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economy 101 for dummies

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posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 08:55 PM
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originally posted by: notsure1
So Obama and the media and all the liberal minions will tell you that this BOOMING economy is Obamas doing.

They think everything positive is all Obama and everything negative is Trump.

They will show you graphs and charts and polls and say "see this is all Obama"

Well if you believe that you are a frikin idiot. Sry but its true.

The economy is BOOMING because of the tax cuts period. Any POTUS could have done it none of them did.

Remember when Bush gave out stimulus checks? That was so we would spend it and boost the economy .

It did not work because people were so broke they just used it to catch up on bills. We needed more .

Trumps taxcuts is a stimulus check every single week. Some of you say oh its just peanuts but those peanuts add up to billions of $$$$ back into our economy every week. It really is that simple and has nothing to do with past presidents.

Again any Potus could have done this, just let us have more of OUR MONEY. But no one did.

Bush gave it to the bankers Obama gave it to the insurance companies. Trump gave it to us.

TRUMP GAVE IT TO US.



Trump gave you a small tax cut for 3 years, he gave the very rich a huge tax cut forever. FACT

The economy expanded every year of Obama's Presidency and employment improved to better than historical averages under Obama. FACT

The stock market more than tripled in 8 years under Obama. FACT

Obama brought the deficit under control in last term. Trump is expanding the deficit at a record rate. FACT

Companies getting ahead of tariffs and higher energy prices are only reasons GDP growth has improved. Going forward we lose the one time effects of getting ahead of tariffs, the one time effect on stock prices due to tax cuts, the expiration of the middle class tax cuts and projected higher and higher deficits in the face of higher interest rates. Things only go down hill from here in my opinion and that realization will hit the markets as a whole before the elections.

Trump making enemies of the world and still refuses to bring our troops and spooks back home.




posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: olaru12

You seriously think the hatred for Obama has anything to do with skin color? How about his failed policies? Apologizing to Japan for the bombs that we dropped at the end of WWII? Pallets of cash dropped into Iran in the middle of the night? Fast & Furious? Quadrupling health insurance premiums?

Sorry, but most of us on the right tend to judge people based on their character and actions, not skin color like the media would like you to believe.



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 09:56 PM
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the economy is almost all debt, how is that a good thing?

how is %70+ of American's not having any savings good?

why do you guys just parrot whatever is on tv weather it's from the perceived left or right wing media like any of them have your best interest at hand?



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 09:58 PM
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a reply to: notsure1

So a GOP house and Senate did nothing?
Just trump eh?

You are in the wrong class.
You need civics 101.



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 10:01 PM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: notsure1

So a GOP house and Senate did nothing?
Just trump eh?

You are in the wrong class.
You need civics 101.


HMMM I dont remember saying that. Let me check...... Nope I didnt say it.

What I said was it had nothing to do with past presidents.



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 10:01 PM
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The simple fact is that Obama's economic policies were Keynesian based. He apparently didn't understand the nature of Keynesian economics.

Keynes states in his theory that the government has a inherent role to play in stabilizing the economy. He further states that when an economy is growing too fast, the most effective way to slow growth is through taxation. When the economy is growing too slowly, the most effective way to stimulate the economy is through government spending. All that is true, to a point.

Keynesian economics only works while taxation/spending is within a certain range. Outside of that range, Keynesian economics fails, for obvious reasons. Every economy changes; every economy has ups and downs. If every time the economy moves down, government spending increases, and every time the economy moves up, taxation increases, there will come a point where taxation is so great that individual contributions to the economy are negligent and government spending is the sole source of economic stimulus. That leads to a stagnant economy, because even the financial might of the US government pales in comparison to the economic might of 300+ million enterprising Americans.

Another aspect of Keynesian economics is that the spending effects are assumed to be beneficial to the country's economy where the spending takes place. Excessive regulation destroys this assumption, since larger companies have the financial means to move their operations to other countries. When this happens, the stimulus provided by government spending is diluted because the benefits are going to other economies.

The recession Bush created was a direct result of a semi-crash, colloquially referred to as a "bubble." Bubbles are a direct consequence of Keynesian theory being applied along the boundary of applicability. They result from too many individuals competing too tightly in an industry that cannot sustain them all. In the "dot com" bubble, Internet companies became too appealing for the average person to ignore; the low overhead, low investment, and potential high returns sounded too good to be true. It was. So many companies were started online that the market was stretched too thin to support them, and the resulting competition, combined with poor business practices (I remember getting a ton of free stuff back then just for visiting websites I had no intention of ordering from) resulted in most of these online businesses failing along a short time frame. That is the definition of a bubble burst.

The 2008 recession was the result of a similar bubble bursting, but this particular bubble was actually created by the use of Keynesian theory outside applicable boundaries. Government increased spending by proxy via guarantees and incentives to banks to loan money to people who were incapable of repaying the loans. The first hurdle these people encountered then resulted in home foreclosures. These home foreclosures then over-saturated the housing market and drove prices down. At the same time, the lenders, saddled with these bad debts, tried to move them out of their inventory through bundling, leading to many investors losing their investment as well. It didn't take long until an entire industry, housing, ground to a standstill. The bubble burst, and as so many people were affected by either the loss of a home and credit rating or suffering losses due to housing investments, the rest of the economy began to tank as well.

At that point, we had two options: use Keynesian theory and try to stimulate the economy through direct government spending (which was Obama's approach) or revert to classical economic theory and stimulate via lower taxation and regulation. Had we reverted to classical theory, the recovery would have been fairly swift, but continuing to depend solely on Keynesian theory did not allow the economy to grow. Instead, combined with the regulation overload, companies moved out of the US economy and took the benefits that were intended for the American economy with them.

I will give Obama this: he was trapped. Bush created the recession and Obama inherited it. There was going to be a short period of economic pain no matter what he did. He could have passed a tax cut and suffered through the short term to become an economic hero to the American public, but he chose to continue using Keynesian theory and supplement it with social programs (which the US could not afford) for political gain.

Trump came along after the economy had stabilized at much lower levels than it should have. As a businessman, Trump understood the problem and immediately went to work trying to promote the US as a business-friendly environment. He used the regulation cuts to entice businesses to open inside the US, and used promises of future benefits to try and lure others back home. As soon as he could get Congress to act, he implemented tax cuts to stimulate the economy... the most important cuts were indeed to business, but individuals got a tax cut as well. That gave the economy a dual boost: a weekly bonus for individuals to use and an enhanced ability for businesses to expand to meet that new demand. The result was that US businesses were able to do what they should have been able to do within two years of Obama's administration.

That's what happened. Partisan identity politics be damned. Obama dropped the ball and kept the US in a stagnant state for 8 years, when he could have reversed the trend in two. Trump made the hard decisions and took the political heat, turning the economy around. There is still much to be done, but we now have an expanding base with which to work from... because of Donald Trump and in spite of Barrack Obama.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 10:02 PM
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a reply to: notsure1

TRUMP GAVE IT TO US.

You may want to check into ethics 101 as well.



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 10:08 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Kensyian economics has been the policy of government since FDR. Trump is also a Kensyian which is why he thinks we can spend our way into a better economy.

What we really have is a culture issue. IMO there will be no real recovery the only recovery that will truly work is one where we get back to small community and sustainability based ideas where we take an interests in the success of our communities more so than we take an interest in the success of me and mine.

I would also like to point out that if we want an economy that's stable we need the subsidies to stop both corporate and personal welfare is causing the situation we have.

Banks need to be HEAVILY regulated as does Wall Street.


edit on 25-9-2018 by toysforadults because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 10:16 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

The very fact that Trump spearheaded a tax cut means he is not utilizing Keynesian economics. Keynes states the proper way to stimulate the economy is via government spending, not through tax cuts. Your statement seems to imply you are not familiar with the basics of the various economic theories.

You also seem to miss my points above. Keynesian theory is not good or bad... it is more efficient than classical theory in a certain range of variables. The problem is that it has been applied outside those boundaries and in conjunction with social policies that dilute its effectiveness. It has been used since FDR, on and off, but never so far outside its effective range.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 10:17 PM
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it's funny how many people actually believe concepts like "supply and demand" in today's economy. How many people believe in exchange rates between currencies....and how many people believe the stock market is actually based on "value"

Just STUNNING to me how many people believe these things are the "REAL" drivers of the economy!!

STUNNING!!!

(Stunning how WRONG they all are!!)



ETA - These things are ALL just ILLUSIONS!!!
edit on 9/25/2018 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 10:24 PM
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I will give Obama this: he was trapped. Bush created the recession and Obama inherited it.


Excellent post my man. The only thing j take issue with is this particular part. Look into Obama's role as a Senator and his actions in torpedoing any regulations or fail safes that were to be implemented against Fannie May and Freddie Mac that would have helped avoid the collapse of the housing industry.

His actions there were instrumental in the collapse that followed. In effect he was saddled with a problem that he played a big part in creating.

Just another layer to the scumbag onion that was Obama.



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 10:25 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

In response to your edit:

I would also like to point out that if we want an economy that's stable we need the subsidies to stop both corporate and personal welfare is causing the situation we have.

I will agree with you on corporate welfare. A business which cannot make a profit is doomed to fail, and all corporate welfare can do is slow the inevitable at the cost of much treasure that would be better spent elsewhere.

I will partially agree with you on private welfare... we are still in a recovery phase and are also dealing with a cultural shift toward dependence. Too fast a withdrawal will cause unnecessary pain, and some sort of social safety net is needed in any capitalistic society. In other words, we need to back off on social welfare, but not completely stop it.


Banks need to be HEAVILY regulated as does Wall Street.

Banks and Wall Street are the driving forces behind economic growth. While some regulation is needed, too much will cause the opposite of the desired effect.

When you want your car to go faster, do you stand on the brake? That is the equivalent of over-regulating the sources of capital.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 10:29 PM
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a reply to: Malcador

You bring up a good point. Obama was a Senator and therefore bears some responsibility for creating the conditions that led to the recession. However, I skipped over that because most here seem to not be very familiar with how economic responsibility is divided between President and Congress. Both have effects.

The bailouts, which Obama (along with almost every other Congressman) vehemently supported, were another issue that slowed the economic recovery.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 10:32 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk


it's funny how many people actually believe concepts like "supply and demand" in today's economy. How many people believe in exchange rates between currencies....and how many people believe the stock market is actually based on "value"

Normally, I agree with you; not this time. All of those things are indeed real and are indeed the driving forces behind the economy.

Now, if you want to argue that these driving forces have been improperly interfered with, then I will again take your side. That is the essence of the conversation between myself and Malcador.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 10:56 PM
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a reply to: olaru12

Well, lets see, the last time that happened who was in charge of the house and senate? Dems. Who ran the banking and finance committees? The dems. What crashed? Banking and finance? Weird.

Now what is the conventional wisdom? Dems will win in november. What else? An economic downturn is just about 18 months away. Weird. So lets do a little experiment. You vote republican in november and leave the reps in power for the downturn. Then you can hang it on their necks. My bet is that there is no economic downturn so long as republicans keep the house and senate.



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults


the economy is almost all debt, how is that a good thing?

What on earth are you talking about?



how is %70+ of American's not having any savings good?

Who said it was?



why do you guys just parrot whatever is on tv weather it's from the perceived left or right wing media like any of them have your best interest at hand?

Why does the wind blow?



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 11:48 PM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

"Why does the wind blow?"

Cant say, but this song will answer some questions like it:



I suppose all answers are blowing in the wind:
www.youtube.com...




edit on 25-9-2018 by randomtangentsrme because: My youngest fell asleep on me.



posted on Sep, 25 2018 @ 11:54 PM
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a reply to: notsure1

Didnt the tax cuts mainly affect corporations and wealthy individuals?



posted on Sep, 26 2018 @ 01:18 AM
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"Nothing is certain but death and taxes"

Psh

We can't get rid of death, but we can damn sure get rid of the tax.

Tax on top of tax on top of tax.

If only someone would have seen this coming and written a law or something.

Maybe called it the constitution, or something.



posted on Sep, 26 2018 @ 01:45 AM
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actually it always begins like this. " economy is the allocation of scarce resources"




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