Why don't you believe these women?

a reply to: Khaleesi

Yes. The problem is we need an investigation, and the "president" and his "congress" refuse to authorize one.
How are we supposed to find evidence and verify the allegations without an investigation?

And yet everybody keeps saying there is "NO evidence". No corroboration?

?

What's wrong with this picture?


Anyway, dear FyreByrd, I presume you knew the audience you would have when you put this thread up.
So you have it.

Hail! Hail! The gangs all here.

I don't know if she's telling the truth or not. Maybe she believes it, I don't know. What I do know is that I need more than a 35 year old accusation with no corroborating witnesses or evidence. As in any case, the burden of proof lies with the accuser, not the accused, and for me, that standard has not been met. The fact that Feinstein sat on these allegations for several weeks in order to politicize it certainly doesn't help establish credibility in my eyes, either.

a reply to: angeldoll

Yes thats why feisnstein shouldnt have sat on the allegations, and should have gave them to the fbi when they were doing an investigation.

Funny you blame trump, but have no problem with what the dems did.

And of course, we all just have to ignore this is obviously being used by feinstein as a delay tactic.

Meanwhile ford is doing everything she can to even avoid testifying in front of the senate.

If she wants to get to the bottom of this, why not come out immediately and testify?

Meanwhile, these noble dems arre refusing to call for an fbi investigation into ellisons accuser.

Yet starngely, I havent heard you condemn this?

a reply to: vor78

I do know is that I need more than a 35 year old accusation with no corroborating witnesses or evidence

Then I take it you believe there should be an investigation into this? So trump and congress are dropping the ball by not pursuing an investigation?

I think you people should either join in to support an investigation, or stop whining about there being no evidence or corroboration.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Khaleesi

Yes. The problem is we need an investigation, and the "president" and his "congress" refuse to authorize one.
How are we supposed to find evidence and verify the allegations without an investigation?

And yet everybody keeps saying there is "NO evidence". No corroboration?

?

What's wrong with this picture?


Anyway, dear FyreByrd, I presume you knew the audience you would have when you put this thread up.
So you have it.

Hail! Hail! The gangs all here.

You've been lied to. If they really wanted an investigation, they'd file charges in Maryland where this happened. Congress has no authority to order an FBI investigation, dunno where you got that idea. They've been trying to do their own investigation, but the Democrats refused to participate. The President could order the FBI to investigate, but they wouldn't because they have no jurisdiction in this case. The only reason they investigated the Anita Hill accusation was because she was a federal employee. Ford is not. The people suggesting the FBI should investigate know this. They're just counting on you not knowing it. They're purposefully misleading you with that suggestion.

Just curious, how do you feel about being purposefully misled like that?

a reply to: Grambler

If she wants to get to the bottom of this, why not come out immediately and testify?

If you were a woman and this had happened to you, you would know why.

And go sit in front of all those old men who don't give a rat's ass about whether it happened or not?
Do you not understand that they DON"T CARE?

I can't believe she is going to do that to herself. God Bless Her for trying.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: vor78

I do know is that I need more than a 35 year old accusation with no corroborating witnesses or evidence

Then I take it you believe there should be an investigation into this? So trump and congress are dropping the ball by not pursuing an investigation?

I think you people should either join in to support an investigation, or stop whining about there being no evidence or corroboration.

Yep, let's have an investigation. Let them file charges. There's no statute of limitations on these crimes in Maryland. Why haven't charges been filed?

originally posted by: TinySickTears

theyre not reported cause they get smeared for it.
character assault.
look at the posts here.

Actually, 70% of victims who do not report the incident(s) to law enforcement do so because:

- 20% Feared retaliation

- 13% Believed the police would not do anything to help

- 13% Believed it was a personal matter

- 8% Reported to non-law-enforcement official

- 8% Believed it was not important enough to report

- 7% Did not want to get the perpetrator in trouble

- 2% Believed the police could not do anything to help

- 30% Other or multiple reasons

Wiki

Show me anywhere on that list where the majority of women don't report a rape "cause they get smeared for it." You are perpetuating a crap argument that is not true.

What is true, though, is that willingness to report rapes is on the rise, so your claim is, once again, shown to be garbage.

But the inverse of your argument is often more true--even if a man is found not guilty, just an accusation or being a defendant at trial (but getting acquitted) can have detrimental, lasting effects on the man's life, too, both publicly and privately.

Don't equate me pointing out your claim as anything other than just calling out the false nature of it--I wish every incident was reported in a timely manner and done so while physical evidence was still detectable so that the perpetrators would get convicted and go to jail. But until that happens, we're stuck with the current reality, which is one that does not mirror your claim of motive behind not reporting rapes.

The sad thing is that, also on that page, it cites federal stats, and only 38.4% of rapes are reported, 14.8% of those reported lead to an arrest, 19.3% of those arrests are referred for prosecution, 63.6% of those prosecutions lead to a felony conviction, and 85.6% of those convictions lead to jail time. That culminates in just 0.6% of alleged rapists end up seeing jail time. In my experience, the ratio of accusations to actual rapes is highly lopsided toward the false allegation side of the spectrum, but I know that it is not only 0.6% of the allegations that deserve jail time. But if victims aren't more willing to step up and report this stuff, and to do so in a timely manner, then this is what we end up with. (that's not victim shaming, that's just reality)

These numbers don't reflect the reality of actual rapes, just that it's very hard to prove a rape if admissible evidence, other than he-said-she-said claims, doesn't exist at the time of reporting or trial.

fact is we dont know for sure with this whole Kavnaugh(sp) thing.
none of us do.
but lots of people claim to know she is lying. calling her a whore. but she was drunk and left that part out.
its all the smear

Well, some people who are claimed to know about it are calling her out as lying, too--there is literally, from what I've read following this issue, one person claiming that she is telling the truth: Her. Sometimes you have to run with the information that you have. Regardless of personal beliefs, though, she has no criminal case legally.

and i remember my ex wife telling me when she went to college open house day or whatever it is to check it out they had lit up walk ways and lit up phones all over the place and women were told specific instructions on what to do if attacked.

That's good on the school--you can never be too careful, for women AND men's safety on campus.

Look, I hold this issue near and dear to my heart--my mom was sexually abused by her step-dad when she was a child, and it really screwed her up (understandably) and is reflected in the fact that she is on her fourth marriage, and all of these men (other than my dad) have all been "fixer-uppers." Well, even him, probably, in his 20s, but nothing major. I have friends who have been assaulted sexually or raped, and one friend who has had literally every female member of his family either sexually assaulted or raped during their lifetimes.

It's not easy to discuss without getting emotional, and I have literally zero respect for a rapist, but we can't just make up claims in this discussion, as it serves no good purpose on either side.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

No means no. Do not pass go unless you've been given the ok.. And if she changes her mind and says stop then the guy needs to stop.

We definitely agree on that generality--the question is, is there always a "no" stated during incidents alleged to be rapes or sexual assaults?

That's the often far-too-difficult point to prove in rape cases, unfortunately.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: vor78

I do know is that I need more than a 35 year old accusation with no corroborating witnesses or evidence

Then I take it you believe there should be an investigation into this? So trump and congress are dropping the ball by not pursuing an investigation?

I think you people should either join in to support an investigation, or stop whining about there being no evidence or corroboration.

If the issue is within the FBI's jurisdiction and they choose to investigate, sure, go ahead. As far as I'm aware, they've indicated that they're not interested. I think Montgomery County has indicated that they'll do an investigation if she comes in and files a police report. I do not agree with the idea that the president or Congress should lean on law enforcement to start (or end) investigations into presidential appointees/nominees.

Regardless, I think you're putting the cart before the horse. She needs to come in and testify under oath before Congress first and make her case for an investigation to occur. Then we'll see.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Grambler

If she wants to get to the bottom of this, why not come out immediately and testify?

If you were a woman and this had happened to you, you would know why.

And go sit in front of all those old men who don't give a rat's ass about whether it happened or not?
Do you not understand that they DON"T CARE?

I can't believe she is going to do that to herself. God Bless Her for trying.

So you ignore feinstein and the dems setting on this for political purposes.

And you ignore their shielding ellison from his accuser and not calling for an fbi investigation.

Glad to see you are for the victims though (when they politically align with you).

As to your point.

Ford doesnt get to have it both ways.

She doesnt get to say she doesnt want to discuss this in front of old men, and the argue that these men are not allowed to have a female counsel question her.

Your projection is that they dont care of it happened or not is an accusation you again make with no proof (though who needs that right, your accusation should be enough, thats the standard)

They care as much as feinsetin, who sat on the allegation for six weeks when she could have handed it to the fbi while they were investigating.

And if you were accused, and your accuser wanted you to testify before they did, and offered no evidence, and refused to allow you or your counsel to question them, you would know why what she is demanding is ridiculous.

a reply to: angeldoll

False that's a lie. The FBI already said they will not do an investigation and the president and Senate have both said Ford should be given a chance to speak.

a reply to: angeldoll

An investigation into what? What would they investigate? Ford's own friend that she says was there says this never happened.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: angeldoll

False that's a lie. The FBI already said they will not do an investigation and the president and Senate have both said Ford should be given a chance to speak.

angeldoll has been deliberately deceived into thinking these women are being denied an investigation. The fact is they could both get one if they filed charges. Their lawyers know this, yet they're not filing charges and dishonestly whining about the FBI when they know for a fact the FBI can't investigate it.

The question is whether angel will absorb this information and question why their lawyers, backed up by the media and the Democrats, are deliberately misleading the public. Or will these facts just be dismissed because they don't benefit the Democrat party?

a reply to: face23785

I would say willfully deceived. You have to want to be lied to.

I take issue with the claim that 63% of rapes are not reported. That’s an oddly specific number for an unquantifiable statistic. If we knew how many rapes were not reported, then they would have to have been reported at some time or another. That’s one.

Two, you can blame sociopaths for people not believing that someone was raped. I’m not talking about conservative talk show hosts either. I’m talking about the “rape victims” who lie about getting raped for personal gain, whether it be money or fame. You can blame these women:

www.google.com...

www.google.com...

www.google.com... decade/news-story/f22d75116c60e3843131ae07baee01b3

a reply to: scolai

Kavanaugh second accuser literally called people asking if they knew who the one who did it because she didn't Know for sure, and lawyers have since helped her remember it was the guy everyone has said was never there.

His first accuser only remembered after psychotherapy triggered a "repressed" memory she knew nothing about and none of the people she remembers now being there remember it, including one of her best friends that days it never happened and she never met Kavanaugh.

And people are attacked for questioning that.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: scolai

Kavanaugh second accuser literally called people asking if they knew who the one who did it because she didn't Know for sure, and lawyers have since helped her remember it was the guy everyone has said was never there.

His first accuser only remembered after psychotherapy triggered a "repressed" memory she knew nothing about and none of the people she remembers now being there remember it, including one of her best friends that days it never happened and she never met Kavanaugh.

And people are attacked for questioning that.

I'll also note that repressed memories which are recovered in this manner are even more unreliable than standard memories.

I am related to two separate women that detailed false accusations of sexual assault.

One of them went to a therapist and got caught up in the "suppressed memory" crazy that was going on in the 90's. She suddenly recalled that her step father had molested her at an early age. She completely broke off all contact with her parents and other family because no one else would support her claim. There was no evidence what so ever of this and the other kids in the family completely denied any of the stories she put forth. Now were they all wrong or lying? Or was it far more likely that this therapist (who specialized in repressed memories) had created something that was not there?
It was a terrible situation because she had cancer (why she was seeing the therapist for depression in the first place) and ended up passing away thinking that this abuse happened when in all likelihood its was bull.

The other women was also going through depression. She got a wild hair one night after a meeting at her daughters school. There were frantic phone calls to other family members that she had been sexually assaulted in the parking lot of the school by a man in dark clothes. Well after refusing all advise to call the police and hours of talking to her the truth came out that not only was there no assault, there was not even a man in the parking lot when she left. She had a panic attack and made the rest up out of thin air.

So yeah color me skeptical when I hear a women make allegations especially when they are timed to derail a political appointment.
There appears to be no lengths that women will not go to ensure the legal ability to end their pregnancy. Don't you feel so liberated?

a reply to: face23785

Which is probably why her story keeps changing.