Rendlesham Forest 1980 Pt II - Will There Be An Answer?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You welcome, I think it made sense, lol.

originally posted by: Baablacksheep
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Perhaps the players involved in all things RFI would also love to walk away too, but its stuck with them for life kind of thing.

Well, the main universally acknowledged players are Halt, Penniston and Burroughs, and they seem to have all made conscious decisions to prolong their time in the spotlight in varying forms - whether doorstop books with unsubstantiated ET claims, fantastical embellishments leading to, yes, more books, or regular radio shows that specifically deal with the topic. Oh, and bagpipes.

Like many other personnel those three days, beyond a few scattered interviews over 38 years, they could have all zipped their mouths and easily dodged the spotlight.

Their deliberate prolonging feeds OUR prolonging. Pigsy need not be too concerned about piecing the jigsaw together; it's the fascinating people like yourself contributing to this thread that make it a pleasure to visit, rather than torturing ourselves over Facts and Reality.

It's basically enjoyable banter with the occasional gag thrown in.

I thought that I'd include this very handy British to Rude Yank
translation matrix for use in translating posts for us yanks;

www.quora.com...

(Warning! Warning! Utterly hilarious -- scroll down to table)

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Classic! Ta for that, mate.

Bookmarked.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

With the greatest respect, I mean, very interesting and all. But I would suggest we get back on topic.

a reply to: mirageman

Text

yes, it's all a bit Bob lazar.

originally posted by: AdamE
Very good post. For me personally, it could explain or part explain the reason I do not fear what happens when I pass. The dreamstate also plays a part I feel, and being able to recognize when one is in a dreamstate, whilst still in the dreamstate, is a mind opener, imo. Just takes practice, like many things, but this may just be an uneducated generalisation in terms of only speaking from my own perspective.

Thanks Adam. I can't say that I am all that worried about what happens when I pass, my concern is more about the when, particularly since my son's father died. That sort of thing kind of gets you pulling up your socks and taking stock and in my experience that can lead to anxiety attacks when the scale of responsibility hits home. Despite a very cool and calm exterior I am secretly terrified of leaving my son an orphan or just really #ing up.

Knowing that I have had that well of panic bubbling just below the surface for the past couple of years has meant that I am highly cautious with my state of mind, it takes discipline to maintain the balance and it's all too easy to slip between the boundaries of illusion and delusion, so I err on the side of caution. I can't though ever remember being aware of being in a dream, when I am in a dream (as demonstrated by my sleep walking story I think) but when I get "delusional", I usually know that it is delusion...the difficulty is when the delusion is so invitingly attractive, and those delusions do take you to interesting places. As a sensible, responsible parent though, I choose not to follow and reign myself back in. I'm getting a better sense of the controls with each step I take however, so it's all good.

In bringing this into the focus of RFI, there are any number of ways and means to induce hypnogogic states, including oxidative stress, poor diet or even an infestation of bed-bugs, all of which could have occurred "accidentally". That we know from our own experiences, both via meditation training and through being whack-jobs like myself or anyone who has ever had a high fever or taken psychotropics, is that much depends upon your terms of reference and the traditions of understanding that you belong to, in how such hypnogogic states will manifest but that often, in all those "states" there is a potential for an internal projection that changes the appearance of the external world. From my experience it's kind of like the filters on perception have been changed or distorted. Some of those changes can be positive, and enhance reality, while some are negative, and can make reality quite frightening. I think LaPlume is a good example of the latter, his paranoia and hypersensitivity to what was being "unsaid" around him, are feelings that I think most anyone can relate to in it's less exaggerated/unfiltered form. As can his subsequent to present time, nervousness in speaking about those events, it was out of his character, he knows that. In my opinion.

It all indicates to me that whatever was going on only peaked over the three nights.

originally posted by: AdamE
Historically, it would seem to suggest that much information described by various different religions goes back to Zoroastrianism. This was a practice like Buddhist, Qigong approach, or 'The Way' as far as one can tell. Body energy and the energy of surrounding nature combined, connected, always. This would in turn lead to the tapping of nature, with practice leading to manipulation of nature itself?
Hence the apparent healing techniques that can stem from such practices?

I think we should perhaps say "alleged" healing techniques

And while I certainly think that we can become highly conscious of the natural world around us, and by paying attention develop a deep understanding of the world of biosemiotics which is able to inform us of subtle changes in our environment that can serve as predictors and indicators, just as a good mentalist can do with their "mark", it is us (the audience) who is invariably being manipulated.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

I absolutely sympathise with your own state of mind. Your descriptions bare uncanny similarities to some of the issues I have tried to come to terms with and I am sure there are others that can relate too.

In reply to your quote..

It all indicates to me that whatever was going on only peaked over the three nights.

I am still reading the 'Water' link I posted, - www.waterjournal.org...-brief-review

but just a thought in the meantime.

Would the following bare any effect to the region in combination with the theories laid out in the link? This is a question I am asking myself, as well as in general. I will get back to you on this.

www.nasa.gov...

a reply to: AdamE

The portal stuff is 6 years old😐.

originally posted by: AdamE
I am still reading the 'Water' link I posted, - www.waterjournal.org...-brief-review

but just a thought in the meantime.

Would the following bare any effect to the region in combination with the theories laid out in the link? This is a question I am asking myself, as well as in general. I will get back to you on this.

www.nasa.gov...

The first link I'm leaning towards "meh"...it's all trying a little too hard...we do know how to make weather but that we do not understand all of the mechanisms involved in our hydrological systems has been made evident in recent years with the discoveries of a rich array of microbial life that were previously invisible to us. Some of which we have already confirmed to be involved in precipitating weather, others remain a mystery as to where they fit into ecological systems but most of which can only be studied in the "wild". It is difficult to say what studies will reveal, but already, to my mind, it indicates that some of the rituals of rainmaking that have previously be classified as sympathetic magic may have a more symbiotic basis. That's all very much up in the air at this point in time though...literally and figuratively.

"Portals" through which highly charged particles - photons and electrons and the such like - can pass through into our atmosphere could explain some earth bound events in terms of Cherenkov radiation which could manifest "symptoms" internally and externally. Similar effects experienced by astronauts to those types of radiation are fairly well documented...

Hypothetical early and late effects on the central nervous system are of great concern to NASA and an area of active current research interest. It is postulated short- and long-term effects of CNS exposure to galactic cosmic radiation are likely to pose significant neurological health risks to human long-term space travel.[34][35] Estimates suggest considerable exposure to high energy heavy (HZE) ions as well as protons and secondary radiation during Mars or prolonged Lunar missions with estimates of whole body effective doses ranging from 0.17 to greater than 1.0 Sv.[36] Given the high linear energy transfer potential of such particles, a considerable proportion of those cells exposed to HZE radiation are likely to die. Based on calculations of heavy ion fluences during space flight as well as various experimental cell models, as many as 5% of an astronaut’s cells might be killed during such missions.[37][38] With respect to cells in critical brain regions, as many as 13% of such cells may be traversed at least once by an iron ion during a three-year Mars mission.[3][39] Several Apollo astronauts reported seeing light flashes, although the precise biological mechanisms responsible are unclear. Likely pathways include heavy ion interactions with retinal photoreceptors[40] and Cherenkov radiation resulting from particle interactions within the vitreous humor.[41] This phenomenon has been replicated on Earth by scientists at various institutions.[42][43] As the duration of the longest Apollo flights was less than two weeks, the astronauts had limited cumulative exposures and a corresponding low risk for radiation carcinogenesis. In addition, there were only 24 such astronauts, making statistical analysis of any potential health effects problematic.

en.wikipedia.org...

It does kind does make you wonder about all those who have in the past claimed to have been subjected to "cosmic rays" going all the way back to Daniel Schreber.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

I’m intrigued by your post (I tend to read posts/replies from bottom of page up — out of order) and feel comfortable that we have the leeway to thread drift...

Have you seen Linklater’s Waking Life? If so, I’d be curious as to what you thought about the film and if you have had any “waking” experience(s). If not, watch it with quickness.

And mad props for being the best dad you can be. That sh$t matters, as I’m sure you know.

originally posted by: AdamE
I am still reading the 'Water' link I posted, - www.waterjournal.org...-brief-review

I was looking at this the wrong way entirely. I apologise. It actually demonstrates really well Donald Schon's theory of "ideas in good currency"...

"Ideas in good currency emerge in time, and the situations to which they refer change underneath the very process of deliberation. Not infrequently, the change takes place as a result of public debate and attention." P10 Systems Thinkers, OU Press.

"...what precipitates a change in that system of powerful ideas is a disruptive event or sequence of events, which sets up a demand for new ideas in good currency. At that point ideas already present in free or marginal areas of the society begin to surface in the mainstream, mediated by certain crucial roles." P11 Systems Thinkers

Reich's adherents can probably consider themselves somewhat vindicated but I think the difficulty was that he (and his followers) institutionalised those ideas which is why rather than develop they remained in a time warp, inflexible and failed to evolve, whereas the ideas of say James Clerk Maxwell were nurtured then left to bloom in someone else's mind which is really the beauty of the scientific method whatever other faults it may have.

Anyway, to say it was "meh" was rude and dismissive even if I didn't mean it that way, but I clearly did need to give the matter more thought. I don't think that simply making rain where there is no rain is a viable solution if you are working with the information supplied by Reich. It could do far more harm than good. Planting trees is a far better way of making rain.

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

No I haven't seen it...yet, I suppose. I'll try.

Do you think I may be having an existential crisis?

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Cherenkov radiation won't cause hallucinations or psychosis.

If you can understand why "UFOs" often exhibit Cerenkov radiation youd understand the conditions present that lead to potential hallucinations, electrical failures etc. But its not from gamma rays that ufos produce Cherenkov radiation.

I gotta say it. I am losing clarity on why some posts in this thread bear no relation to the Rendlesham Incident.



Perhaps a different thread is needed so people can discuss the seemingly random things that seem to have come up here in a more suitable place. The old RFI thread and a number of others are/were similarly clogged and bogged down with a lot of irrelevant and irreverent chatter (and I take the blame myself for a lot of that too).

However I think with this new thread it is an opportunity to keep it leaner, cleaner and on topic to a much larger degree. I am sure there are plenty of other people reading this who haven't a clue at times what any of the posts here actually have to do with the Rendlesham Forest Incident. That probably inhibits them from joining in the conversation and perhaps offering a fresh perspective.

I am not running to the Mods or singling out any one individual. We all must collectively take the blame for drifting way off topic at times. I am just asking for people to apply some precision of thought before posting in a thread that is primarily about the Rendlesham Forest Incident.

What I mean specifically by that is to ask everyone first evaluate whether what you are posting has anything to do with the incident. If it does (in your own mind) then also consider whether others will understand your thought process. You might need to explain in a little more detail why and how you are relating it to the incident?

Jokey comments (of course!) and a little thread drift is fine. But let's try to exercise some self discipline here and not forget what this thread is about.

Is that fair comment?

a reply to: mirageman

Fair enough.

a reply to: mirageman

You ARE the captain on the bridge of this thread, MM, so I respect your stance.

Good point about ATS members new to the case potentially feeling a bit lost at times, because I felt that myself when lurking on the old thread a few months ago before joining ATS. I made an earlier observation about the good camaraderie that exists between thread contributors leading to a bit of "banter", but yeah, it should still link to the RFI.

To be honest, some of the 'drifts' you mention are interesting enough to be worthy of their own threads, and there's nothing to stop that happening - with the added bonus of flags, of course.

originally posted by: mirageman
I gotta say it. I am losing clarity on why some posts in this thread bear no relation to the Rendlesham Incident.

Perhaps a different thread is needed so people can discuss the seemingly random things that seem to have come up here in a more suitable place. The old RFI thread and a number of others are/were similarly clogged and bogged down with a lot of irrelevant and irreverent chatter (and I take the blame myself for a lot of that too).

However I think with this new thread it is an opportunity to keep it leaner, cleaner and on topic to a much larger degree. I am sure there are plenty of other people reading this who haven't a clue at times what any of the posts here actually have to do with the Rendlesham Forest Incident. That probably inhibits them from joining in the conversation and perhaps offering a fresh perspective.

I am not running to the Mods or singling out any one individual. We all must collectively take the blame for drifting way off topic at times. I am just asking for people to apply some precision of thought before posting in a thread that is primarily about the Rendlesham Forest Incident.

What I mean specifically by that is to ask everyone first evaluate whether what you are posting has anything to do with the incident. If it does (in your own mind) then also consider whether others will understand your thought process. You might need to explain in a little more detail why and how you are relating it to the incident?

Jokey comments (of course!) and a little thread drift is fine. But let's try to exercise some self discipline here and not forget what this thread is about.

Is that fair comment?

Agreed. Far too much waffle going on, unrelated to the RFI. I am sure other threads can be created to accomodate what is not related to this case.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Cherenkov radiation won't cause hallucinations or psychosis.

If you can understand why "UFOs" often exhibit Cerenkov radiation youd understand the conditions present that lead to potential hallucinations, electrical failures etc. But its not from gamma rays that ufos produce Cherenkov radiation.

I didn't say that Cherenkov radiation would cause hallucinations or psychosis.

What I meant by internal and external effects, was that a group of observers, at whatever distance, may be able to perceive the energy/light produced by the radiation (though some may not of course), but if, for example, thinking of John Burroughs' milky patch in his eye, he had an "interaction within his vitreous humor" he would more likely not see the external display because he would be "seeing" the normal reaction to any blow/impact to the eye - flashing lights.