Rendlesham Forest 1980 Pt II - Will There Be An Answer?

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout

originally posted by: mirageman
Jokey comments (of course!) and a little thread drift is fine. But let's try to exercise some self discipline here and not forget what this thread is about.

Is that fair comment?

Indeed, and with the new season here, you and the girls must be simply itching to get down to the important business of the Rendlesham fashion review.

No worries, apologies for the seemingly irrelevant drift.

The links I have provided have given me more of an insight into what may have led to any potential causing effect.

The Cloudbuster set up can be linked to a HF Antenna monopoles using ground wave excitation in a form of communication what was termed in 1979 as Zenneck Waves.

This would have, and is still, classified in research and implementation terms.

Why?

In the event of a nuclear war, this would seem the only viable option as a form of global communication channel as part of or back up to failures due to strike.

Some of the links I have, led to links that 'tried to' infect my computer. I will be trying to get round this and I do not want to unintentionally infect anyone else by providing the relevant links.


More to follow....

To give people a chance to look at what is partly being described, for now, can be found within the following links.

I will be quoting from them but one step at a time.

2003
Plasma antennas: survey of techniques
and the current state of the art
Jenn, David C.
Monterey, California. Naval Postgraduate School
core.ac.uk...

. Abstract Lecture Series No. 131, concerned with the performance of antennas in their operational environment, is sponsored by the Electromagnetic Wave Propagation Panel of AGARD and implemented by the Consultant and Exchange Programme. Antennas can provide gain in any direction, and the effect of the operating environment on this parameter is fundamentally important for the performance of radio systems. Yet the effect of the environment on antennas is often overlooked. The performance of the antennas is more usually specified in terms of its operation over a perfectly conducting flat ground plane. This Lecture Series covers: techniques for measurement/prediction (numerical and experimental modelling); performance of fixed and transportable antennas (terrain effects, masts and buildings effects, re-radiation by supporting towers); performance of mobile antennas (effects of supporting platforms such as aircraft, ships and automobiles); performance of antennas in plasmas.

www.dtic.mil...

Surface plasmon polaritons can be excited by electrons or photons. In the case of photons, it cannot be done directly, but requires a prism, or a grating, or a defect on the metal surface.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: mirageman

Well.

When i was in the military for 8 years, the one time of the year
when people were most likely to be on vacation, if they
could get the time off, was during Christmas.

So, IF a test was going to be run against base personnel,
this would be the worst time (you want to maximize who
is there, not minimize).

I guess this is why i go with accident more than test.

Could be that a test from some other location was being run and the base personnel got involved in something they shouldn't have done. The first night suspected air crash triggered an off base investigation. But we still don't know why a number of personnel with portable lighting rigs were operating off base in the forest two nights later seemingly without permission of UK authorities. So, yes, accident would probably be the better description.

a reply to: mirageman

You just encapsulated what I find most likely.

A test in the neighborhood.. wound up splashing over into the
twin bases...

Jacques talked about those lightalls and cameras quite a bit.

Kev

a reply to: AdamE

Ah... This whole non linear optical medium thing I've been talking about for Years. Now you're getting somewhere. Plasmas can do a lot more than just being antennas or reflectors. But thats all I got to say about that.

Winter 12-1-1979
On Optimum Excitation of Ground Waves
David C. Chang
University of Colorado Boulder
Edward F. Kuester
University of Colorado Boulder

link not working. Google it.

This paper discusses Zenneck waves and whether the total ground field can be enhanced.

a reply to: AdamE

Like ratheons High Frequency Surface Wave Radar for navy usage. Good for detecting ships over the horizon or line of sight from traditional radar. Could probably be used to send signals over land semi covertly. Especially if no ones looking for them.

But plasma...orbs of light...beams...any other uses than radar?

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: AdamE

Like ratheons High Frequency Surface Wave Radar for navy usage. Good for detecting ships over the horizon or line of sight from traditional radar. Could probably be used to send signals over land semi covertly. Especially if no ones looking for them.

But plasma...orbs of light...beams...any other uses than radar?

Among the various things previously discussed from www.ovnis-armee.org...

Turning things on and off as well as communication and or moving objects from point to point?

a reply to: AdamE

Good link.

There's one biggie it missed though.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: AdamE

Good link.

There's one biggie it missed though.

Taking out fast moving objects from the air and ground, instantly?
If I am missing anything then may I ask, please carry on?

a reply to: AdamE

With the greatest respect, I mean, very interesting. Actually that was just for Kev.

I certainly don't have the qualifications to understand that pdf about Plasma antennas or Optimum Excitation of Ground Waves without taking a physics degree. However I don't think it's necessary for anyone else to read them if you've done the groundwork.

I would say what we are all more interested in is :


1) Who was responsible for the "The Cloudbuster" set up you have alluded to?

2) What evidence do you have for this being in place near enough to Woodbridge/Bentwaters and Rendlesham Forest in December 1980?

3) If we can we prove the above then is it likely it was used during the specific 3/4 days over Christmas 1980?

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: AdamE

With the greatest respect, I mean, very interesting. Actually that was just for Kev.

I certainly don't have the qualifications to understand that pdf about Plasma antennas or Optimum Excitation of Ground Waves without taking a physics degree. However I don't think it's necessary for anyone else to read them if you've done the groundwork.

I would say what we are all more interested in is :


1) Who was responsible for the "The Cloudbuster" set up you have alluded to?

2) What evidence do you have for this being in place near enough to Woodbridge/Bentwaters and Rendlesham Forest in December 1980?

3) If we can we prove the above then is it likely it was used during the specific 3/4 days over Christmas 1980?

I understand and agreed with the sentiments.

I agree with them in general, and I did not mean to point the finger at any particular individual by using the quote either as I have been guilty of similar things in the past.

It gave me a platform to use and expand on, but if any offence or misunderstanding was made on my part in this regard then my apologies to Kev.

I will address your questions in a separate reply. but I will be thoroughly scanning my computer first before I share anything I have on file. So a cup (or 20) cups of coffee may be required. Just informing in case it takes any longer than expected. Staring at a screen is bad for the eyes!

a reply to: AdamE

Don't apologise.

That was just a joke for Kev who now has a table of "Britishisms" to refer to. No matter how silly he finds the idea of having a Queen is. I am sure he is eating some fish & chips. To be followed by a nice jam and cream scone and a cup of English tea in his local Brit themed pub on a lazy autumnal Californian Sunday.

I was actually just making the point that if you've worked something out just give us the bullet points.

But first disinfect that computer!

a reply to: mirageman

Rendlesham isn't about a cloud buster. Learn about the uses of non linear optical mediums.

This is what I'm thinking could of happened over the few nights in Dec 80,
First of all the lights are some sort of natural or even paranormal phenomena in that area ( around Woodbridge base) and are seen and investigated on the nights of 25 -26 and 26-27.
The night of 27-28 I have two possible events.
1, an accident, i,e, a tactical nuke falls from an f1-11 and drops in Forrest with subsequent uranium leek.
2, CIA with the help from British scientists have a top secret operation running to bring down a Russian satellite and a part or all of if it comes down in the forest.
The intelligence services on hearing about the lights then decide incorporate them into a UFO cover story and put all witnesses under chemical regression with some getting a more detailed story than others, like bustinza and Warren.
would like to know what you all think of my wild theroys.😀

originally posted by: wobbs62
The intelligence services on hearing about the lights then decide incorporate them into a UFO cover story and put all witnesses under chemical regression with some getting a more detailed story than others, like bustinza and Warren.
would like to know what you all think of my wild theroys.😀

I still think a UFO cover story or "Unidentified lights" (as Halt referred to the saga) is counterproductive for diverting attention - less so if for the MOD's eyes only; more problematic when folks like us got wind of it three years after the incident.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

In that situation there couldn't be much more one could do to try and muddy the waters though, eh? UFOs automatically make the majority of the population think it's just a bunch of loonies and tune the story out. Moreso in the past as more folk have come to be more open to the mystery.

One of the most useful things one can do when undertaking the study of the phenomena is to survey the intelligence community's use of the UFO mythology for disinformation. There's more documentation and deceit than most of us realize when we first start digging. In fact the argument has been made by some excellent researchers that modern ufology was basically birthed by the IC/MIC for that very reason.

That's not to say there's nothing anomalous to UFOs--I definitely believe in many cases there is--only that much of what's grown in popular culture is a product of that kind of propaganda.

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

In that situation there couldn't be much more one could do to try and muddy the waters though, eh? UFOs automatically make the majority of the population think it's just a bunch of loonies and tune the story out. Moreso in the past as more folk have come to be more open to the mystery.

I can easily see it both ways, GUT, swaying back and forth, but you're right that these days UFO cover stories are less likely than in the past.

I still need to get properly stuck into the old Doty saga, for example, where such a cover story is initially directed at one individual overlooking a base; I'm not sure how wide the decoy story reached as far as the public and press were concerned, but I'll look into it.

PS: You were right to dissuade me from giving up discussing this whole topic a few weeks ago when I felt I had little to contribute, but my education is growing fast. I've even begun stomping my foot down over the ridiculing (ie the MANNER of ridicule) of members starting their own 'experience threads' - blimey, I seem to be getting more passionate by the day.


PPS: Is it my imagination or is the UFO forum hotting up? Seems much more busy lately.

Have you happened across the following items yet? Here's an excerpt from a declassified CIA doc that requires a little stamina to get through, but contains some nuggets such as:

CIA, under its assigned responsibilities, and in cooperation with the psychological strategy board, immediately investigate possible offensive or defensive utilization of the phenomena for psychological warfare purposes both for and against the United States, advising those agencies charged with U.S. internal security of any pertinent findings affecting their areas of responsibility. www.deeppoliticsforum.com...

Then we have the so-called Pentacle Memo:

Among other things, this document contains confirmation that Battelle Memorial Institute was working on UFO project(s) at the time of the Robertson Panel, (January 1953), and apparently could exercise some amount of control over the handling of the subject matter. 
www.cufon.org...

Therefore, we recommend that a controlled experiment be set up by which reliable physical data can be obtained. A tentative preliminary plan by which the experiment could be designed and carried out is discussed in the following paragraphs.

Assuming that, from our analysis, several definite areas productive of reports can be selected, we recommend that one or two of theses areas be set up as experimental areas. This area, or areas, should have observation posts with complete visual skywatch, with radar and photographic coverage, plus all other instruments necessary or helpful in obtaining positive and reliable data on everything in the air over the area. A very complete record of the weather should also be kept during the time of the experiment.

Coverage should be so complete that any object in the air could be tracked, and information as to its altitude, velocity, size, shape, color, time of day, etc. could be recorded. All balloon releases or known balloon paths, aircraft flights, and flights of rockets in the test area should be known to those in charge of the experiment. Many different types of aerial activity should be secretly and purposefully scheduled within the area.
www.philipcoppens.com...

This [Pentacle Memo] was the report that was also at the core of [Dr.] Leon Davidson’s enquiries and which made him conclude that the US government were using UFOs as part of a psychological warfare exercise…

...But Davidson pointed out that as early as 1945, mechanical countermeasures against radar had become publicly known – and used. It was known that these could cause blips on the radar screen, resulting in incorrect range, speed, or heading. This was called Electronic Countermeasures and Davidson believed this method of counterintelligence was used to present the myth that “UFOs” existed.

Davidson drew the infamous equation: ECM+CIA=UFO, suggesting that the CIA were creating ECM signals on radars, so that people would believe in the presence of UFOs, as they confirmed eyewitness accounts of anomalous objects in the sky. Furthermore, the anomalous blips were a perfect mechanism to distort the true capabilities of any new aircraft that was being test-flown – occasional sightings of which were passed off as UFOs too.
www.philipcoppens.com...

ECM + CIA = UFO-or-How to Cause a Radar Sighting by Dr. Leon Davidson

I'm not saying that the CIA and Air Force and Naval Intelligence apparatus don't believe that there is an anomalous phenomenon, I'm just suggesting that they've used it for their own purposes and rather than cover up, they propagate their own mythology for myriad purposes.

I would further proffer that maybe, just maybe, one of those myriad purposes would include covering up their own ignorance. It's a lot more psychologically powerful for your enemies to believe that you have crashed craft and the knowledge that would come with it than to admit that after 60+ years of interest you still didn't know jack.

That the early UFO organizations were infiltrated by the CIA is a fairly well-known fact.

Further evidence of CIA influence in NICAP developed during the period
immediately before NICAP's decline. On December 3, 1969, Donald Keyhoe
was ousted as NICAP's Director during a Board meeting. Who led the
effort to remove Keyhoe? The Chairman of the Board, Col. Joesph Bryan,
former Chief of the CIA's Psychological Warfare Staff (1947-1953). And
who replaced Keyhoe? John Acuff, who was the head of the Society of
Photographic Scientists and Engineers (SPSE), a frequent target of
Russian spying attempts and a group that had many members involved in
Defense Department intelligence units, including the CIA.

His management of NICAP was financially "tight' (in the cheap sense) and
totally inept in a research sense. Criticism of government UFO policy
was gone, and NICAP merely served as a sighting collection center.
Acuff's management drove loyal NICAP Board members away and ultmately
led to Acuff's downfall in 1978.

Who replaced Acuff? None other than Alan Hall, a retired CIA employee,
who accepted the position after a number of other CIA employees were
offered the job. Support for Hall from the NICAP Board came from
Charles Lombard, an aide to Senator Goldwater and former CIA covert
employee.

NICAP eventually became so ineffective that it was dissolved, and the
group's UFO files were absorbed by the Center for UFO Studies in
Evanston, Illinois.

There certainly seems to be a pattern behind NICAP's destruction. Is it
a coincidence that so many ex-CIA people became deeply involved in the
operation of NICAP? It is possible that the CIA wanted to influence
NICAP activities for several reasons:

1) To gather intelligence through NICAP's investigators network.

2) To identify and plug leaks from government soures (NICAP was
renowned for receiving military-oriented reports).

3) To monitor other hostile intelligence agencies (NICAP received
several overtures from the Soviet KGB).
ufoupdateslist.com...

What becomes a little more obscure is the CIA's possible manipulation of the contactee movement.

George Adamski

Adamski UFO Photo

In "Unidentified Fascist Observatories", John Judge asserts that Adamski was an asset of the CIA, who in his lecture tours throughout the 50's and 60's dispersed disinfo on behalf of the Company.www.conspiracyarchive.com...

Allen Dulles, CIA

The Pied Pipers of the CIA
...In short, Menger’s story was a CIA experiment to see how easily and whom specifically could be fooled into believing anything...

...More significantly, it is now known that Adamski was the same: he was not only encouraged in his work, but actively supported and assisted, by the CIA.

This became known – though not widely reported when scientists attempting to investigate Adamski's claims (in an effort to discredit him and stop him in his tracks) were warned off by CIA Director Allen Dulles in person. And research has shown that during tours of Europe and Australia to promote his “message”, Adamski travelled on a passport furnished by the CIA. www.philipcoppens.com...

(Flying Saucer Review 1960 Credit: Kandinsky)

Finally, there is the tale of Howard Menger, author of the book From Outer Space to You. As the late and renowned Fortean authority John Keel noted in letters to the UFO researcher Gray Barker and Saucer Smear editor Jim Moseley, Menger termed his book “fiction-fact” and implied that the Pentagon had asked him to participate in an experiment to test the public’s reaction to extra-terrestrial contact…
mysteriousuniverse.org...

a reply to: The GUT


Cheers, mate - that's a mighty feast of info that I shall start chomping on tomorrow.