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Rendlesham Forest 1980 Pt II - Will There Be An Answer?

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posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 03:10 AM
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a reply to: AdamE

Given the findings of Persinger and others, some people are more, or less, sensitive to certain externally applied EM stimulus, we can agree on that and have the evidence to support it. However, dogs perceive very differently to us, they "see" things that we don't and particularly smells. So, the biosensory abilities of the security guards may not be to EMFs but possibly olfactory, which could perhaps have some relationship to what they are discussing at the end about disturbing the soil increasing activity and would explain the need for a piss test (sulfide or hydrogen sulphide??).




posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 03:33 AM
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a reply to: IsaacKoi

I had to abandon downloading a couple of the documents in your list because my pc/wifi was putting up way too much resistance...the problem is entirely my end and I haven't given up, just slowed my progress...given the prospect of maps and aerial photos I am wondering if my machine is up to the task at all...I should get on with trying to prepare it for the challenge, a little maintenance is clearly in order.

Thanks again



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 09:55 AM
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originally posted by: KilgoreTrout

originally posted by: AdamE
Look at that. Visually, very apt, indeed.


Isn't it though? I could watch it all day, just gorgeous...and beyond the immediate visual, which of course being speeded up to meet our perception of time looks very similar to lightning but if we slowed down lightning to the speed of slime mold would we see the same pulsation of micro expansions and contractions? Of the lightning feeling out pathways and appearing to choose it's routes based on that "feeling" intelligence?


originally posted by: AdamE

Just a quick thought too.

This Leaky Coaxial idea that I have spoken about, would be something that would be in place and be covertly tested at any time.

This setup may have unintentionally played a part in the RFI events.

If the ELF were generating a phenomenon that is consistent with the reports we have heard from the Skinwalker Ranch, (BoL appearing from the ground, BoL lighting up the ranch, blue orbs of light that strike fear inside of individuals etc)
this would also tie the phenomenon to both potential propulsion source and/or potential BoL/Plasma type weapon.

One can understand the secrecy that this would involve considering those out there that wish to do us harm?

On thing to point out, George Knapp had no evidence of physical harm to humans during the study of the phenomenon, it seemed to know the difference between animal and human, (my interpretation: though the potential for harm may be there, if you screw with the phenomenon.)

Negative Mass is the term I believe?


I haven't looked at SWR beyond a cursory glance so on all points, I can't really say anything, however, it is my opinion that is those that want to keep the thing fluffed up and entertaining are doing the most harm at this point. I think that there is also a tendency to talk about a single phenomenon while the evidence points to multiple phenomenon, or at least multiple stages or forms of a phenomenal nature. In my opinion. I think the lumping in together is a consequence of an esoteric event becoming an exoteric one and those people who witnessed/or experienced such an event not being able to integrate the subjective elements into the consensus reality (that being the closest to objective that we can achieve).

Leaky co-axial? Not sure at this point on anything. I need to chew on Issac's list a bit more, it has raised a couple or several questions that I need to look into answering for myself before I think about anything else (Rendlesham-wise)...but I do still feel that where you have the potential for multiple EMF/ELF to drift into range of one another, you have the potential for "unintended consequences".



Very good Kilgore. Don't worry too much in regards to the Leaky feeder/coaxial. I am still researching and presenting some ideas based on what I am reading from the Nuclear Site safety aspects and your replies to such are very encouraging. . We can go down this line of discussion when you are ready.



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 10:02 AM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: mirageman

I'm pretty sure that there are many animal mutilation cases in the UK.. not just the one Pigsy shared. It's on my list of things to research. I must admit that some of the highest incidences of animal mutilations in the USA are in the neighborhood of past nuclear test sites, so it would not surprise me if our friends GE/BAE were involved with both 'radioloigcal/high energy testing AND 'mutilations').

On top of this, I'm poking around some sort of laser-powered lighter than air air frame concept that lands on tripods... it would almost be amusing if Marconi accidentally shot down one of their own animal mutilation air frames, and it briefly landed near RFI.

But that's just a long-shot at present.. I'm just starting this line of thought.. I just want to make sure that I'm looking at ALL possibilities, not just my favorite concepts. I wish that I didn't have favorite concepts, it makes it more difficult not to do confirmation bias.


This is something I posted via a podcast, but this is the youtube version. It leads from the discussion regards to what seems to be 'going down.'

This imo is where most of the answers lie when dealing with the things you mention and the history of how we got to where we are now.




posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: KilgoreTrout

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Look at the support Persinger got with the God Helmet, versus the actual amount of peer reviews and successful replications.Then look at the outright rejection of his telepathy experiments and the amount of peer reviewed papers on this.

You absolutely need to apply critical thinking here becuase there is huge gap between the reception to Persingers ideas one time and another.

More than that, it’s not wise to take either reception as proof or lack of proof that his theories were sound or not.

You know what has been replicated? A dummy god helmet that participants believed was the real thing. That means the placebo effect generated all those “paranormal” feelings..

Let’s assume it’s real.

- percentage of population are em sensitive
- histamine response to EM
- yet live ok with earths magnetic field (makes no sense but let’s suspensd disbelief)
- they can be trained or induced to develop their right occiptal lobe and dorsal stratum to recieve and share this data with the rest of the brain
- sometimes these people, with Native American or German heritage go out into the wildness and encounter a storm and get seriously effected (missing 411)

Let’s assume it’s not real.

- perceived psychic powers result of brain damage
- brain damage caused by a gamma ray weapon / terahertz device intentionally used against nato service people.



posted on Dec, 2 2018 @ 05:16 PM
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a reply to: AdamE

This is a very controversial viewpoint, but over the years evidence has emerged that the official interaction timeline for Bennewitz began months before we are told in books.

In fact Bennewitz started interested in cattle mutilations. He was brought to Gabe Valdez at a mutilation conference because Valdez found an altimeter and needed to see someone who understood it.

In fact, isn’t it possible Thunder Scientific could have manufactured such devices? Even if not he would have known what it was.

So, Bennewitz first initial evidence was earth bound equipment was found at the site of the mutilations! Yet everyone assumes he was targeted because of something at Kirkland.

That story has been very successfully implanted in the ufo community - but if it were true how do we explain the revised timeline with much earlier airforce contact and Bennewitz ignoring key physical evidence dropped in his lap?

My point, like the Persinger post is that commonly accepted understandings may or may not be correct.

Why



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 04:13 AM
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originally posted by: ctj83
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Look at the support Persinger got with the God Helmet, versus the actual amount of peer reviews and successful replications.Then look at the outright rejection of his telepathy experiments and the amount of peer reviewed papers on this.


I have never in this thread or the previous thread made any allusion to Persinger's god helmet or indeed to telepathy, the papers that I have previously referenced, where Persinger was lead author, related to the application of EMFs to subjects both with and without closed head injuries. Whilst those with closed head injuries exhibit a greater degree of sensitivity, those without, with direct application of the EMF to the temporal lobes, also exhibit a tendency of "sensing" a presence. In other studies those with damaged or greatly impaired temporal lobes do not. I do not believe that this is evidence of psychic, paranormal or spiritual phenomenon, I believe it is evidence that our perception of reality can be distorted due to environmental factors.




originally posted by: ctj83
You absolutely need to apply critical thinking here becuase there is huge gap between the reception to Persingers ideas one time and another.


Yes, I know and I apologise, I often forget that we are not simply in an on-going discussion and that it is important, periodically, the check perspectives, in that vein, pages, may be threads back, I was discussing the information presented by the IEEE as well as that other chap (whose name I can't remember) who was on the periphery of the Puharich-set, both of which confirm that environmental EMFs (generally man-made), depending upon intensity and proximity can have detrimental health effects including the neurological, possibly leading to distortions of perception.


originally posted by: ctj83
More than that, it’s not wise to take either reception as proof or lack of proof that his theories were sound or not.

You know what has been replicated? A dummy god helmet that participants believed was the real thing. That means the placebo effect generated all those “paranormal” feelings..


There will always be those willing to step up and join the freak show, and plenty of freak show purveyors ready to ride those coat-tails and elevate their own celebrity.




originally posted by: ctj83
Let’s assume it’s real.

- percentage of population are em sensitive
- histamine response to EM
- yet live ok with earths magnetic field (makes no sense but let’s suspensd disbelief)
- they can be trained or induced to develop their right occiptal lobe and dorsal stratum to recieve and share this data with the rest of the brain
- sometimes these people, with Native American or German heritage go out into the wildness and encounter a storm and get seriously effected (missing 411)

Let’s assume it’s not real.

- perceived psychic powers result of brain damage
- brain damage caused by a gamma ray weapon / terahertz device intentionally used against nato service people.



I'm sorry, I don't really understand how you have qualified or quantified those two positions, or for what purpose. Seems a little too black and white to be representative, I don't think that I have made any of those points or have any particular agreement to either option.



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 05:02 AM
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a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Apologies, KT, I should have explained better. Your comment on EM sensitivity caught my eye. Also, regarding Persinger, I feel like that the scientific community has not really fairly investigated his claims either way.

By the way, the last bitthey were my own musings at the end, they relate to my experiencer post I did back in June.

What I can tell you is this, there are those working on this phenomena that are either basing work on Persinger's theories or are taking them seriously. As I mentioned though, it's very hard to understand the true academic worth of his body of work simply because there isn't a clear or consistent treatment of his work.

By the way, with your comment on EM sensitives, you tied into some separate research I'd been doing, that suggests that a small percentage of the population is EM sensitive.

If that's true, and I'm wondering outloud, could these be the people who go missing, as in Missing411. There seems to be a pattern of them being of German ancestry, near a body of water or large amounts of granite. With bad weather coming in.

So my digression was basically just that what if EM sensitives can go into rural areas with high EM fluctuations and have some sort of incident due to high fields? Nothing paranormal, but perhaps a pattern?



posted on Dec, 3 2018 @ 06:00 AM
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a reply to: ctj83

Interesting reply! I have to dash now, I will have to get back to you but will be sure to ponder in the meantime.

All the best




posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 05:05 PM
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a reply to: ctj83



You absolutely need to apply critical thinking here...


It's always the problem. Sometimes people just assume things, or fabricate things to fit their agenda/beliefs and it eventually becomes gospel. Your point about Paul 'Ben O' Witz' being very relevant.

I keep reading that both Allied and Axis pilots sighted foo-fighters in WWII. I have never found an Axis account of sighting foo-fighters. All reports appear to have come from Allied flight crews over enemy territory.

I keep hearing stories of how the Skinwalker Ranch has been spooked for decades, centuries even of supernatural goings on. All I've ever found is a UFO sighting in the 1980s before the Shermans moved in. There is very little evidence of anything going on before that. All suggesting that perhaps it's not that special a place really. Especially as Sherman stayed on as ranch manager after he sold up to Bigelow. Surely he wanted to get out of the place?

I keep hearing of the history around Suffolk and balls of light and the odd geography etc. Sure there is a history of witchcraft and the development of some very secret projects in the area. But what do we actually have to prove it is any more 'weird' an area than anywhere else in the world? Do we have anything to back up the BoL sightings down the centuries?

I am always willing to be corrected on ALL of the above. Because for all I know I haven't searched deep enough and found the relevant information for myself. But I am suggesting that some things that are often taken as gospel should not be accepted as 'prima facie' until we have established the real truth.

In the case of Rendlesham we maybe need to question what have become ACCEPTED facts. For instance why do we believe THz radiation was involved in Burroughs heart injury? Because a little bird told us so?



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

A very good point, we may present facts that seem to backup whatever theory we have...but if one of those "facts" that we have accepted as truth, is in the end false..then the whole deck of cards comes tumbling down.

We need to investigate correctly the origins of some of the "accepted facts" and ascertain if they are of any real value or are indeed true.



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 07:50 PM
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Hi gang. How's Rendlesham these days?


I decided to spread my wings a little bit after feeling a bit RFI'd-out. It can get quite claustrophobic after a while! MM's been at it for YEARS now, so he has my utmost respect for sheer endurance.



originally posted by: mirageman

I keep hearing stories of how the Skinwalker Ranch has been spooked for decades, centuries even of supernatural goings on. All I've ever found is a UFO sighting in the 1980s before the Shermans moved in. There is very little evidence of anything going on before that. All suggesting that perhaps it's not that special a place really. Especially as Sherman stayed on as ranch manager after he sold up to Bigelow. Surely he wanted to get out of the place?


There are interesting conjectures that Utah itself is a haven for ancient, rather exotic terrestrial creatures that defy human interpretation and visualisation - elementals, if you will - unhappy about humans stomping over what they regard as their personal territory. HARD evidence, of course, is scant, perhaps because of their very nature if they do indeed exist. Skinwalker Ranch may fall into the same bracket.

Sherman, according to the 2005 book, seemed the most 'courageous' and adventurous of the family if his regular jaunts into the undergrowth to (apparently successfully) obtain photographic video evidence are to be believed, but again that notion of belief is scuppered by nobody ever mentioning such video evidence since - certainly not Knapp or Corbell. As you may already know, it's a flaw within the whole SWR saga that eternally bugs me.



In the case of Rendlesham we maybe need to question what have become ACCEPTED facts. For instance why do we believe THz radiation was involved in Burroughs heart injury? Because a little bird told us so?


As it is, one could argue that the only truly HARD FACT of the RFI is Halt's tape recording. What that fact actually entails is another matter altogether, but it is an exciting listen, and rather unique. Perhaps even very amusing if it all turns out to be misidentification after all... rather than Halt's "This is UNREAL!!!" exclamation at the climax.



edit on 4-12-2018 by ConfusedBrit because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 01:50 AM
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a reply to: mirageman


For instance why do we believe THz radiation was involved in Burroughs heart injury? Because a little bird told us so?


Do you mean Dr Kit Green MM.😁



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 02:03 AM
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Will there be an answer?
If you were there do you think there would be answers?
If you ever see a UFO you will know all you have is the experience and a lot of questions...

As for this incident which did happen, I’m looking forward to Capel Green it will be the closest all of us will come to experiencing what they did... Due for release soon in 2019



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 02:06 AM
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a reply to: 5StarOracle

Yes it should be interesting. I did note some of your comments some time ago re Col.Halt?



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 02:19 AM
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a reply to: Baablacksheep

Could very well be...

I’m sure it will be very interesting...The only thing better would be if we had the actual pictures and video that was taken on those nights...



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 04:12 AM
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originally posted by: ctj83
a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Apologies, KT, I should have explained better. Your comment on EM sensitivity caught my eye. Also, regarding Persinger, I feel like that the scientific community has not really fairly investigated his claims either way.

By the way, the last bitthey were my own musings at the end, they relate to my experiencer post I did back in June.

What I can tell you is this, there are those working on this phenomena that are either basing work on Persinger's theories or are taking them seriously. As I mentioned though, it's very hard to understand the true academic worth of his body of work simply because there isn't a clear or consistent treatment of his work.


I understand that his work has not garnered much interest and sufficient peer review, but having read a number of his and his associates papers, there is nothing in there that is outlandish or difficult to comprehend, however I do think that caution should be applied in generally applying his findings. His study sizes are very small, often just individual case studies compared to a small control group. The models that Persinger has developed to evaluate different ways of thinking and "being" do though seem to have been adopted by the wider scientific community, particularly those that relate to the study of "transliminal states" (that I referenced way back somewhere in the thread), but there doesn't seem to be as much visible pick up of his ideas relating to EMFs and the brain.


originally posted by: ctj83
By the way, with your comment on EM sensitives, you tied into some separate research I'd been doing, that suggests that a small percentage of the population is EM sensitive.

If that's true, and I'm wondering outloud, could these be the people who go missing, as in Missing411. There seems to be a pattern of them being of German ancestry, near a body of water or large amounts of granite. With bad weather coming in.


I don't have any difficulty with the idea of EM sensitivity and can see the potential for such from an evolutionary framework, it seems to me that such a quality would provide advantages in terms of survival. However, given that Persinger found that those with closed head injuries demonstrated such a sensitivity opens up a different possibility of adaptation rather that evolution, in that if sensitivity provides an advantage, would it be advantageous to the group to cause such injuries to acquire the desired ability?

I was looking at some illustrations that were made by the white folks that "discovered" Hawaii showing "human sacrifice". It was claimed that they would ritually club 100s of men on the head, and in that way kill them, but perhaps that wasn't the aim at all, perhaps they were trying to cause the type of injury that enabled you to predict seismic or vulcan activity. Either way, we cannot trust the views of those who went to "civilise" the Hawaiians, white Europeans at that time were incredible sensationalist, prejudiced and willing to fabricate evidence to justify their actions. As the thought has only just occurred to me (and I am being whimsical at best) I haven't looked into to what the indigenous people of the islands have to say about it.

I don't really hold too much store in ancestory in any of this, culture and ethnicity do play a part in how unusual and anomalous events are interpreted and our biological diversity could also be a factor in how we perceive, there may be some genetic inheritance to that, but I baulk at that meaning some ethnicities are more predisposed than others to certain events and experiences. Missing 411, I had to look it up. Granite and water, possibly. Human vulnerability and predation, more likely.


originally posted by: ctj83
So my digression was basically just that what if EM sensitives can go into rural areas with high EM fluctuations and have some sort of incident due to high fields? Nothing paranormal, but perhaps a pattern?


I think it is perhaps something that can be described with supranormal. There is a an entanglement, I think, and whether it is possible to disentangle without destroying any underlying pattern seems to me to be as much of a problem as anything else.




posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 04:52 AM
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originally posted by: mirageman
But I am suggesting that some things that are often taken as gospel should not be accepted as 'prima facie' until we have established the real truth.

In the case of Rendlesham we maybe need to question what have become ACCEPTED facts.


I'm game if you are


Except, with the caveat that I am a little spooked too, so I am going to have to set the scene a little. Having read through all the newspaper and journal stories (that I was able to download properly - Guardian and Oxford papers elude me still) about the assumed meteor that turned out to be a satellite launch re-entry, and then followed that through to the story of the RFI breaking in the FSR taking several diversions along the way to fill in gaps in my knowledge that that created. I then went and looked for Ian Ridpath's explanation which totally stumped me. So I started again. Still totally stumped.

Now I am assuming that what is available on his website is just a snippet of what else he has put out there, so I am expecting you all to point out to me my ignorance of the missing pieces BUT I have taken a rule to a map, and as far as I can see the Cosmos 749 would have passed pretty close to the twin bases if not overhead (it was only quick check) and yet Ridpath doesn't mention it. From my very cursory overview I can't find anyone involved mentioning it...and someone must do somewhere, right - If Ridpath's theory is to be taken even vaguely seriously. If what was reported by the Astronomical Association as a "bright object" that lasted a "few seconds" is the explanation for the RFI, then why does nobody at any time, Ridpath included, mention any observation of the object that was visible for "45 seconds" before breaking into pieces only hours before. He is claiming the same path, from what I can gather, the same visual range, for the object at 02:50, which was visible for only 3 to 4 seconds,that Cosmos 749 took. How could the second bright object have created such a fevered response while the much, much, much longer one did?

It doesn't make sense. Hence I'm spooked.

So someone must mention it, right?


edit on 5-12-2018 by KilgoreTrout because: that thatting



posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 05:29 AM
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a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Ian doesn't include the rocket booster burn up as a part of the RFI as such. More that it sparked UFO reports off on Christmas Night that might have filtered onto the base via radio broadcasts.

He mentions in the previous thread :




The Cosmos re-entry was at 21.07 on the evening of 1980 December 25, so it was not directly responsible for any of the Rendlesham Forest sightings. It did, though, spark off sightings over southern England that were reported on radio news that night. The security guards could well have heard these reports. So when the (natural) fireball appeared at 3am the following morning they were already primed... See my page about it here:
www.ianridpath.com...

The satellite re-entry would have been too high to show up on radar.


See : www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Dec, 5 2018 @ 05:34 AM
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a reply to: KilgoreTrout

My thought on 411 is this. German is one of the largest US ancestry groups. So that might explain the bias.

Then we have people with EM sensitivity which in certain geology can be overwhelmed, which leaves them disoriented and vulnerable to predators. George Knapp has been told by one of his Pentagon insiders that there is likely a link between SklnWalker and 411.

As for creating sensitives. It's a disturbing thought but one I don't feel we can dismiss - you make very good points.




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