It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Rendlesham Forest 1980 Pt II - Will There Be An Answer?

page: 41
39
<< 38  39  40    42  43  44 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 07:53 AM
link   
a reply to: Baablacksheep

I guess I should have been more clear about which boys I was referencing: I was referencing the TTSA boys in this case, not J & J or whomever else you thought I was referencing. Honestly, TTSA couldn't make money, if homing pigeons had 50 dollar bills taped to their foreheads and were instructed to go find them.




posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 07:56 AM
link   



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 08:07 AM
link   
a reply to: KilgoreTrout




Two clear factions there then, until at least the CIA got it's spy-planes and satellites,joining in those discussions, then there is the cross-over, and the CIA is less inclined to encourage people to be looking for strange craft in the skies but the lie is too big, too successful and no-one trusts them anyway.



Lockheed was using the U2 and the faster A12/SR71 to test camera equipment(for the later satellite applications), I think the earliest U2 program started about 1953. Theoretically they could have used film with those systems however traveling at high speeds there are limits imposed by the necessary exposure time(of film). They probably used some sort of charge coupled array device to actually capture image detail and then buffered that digitized data just long enough that they could make permanent film prints with a Digital to Analog process. Very secret in the 50's and 60's however artists like Salvadore Dali integrated some of this in their art works.

I think Dali's point was that "the lie"/UFO memes used to protect and hide the then new digital technology would cause us to forget some more important older analog history perhaps similar to the burning of the Library at Alexandria.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 08:09 AM
link   
a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Answers:

The Collins Elite is the faction.. and the people who support them would be those who are similarly christian/catholic and who, in general want to 'battle spiritual principalities'.

The Intelligence agencies have in the past, supported the nuts and bolts cover story for the reason that I had already posted.

The reason that i say the intelligence agencies are winning the fight is that our culture has been flooded with fake nuts and bolts UFO propaganda... it has not been flooded with the lets call it the 'Vallee Interpretation" which isn't correct either.. but at least it's closer. Yes, there are people who like this views, and occult groups and what not, but that's not the mainstream effort. That seems beyond painfully obvious to me at any rate. We have Star Trek and Star Wars and what not.. and not Mr. Sorceror summons the phenomenon movies so much.

As for not running as many operations now.. I can't say for certain if that is correct.. but it is certainly true, that now UFOlogists and the public in general are so well indoctrinated with 1984-true-speak that the delusions are self-reinforcing for the most part.

As for NIck Redfern; he gives large quantities of great references, including FOI, in some of his books, and other of his books are IMHO 'trashy' and written to pay the rent. I just take reputable evidence where I can find it, and ignore the rest.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 08:42 AM
link   
a reply to: KilgoreTrout




What I found interesting, in reflection with Rendlesham, is that the investigation was unable to find any involvement with CIA directed projects and the Air Force. Do you think that that is because the USAF did not experiment on their personnel? Or that it is just, as with Burroughs' own military files, that they don't share information with other goverment agencies? Or they got lost? The 1977 investigation certainly claims to have checked all the Air Force files, at multiple locations. The investigation wasn't looking at whether the Air Force had conducted human experiments it was just looking for experiments that had been conducted under the MK heading, it is therefore most probable that the Air Force and the CIA do not or did not work together, for one reason or another...in my opinion. And that shed, in my opinion, an interesting light on Rendlesham.


That's a tough paragraph to which to respond. I can't say how much the CIA and other intelligence services work with specific branches of the military. Now interestingly the Navy seems to have a closer relationship I would say.. and I do not know the basis of that. Also perhaps the Army what with Fort Meade and the fact that army staff took part in "RV programs". Perhaps your point about the Air Force is true. I can't say.

Now, one might wonder if RFI was a part of my hypothetical reboot of MK Ultra overseas.. but I have no logical basis for that supposition.

One might also wonder if, as some people say, it's really the civilian sector which is more deeply involved than the military or government sectors these days.. to hide form FOIA. Your much-maligned NIck Redfern says that, which I find credible. Just look at the Marconi/GE incident.. look at Bigelow BASS.. etc. I would tend to concur that the most sensitive stuff is now being contracted out to the private industry, to help compartmentalize and hide it.

As for RFI, as I have stated, IMHO the whole thing was a snooze fest.. a couple impressionable people got themslves all worked up and generated hysteria and some 'poltergeist phenomenon' as well. Now.. did they have some 'help' with some sort of EM or chemical trigger? I can't say for certain.

As for a 'panoramic picture of my own thoughts', I've been rather liberal with them, if you follow my posts across a variety of threads.

Is there some point you'd like me to clarify?



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 09:04 AM
link   
This is going to be one of those hugely off-topic posts.. please pardon me.

I'd just like to point out, that there are two modern myths that are extremely potent and extremely important to some interesting 'parties'. Those would be the crashed ancient AI myth, and the black knight satellite myth. Those are the two most dangerous and toxic myths on the planet in my view, other than of course the Abrahamic faiths. Now, I have a personal stake in this too.

When I had my black triangle UFO encounter, there was a phase where 'it' talked to me about all this crazy stuff. I knew that I must ignore anything 'it said', as it would all be a lie. ("Messengers of Deception") and personal experience. Well what were the two things it said to me? One was that it was a captured 'faerie' being forced by an alien AI to serve it, and that the BTUFO was 'home based' in the northern polar region. Now.. I personally had no desire to believe anything of this sort before the incident. These concepts were not particularly in my mind.. and I had expected something completely different from my experience. Yet this drekk was in there.

This tells me, that there is a POWERFUL belief in these myths in particular, in the let's call it "collective unconscious". Or perhaps someone wanted me to believe these myths so badly, that they staged the entire BTUFO encounter to respond this way. I do not find that credible..i'm not that important.

I really try to be open-minded about the whole BTUFO experience, and to not jump to conclusions.. in fact after 5 years I'm still processing it.

But in any case, I'm 99% certain that it was not the contents of my own mind, in terms of the AI/Polar thing, which caused it to be presented to me. I didn't believe in those myths then, and I do not believe in them now.

Now.. this post will probably summon a forum friend of mine/ours.. tho whom I might privately explain there are related concepts to the ones I call harmful myths that are true.. but I'd just like this close this post at this junction, with my opinion about those two myths in particular being 'special' in terms of power on a mythological potency scale.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 11:30 AM
link   
There is a tree of knowledge within the Rendlesham Forest that involves Salvadore Dali.
His best known "Bentwater" was painted in 1954.



My father was a mathematician who worked in the air force as a weatherman during the war so he may have signed non disclosure agreements to the effect that he would not talk about the altitude and air speed indicators the early Satellites were going to use. That would have been a good place to go home too, unfortunately I don't like "dogs that bite" so here I am still posting on this thread.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 01:24 PM
link   
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

i will have to google around a bit but in the 70's there was a guy i think his last name was Todd, he was HEAVY into the 'supernatural' and in one of his stories he talks about this UFO flap that he claims his sister caused by going out into a field and calling these balls of light up that people interpreted as ufo's.


looking back with a critical eye on some of my stranger experiences, for example when i saw what at the time I thought was an ET outside my window and actually got a picture of I believe might be something more nasty. During that time in my life i was struggling with alot of personal demons from my past and not dealing with them in a healthy way, i was in a very very dark place. And at the height of all of it i was seeing shadow people and one friend refuses to really talk to me after she saw a 'man' standing outside my bedroom disintegrate into the air.

Humans i think can act like a lighting rod so to speak that things can get attracted to and feed off of. My Mom, Grandma, Sister and me are all very intuitive and sensitive to the environment. I can't tell you the amount of times i have picked the phone up to call them and they are already on the line and other strange things. i'm not claiming i'm psychic or anything but i think people repress their natural abilities to feel the world around them.


but i will stick to my conclusions that the RFI was a technical con job or test.

and it appears to have been successful because they all apparently seem to think it was otherworldly or time travelers. I would be interested to know if any of the men and women had strange experiences before they joined the AF, and maybe that's why they were chosen as test subjects because their minds were primed to think it was something other then current tech.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 01:56 PM
link   
a reply to: penroc3

Good post.

I've been wondering for 5 years now, if some of the 'experiencers'
at RFI were experiencers even before being stationed there,
or if they had to be dosed with chemicals or zapped with EM
to make them experience something.

I don't have any idea.

It COULD have been 'shamanic deception hysteria priming"
or it could have been a pre-existing tendency (as you say)
or it might have been induced... or some combination
thereof.

I don't know.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 03:27 PM
link   
a reply to: Cauliflower

I'd appreciate a reply here.

When you post Dali's "Disintegration of the the Persistence of Time" and then an apparent word salad of unrelated things. What value is this to anyone?

Are you trying to come over all cryptic or something? Are these secret messages to someone else? Or perhaps you have some sort of problem?

I see you didn't explain yourself when KGT asked question here

So you post a Dali painting. Then something about a mathematician father who was an Air Force weatherman in the war. He was sworn to keep secrets about satellites that wouldn't be built until 13 years after WWII. The bit about it also being a good place to go home. What does that even mean in relation to the rest of the paragraph?

Oh and you don't like dogs that bite so you are still posting in this thread.

I don't think I am alone in wondering. What are you really doing in this thread?



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 03:38 PM
link   
a reply to: penroc3




And at the height of all of it i was seeing shadow people and one friend refuses to really talk to me after she saw a 'man' standing outside my bedroom disintegrate into the air.


When I was very young my father used to take me out deep into the woods and then run off and hide somewhere to see if I could find my way back home by reading the shadows in the snow. It was my mother that would disintegrate with analysis, she would still be there breathing and taking up physical space but the context of whatever it was she was talking about would be replaced/lost in an instant since she often didn't speak directly.



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 03:50 PM
link   
a reply to: mirageman

You are the OP of this thread, you didn't seem to approve when I suggested - "Will There Be An Answer?" might be from the "Let it be" song lyrics by the Beatles.

The satellite example I gave concerning my father was only to illustrate how easy it is to go home to a familiar "answer".
If we were to accept Rendlesham Forest as something trivial like an Iridium flare the mystery ends and we let that answer be.

Are you unaware that Dali painted military themes?
Left at the Gate and can't get inside RAF Bentwaters?



posted on Nov, 6 2018 @ 05:03 PM
link   
a reply to: Cauliflower

The Beatles song "Let it Be" does not contain the lyric "Will there be an answer?" and was not on "The Beatles" as it is officially called (aka the White Album). You were obviously unaware of those details. So when you say...



Are you unaware that Dali painted military themes? Left at the Gate and can't get inside RAF Bentwaters?


Why should I, or people reading this thread, be aware of the artwork of Salvador Dali without you offering any explanation? Especially when you can't even be bothered checking your apparent Beatles references.

Anyway I think it best we get back on topic.....




edit on 6/11/2018 by mirageman because: typo



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 12:41 AM
link   
Whats this about biting dogs and Dali . More details required re the Dali thing.


edit on 7-11-2018 by Baablacksheep because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 12:49 AM
link   
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Understood now.



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 04:55 AM
link   

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear


Answers:

The Collins Elite is the faction.. and the people who support them would be those who are similarly christian/catholic and who, in general want to 'battle spiritual principalities'.


It is a funny thing, if I were to walk up to any priest from the orthodox Christian faiths and ask them about demons, spirits and the such-like, I would be likely to be told that those things are meant to be interpreted psychologically. For example, amongst Anglicans, it is usually preached that when Jesus cast out the seven demons that had "possessed" Mary Magdalene, he was curing her of her mental health problems, and certainly if we incorporate some of the texts that were rejected by the Nicene Creed, plus those uncovered amongst the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi cache, the stories built up around the character of Mary tell of a troubled life prior to her meeting with the figure of Jesus. Presumably, adaptively, they have taken that on board. It is, I suppose, a matter of the Priests interpreting the bible stories for the audience that they are preaching to. Demons wouldn't go down too well amongst the majority of British church goers but in the US it seems that the target audience may be more inclined towards literal translations. Reading some of the tens of thousands of accounts of those that have come forward to report sexual abuse by Priests in the US and elsewhere, it appears that demons are very much a part of the grooming process in the US and Canadian cases. Children from impoverished communities, lacking access to education and often with disinterested parents who "worshipped" the Priesthood, were sometimes told that the abuse was part of their treatment for being evil. Under such circumstances it is understandable that they could be led into a belief in demonic entities and spirits, but what excuse would an "elite" have for being led into that belief?

I take it from your response that Redfern doesn't go into specifics...more of a finger waving than pointing?


originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

The Intelligence agencies have in the past, supported the nuts and bolts cover story for the reason that I had already posted.


Well they are human just like the rest of us. It may be that those that supported a nuts and bolts cover story actually believed that that was the truth or at least their best guess. Or that the nuts and bolt story was used to cover up one-thing without realising that there was another situation that they were not aware of or responsible for. Upon realising that then the nuts and bolts would be used as a cover for their own ignorance in the matter while they collected intelligence on that new "threat". They are never, under any circumstances, going to admit to not knowing about a potential threat until that potential threat has been neutralised or obviously found to not be a threat.

As you pointed out, it is easy to assume that the "bad guys" have it together when more often than not they are making it up as they go along. It is also easy to assume that the "bad guys" think what they are doing is bad. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.



originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
The reason that i say the intelligence agencies are winning the fight is that our culture has been flooded with fake nuts and bolts UFO propaganda... it has not been flooded with the lets call it the 'Vallee Interpretation" which isn't correct either.. but at least it's closer. Yes, there are people who like this views, and occult groups and what not, but that's not the mainstream effort. That seems beyond painfully obvious to me at any rate. We have Star Trek and Star Wars and what not.. and not Mr. Sorceror summons the phenomenon movies so much.


I don't know, the Lord of the Rings franchise may beg to differ, as well as the fantasy fiction genre in general.


originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
As for not running as many operations now.. I can't say for certain if that is correct.. but it is certainly true, that now UFOlogists and the public in general are so well indoctrinated with 1984-true-speak that the delusions are self-reinforcing for the most part.

As for NIck Redfern; he gives large quantities of great references, including FOI, in some of his books, and other of his books are IMHO 'trashy' and written to pay the rent. I just take reputable evidence where I can find it, and ignore the rest.



And do his references check out? What sources does he give for the Collins Elite and their christian handlers, and how does he investigate the validity of their claims?



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 05:34 AM
link   
a reply to: Baablacksheep

Dali painted the same setting three different ways, all popularly identified with the cliffs of Spian.
The last 1954 version "The Disintegration of the Persistence of Memory" is closest to the Rendlesham "eye witness" drawing.



The original Persistence of memory from 1931 has shadow detail that offers clues from the way it is lit. Dali at least giving us the time of day in that version.

Dali painted the same scene in 1939. Armed with the knowledge that this was envisioned circa WW1 in a sort of Davinci mirror imagery, there is bent Rhine wasser in the foreground that creates an illusion against a dark background. Many people don't recognize this, and identify the illusion as a dog bite instead.

I actually question whether the Rendlesham Forest incident is an independent UFO observation or a Dali inspired epiphany?

You are going to get all kinds of interpretations some as wild as Charlie Mansons ravings about the Beatle's white album.



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 05:35 AM
link   

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
I can't say how much the CIA and other intelligence services work with specific branches of the military. Now interestingly the Navy seems to have a closer relationship I would say.. and I do not know the basis of that.


Traditionally, the naval divisions have greater responsibility for intelligence, this is particularly true of the dominant sea-powers, those that most rely on the maintenance of sea-trade routes. The land forces were generally considered the lesser partners in intelligence gathering and distribution, and dependent on the Navy. The development of air forces, and the introduction of telegraph then radio greatly changed those dynamics, and certainly, in the UK and US, the air force was fundamental in the establishment of modern SISs. I don't think it is as simple as the USAF not being included in CIA operations but that they were specifically not being included in the MK programs.


originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
Now, one might wonder if RFI was a part of my hypothetical reboot of MK Ultra overseas.. but I have no logical basis for that supposition.


I don't think a reboot is necessary. The MK programs were to gain insight and information that could be applied in the field, having gained that they presumably apply it in the field...or forest, as the case may be.


originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
One might also wonder if, as some people say, it's really the civilian sector which is more deeply involved than the military or government sectors these days.. to hide form FOIA. Your much-maligned NIck Redfern says that, which I find credible. Just look at the Marconi/GE incident.. look at Bigelow BASS.. etc. I would tend to concur that the most sensitive stuff is now being contracted out to the private industry, to help compartmentalize and hide it.


I don't think you can claim that Nick Redfern has been "much-maligned" by me, or anyone else for that matter, he appears to be doing awfully well for himself and keeping his readership entertained. I doubt my opinion is of any consequence to any of you.


originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
As for RFI, as I have stated, IMHO the whole thing was a snooze fest.. a couple impressionable people got themslves all worked up and generated hysteria and some 'poltergeist phenomenon' as well. Now.. did they have some 'help' with some sort of EM or chemical trigger? I can't say for certain.

As for a 'panoramic picture of my own thoughts', I've been rather liberal with them, if you follow my posts across a variety of threads.


I realise that you have spoken often and at length about your personal beliefs on this matter and others but I was trying to get more of an understanding of how those fit into the larger landscape beyond what you believe. It is all very well to know yourself, to gaze deeply into one's navel and feel a certainty of perception but there are all sorts of spheres of activity that cross-over and collide with the events at RFI that help to place those events in a wider context, which may in turn better help us to understand why and how the CIA and others have felt the need to obfuscate and deceive us (and perhaps themselves). If as you say you lack interest in RFI then it stands to reason that you wouldn't have explored the wider territory, but I was working more from your satisfaction with the explanation you had come up with some years ago and was wanting to understand that perspective better even if I don't share it.






posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 05:53 AM
link   

originally posted by: Cauliflower
Lockheed was using the U2 and the faster A12/SR71 to test camera equipment(for the later satellite applications), I think the earliest U2 program started about 1953.


As I understood it, the U2 was first developed for the USAF but they baulked at the idea of speeding X-amount of dollars on something with no pay-load, but that the CIA took it on as they didn't want to have weapons so that they could have plausible deniability if spotted where they shouldn't be...or something along those lines. Either way, Lockheed got the contract that it needed.

However what I was interested in, and I read it in either Gordon Kinsey or Paddy Heazell's books on Orfordness...but I don't know which and can't check, is that at the time of Cobra Mist the CIA and the USAF were "bitter rivals" because the CIA had been placed in control of the satellite program. It seems that prior to that the two were on reasonably good terms, members of the USAF had leadership roles in the CIA but at some point, for some reason, something changed and there was a rift, and that seems to be to do with satellites. I perhaps need to do a little bit more digging, but one can imagine that the spy plane issue, and Lockheed taking up position as piggy in the middle between the two may have pre-empted the situation.


originally posted by: Cauliflower
Theoretically they could have used film with those systems however traveling at high speeds there are limits imposed by the necessary exposure time(of film). They probably used some sort of charge coupled array device to actually capture image detail and then buffered that digitized data just long enough that they could make permanent film prints with a Digital to Analog process. Very secret in the 50's and 60's however artists like Salvadore Dali integrated some of this in their art works.

I think Dali's point was that "the lie"/UFO memes used to protect and hide the then new digital technology would cause us to forget some more important older analog history perhaps similar to the burning of the Library at Alexandria.


I don't like Dali's work and I am somewhat ashamed to say that that has prevented me from examining it in the past. I will try and find the time to remedy that. He did I know move in some influential circles. I don't know about the digital/film thing, but as I understand it, good quality film still provides deeper image quality than digital - all else being equal - but magnification devices are considerably lighter with digital I suppose...and it delivers those images quicker.



posted on Nov, 7 2018 @ 06:07 AM
link   
a reply to: Cauliflower

Sorry Cauliflower.

You're making two mistakes here. Chronically underestimating the capabilities of film stock, and overestimating the capabilities of CCDs and digital technology.

I don't think you can look to CCDs. CCDs only came into commercial use in the late 70s / 80s.For military use, their exposure latitude, low resolution, smearing, bayer issues would totally remove them from intelligence work.

They had huge problems with tonal ranges, would require a bayer filter, dropping the resolution by two thirds. You would then need enough ram to create a buffer, and clock speed and bus with a high enough speed to capture that image.

What kind of resolution do you think they could achieve back in the 50,60s or 70s. Even the 80s?

You suggested that they 'buffered the digitised data' just long enough. Long enough for what? To store one image, land and have it converted to film?

Or, are you suggesting they buffer 20 - 30 images. We aren't talking JPEGs. We are talking binary uncompressed files of binary images of a very high resolution.

Did they offload them when they landed, or do you think there was a WIFI equivalent to transmit whilst in flight?

Sorry - they used film canisters. High resolution, immensely better tonal range. Fast exposure speeds. Small, compact.

Of course, if you can refer me to the type of CCD used, the bayer arrangement, the format the binary was stored in or something like that I can take a look, but you are looking at a non problem in my opinion. Film doesn't have the issues you imagine.




top topics



 
39
<< 38  39  40    42  43  44 >>

log in

join