the Democrats.

I will never vote for another one in my lifetime after witnessing this shameful display. Where are the good Democrats? Are you ok with DESTROYING a man on almost 40 year old charges WITHOUT A SINGLE WITNESS??? With the witnesses named by the accuser ALL DENYING THE EVENT UNDER PENALTY OF FELONY?? At what point do we say enough?? Honestly people, ask yourselves, what in the hell is the FBI even going to investigate?? A calendar, a yearbook??? my God how far we have fallen....

Flake, you are a COWARD
Murkowsky, you are a COWARD
Collins, you are a COWARD

you have rewarded this tactic with success that it never should have had......now we will only get more. and way down we go, go, go, go........
edit on pm99201818America/Chicago28p06pm by annoyedpharmacist because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:32 PM
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a reply to: Grambler


But no where even remotely near what we see here.

At least there were pictures of franken. At least we know he was in the area of the people he was accused of.

At least the democrats got to replace franken and there was a political benefit to the republicans.

At least franken alleged victim wasnt outed against her will. At least he wasnt implied to be a gang rapists with no evidence whatseoever.


Are you arguing that as a matter of geography, there's some question of whether Kavanaugh could have done what she alleges? We know they socialized. Is it a statement about his calendar? AFAIK, her name doesn't appear anywhere in the calendar. He admitted that he knew her and said he couldn't rule out being at a party with her. They didn't go to school together so he had to know her from *somewhere*. So why isn't she in the calendar that details every single event and interaction of that time — because clearly it does not actually detail every single event and interaction.

There *was* a political benefit to the Republicans. How wasn't there? The Democrats lost a vocal critic of Trump and a strong advocate for the Democrat's policy agenda who was popular and likely to continue winning re-election.

Trump can simply nominate somebody else. Kavanaugh isn't being "replaced" from anything, he's hasn't gotten the job.


Franken admitted being guilty of inapproriate behavior. I thought that was not enough to get him dismissed.


Actually, he never did admit to what was alleged. He said he didn't recall the events as she described them but apologized for anyway in which he might have made her feel. He did specifically apologize for posing for the picture — which was no more or less inappropriate I might add, than the video of her on stage grabbing a dude's ass.

He did immediately call for a HEC investigation into himself. And he resigned because it was a #storm and there were Democrats calling for him to step down (starting with Gilibrand).


But at least there was proof and an admission of his misdeeds


That's not accurate.


For god sakes the media is now in the business of promoting totally anonymous letters as legitmate accusers; all for political reasons.


Could you give me a source for that? I think you're referring to the letter sent to (Republican) Sen. Gardner? I don't think that should have been published either but I'm sure somebody will argue that it was in the committee transcript and therefore there was a public interest argument to be made.


You know this has never been a circus like this. You know there is no evdience against kavanaugh at all.


I can't help but think about how when I have argued that the Russian interference in the 2016 election was unprecedented, I've been told repeatedly that it's no big deal, nothing new, happens all the time, everyone does it, etc. In my opinion, things have been deep into circus territory for years and I'm not just talking since the election.

This is just the latest circus.

As for evidence against Kavanaugh — I've seen no evidence in support of the allegation against Kavanaugh. If this was a criminal case and I was a juror, I would not be able to vote to convict Kavanaugh. There's just not enough there to decide either way and in a court of law, it's innocent until proven guilty.

Nor would I say that Kavanaugh is guilty of having done what was alleged. I have no idea. Her story had weaknesses but she seemed sincere. He was compelling in his denial but then I felt like he was bull#ting and trying way too hard to downplay his partying in high school/college.

What I find interesting here is how this is all being framed. We're now at a point where it feels like right-wingers are basically saying that not confirming Kavanaugh would be tantamount to convicting him.

I don't see it that way. I think that's a product of how this has all been ratcheted up by both sides. I see a confirmation as being more like the opposite of a criminal case. In a criminal case, you must be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt because being convicted can cause you to lose among other things, your freedom. This is more like a job interview where the Senate should be convinced of credibility, integrity, etc beyond a reasonable doubt before rewarding the nominee with a lifelong appointment to one of the most powerful jobs in the world.


You know that an alleged victim was used and not caredc for at all by the dems.


I don't know that at all. It's being said ad nauseam though so it must be true.


At least I called out when franken was railroaded.

You dont even have the integrity to speak up about this farce.


You assert as a matter of fact that Ford "was used and not cared for at all by the Dems" but if her allegation is false — she wasn't used by *anyone*, she's a liar who bore false witness against Kavanaugh, damaging his good name for some indefensible purpose.

I don't know if this is a "farce" either. Is it a farce if her allegation is true? Is it always a farce if an allegation is made strictly on the strength of the alleged victim's story? Is it a farce because you believe that Feinstein should have violated the woman's confidence? Or is it a farce because you, without evidence, believe that Feinstein leaked to force this woman to go on the record?

I've seen that allegation made a number of times, including by you, but you have no evidence that she did. Is there anyone who witnessed this? Is anyone with any knowledge whatsoever saying she did? She said she didn't do it. Did Ryan Grim say she did? No, Ryan Grim said she did not. What about Feinstein's good name? You're saying she's a liar who used this poor woman for her own political ends based on...?

What happened to the standard of innocent until proven guilty in that case?

Now you're saying I'm lacking the integrity to go out on this limb with you. I'll tell you this, if it can be proven that Feinstein or her staff leaked that letter to compel Ford to go on the record, then I'll agree that the Democrats used and abused Ford and Feinstein should resign immediately.

If it comes out that Ford was a participant in some sort of Democratic conspiracy to smear Kavanaugh with a false accusation, then she should face both criminal and civil consequences (lying to the Senate under oath and defamation).

As for the Kavanaugh confirmation, I'm more or less ambivalent. If he's confirmed, I'm not going to lose my # about it. If he doesn't get confirmed, I'm not going to get all up in arms either.
edit on 2018-9-28 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:34 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Grambler




Ok so if democrats call to strecth this out will you be against this?


No - I won't. Why should I be?

This is no small thing

This is a man that's been nominated for a lifetime position on our supreme court. He wants to be a Justice? Then let him support due process. If he wants to make laws that afect all of us, then let him show he's willing to live by the system he claims he wants to uphold

What is the rush? Afraid they won't beat the midterms? Too damn bad

McConnell made sure that position would not be filled for a good long time until he could get someone in he approves of. This is on him - his timeline is arbitrary

Our country is coming apart at the seams. This is something that literally benefits everybody in this country. A fair examination of the facts, even if there is no final determination of guilt or innocence. We have to be able to know that we can trust each other to do the right thing - then we can move on from there



let me ask you this. the man had 6 background investigations.....6. Do you not think they looked back at his high school days?? just like with security clearances, I am sure they are quite thorough.

also, i am curious on what you think they even have to investigate. they dont have an exact time and location. do we investigate yearbooks?? how about calendars??? it is a joke and I think you know it.....

last point. since this is all about the truth. would you be ok with the FBI looking at Ford, looking at her contacts in the Democratic party, and the possibility of her getting paid for this?? i mean, I am not saying it is true, but hey, we need to find the truth, right?
edit on pm99201818America/Chicago28p06pm by annoyedpharmacist because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:37 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
I am ashamed to live in this country. I really am.

Not because of the result of this, but because of the circus that led up to it.

SPIT



Let me join you in that spit,,,,,phew



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:38 PM
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Every Supreme court nomination is a circus. It's always been that way since when I first started paying attention to this stuff in the 80s and up.

It really doesn't matter whether it's a democrat or a republican nomination. Look at that guy Obama nominated, they shelved that one for a full year.

I don't understand how you don't realize that some years your going to get a conservative justice and sometimes your going to get a liberal justice and that's what makes the supreme court great when you have all of these different views. You don't want all conservative or all liberal. Just like you don't want all conservitive or all liberal congress.

Having said that, I think this is the right thing to do, too many allegations let's get an investigation some testimony and see what's really going on. I don't see the problem with that.

This was handled terribly though, a lot of this should have been handled confidentially. and not like a circus.



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:39 PM
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a reply to: annoyedpharmacist




it is a joke and I think you know it.....


This I see as a weakness in so many. You assume you know what's happening with people when you can't actually know

I think - and I have said - that there needs to be an investigation into these allegations - specifically

The FBI isn't infallible. How do you look for something that hasn't been suggested? Where would you even start?

Now he's been accused of a crime. Why are you against a follow up?

ETA:


last point. since this is all about the truth. would you be ok with the FBI looking at Ford, looking at her contacts in the Democratic party, and the possibility of her getting paid for this?? i mean, I am not saying it is true, but hey, we need to find the truth, right?


Of course. Don't make so many assumptions about people when you actually don't know anything

edit on 9/28/2018 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:41 PM
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originally posted by: annoyedpharmacist
I just got in from work to find the COWARDS Flake, Murkowsky, and Collins are on board for delaying the vote.....which is all the Democrats wanted. Shameful. While I hold these cowards in contempt, my real ire lays at the feet of the Democrats.

I will never vote for another one in my lifetime after witnessing this shameful display. Where are the good Democrats? Are you ok with DESTROYING a man on almost 40 year old charges WITHOUT A SINGLE WITNESS??? With the witnesses named by the accuser ALL DENYING THE EVENT UNDER PENALTY OF FELONY?? At what point do we say enough?? Honestly people, ask yourselves, what in the hell is the FBI even going to investigate?? A calendar, a yearbook??? my God how far we have fallen....

Flake, you are a COWARD
Murkowsky, you are a COWARD
Collins, you are a COWARD

you have rewarded this tactic with success that it never should have had......now we will only get more. and way down we go, go, go, go........





If those Three were on my Fantasy Football Team , I Would Trade them to the Democrats for Senator Joseph Manchin III and Change ....



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:41 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: annoyedpharmacist




it is a joke and I think you know it.....


This I see as a weakness in so many. You assume you know what's happening with people when you can't actually know that

I think - and I have said - that there needs to be an investigation into these allegations - specifically

The FBI isn't infallible. How do you look for something that hasn't been suggested? Where would you even start?

Now he's been accused of a crime. Why are you against a follow up?


The dumbest thing I saw during the hearings where people asking Kavanaugh to ask for an investigation himself. I thought was the dumbest thing ever. If you want an investigation just call for one. Easy peasey. Are these democratic senators to afraid to ask for an investigation? I don't get it?



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:42 PM
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originally posted by: darepairman

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
I am ashamed to live in this country. I really am.

Not because of the result of this, but because of the circus that led up to it.

SPIT



Let me join you in that spit,,,,,phew


I am disgusted at the circus and the result if I am to be honest here. so I will join you both in that spit. it isnt that I even like Kavanaugh that much as a jurist....I would have preferred Barrett. that said, I can not stand having a man destroyed like this over, let's be honest here, an accusation WITH ZERO corroboration.



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:43 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Lets be honest: he had a decent chance of not making confirmation just based on the facts of his past rulings, actions, and comments.

Im not at all disappointed that he isn't a SCOTUS justice. I am disgusted by the way this circus played out. At this point I don't even think I can honestly blame Ford...im too busy blaming Feinstein for concocting this malodorous stench after sitting on the story for 2 months.



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:44 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: annoyedpharmacist




it is a joke and I think you know it.....


This I see as a weakness in so many. You assume you know what's happening with people when you can't actually know

I think - and I have said - that there needs to be an investigation into these allegations - specifically

The FBI isn't infallible. How do you look for something that hasn't been suggested? Where would you even start?

Now he's been accused of a crime. Why are you against a follow up?

ETA:


last point. since this is all about the truth. would you be ok with the FBI looking at Ford, looking at her contacts in the Democratic party, and the possibility of her getting paid for this?? i mean, I am not saying it is true, but hey, we need to find the truth, right?


Of course. Don't make so many assumptions about people when you actually don't know anything


a follow up on what??? they gave statements under oath that this event didnt happen.

the FBI isnt infallible, yet we MUST have a investigation that doesnt even reach conclusions....so just more feet dragging here. I would have more respect if the went down to the Montgomery Co police station and file charges......I would have respect if they did that. any guesses as to why they wont?? any??
edit on pm99201818America/Chicago28p06pm by annoyedpharmacist because: (no reason given)

edit on pm99201818America/Chicago28p06pm by annoyedpharmacist because: edited out inflammatory line. apologies




posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
If he wants to make laws that afect all of us, then let him show he's willing to live by the system he claims he wants to uphold


You played a hand here which you likely would prefer to have not played. The SCOTUS, despite the belief of many liberals, doesn't make any laws. That's called legislation from the bench and it represents EXACTLY why these justice and federal judge positions are not only vital, but why most liberal appointees to them should never see their nominations confirmed. You're suggesting members of the SCOTUS should be in a position to violate the Constitution rather than interpret and follow it, welcome to school let's fill your head with some reality and replace whatever pablum it's presently filled with that makes you believe a judge should be making laws.



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: amazing

From 10 days ago:

Democrats Want FBI To Investigate Kavanaugh Allegations. It Likely Won't


edit on 9/28/2018 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:47 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
[/url]a reply to: amazing

From 10 days ago:

[url=https://www.npr.org/2018/09/18/649085712/democrats-want-fbi-to-investigate-kavanaugh-allegations-it-likely-wont]Democrats Want FBI To Investigate Kavanaugh Allegations. It Likely Won't



But why didn't hey ask for it? Why during the hearing do they keep asking him to ask for it? Seems dumb. And I'm not a republican or a Dem hater.



posted on Sep, 28 2018 @ 06:51 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

I'm not playing a hand - this isn't a game

Should I have said: If he wants to uphold the system that affect all of us, then let him show he's willing to live by the system he claims he wants to uphold ?

OK - there you go

If you can't comprehend what I'm trying to say - and you're only set on winning - you pretty much prove why we are where we are
edit on 9/28/2018 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)




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