Are UFOlogists Useful Idiots?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

My friend, don’t you know existence is all about using and being used

Any married man should know that!

The reason I went through all the history is that people don't tend to know history. They see the ears on the elephant, but not the elephant. I showed the elephant to make a simple point.

How do you show someone something they can't see. Don't you first have to obviate their blinders

a reply to: Willtell

I liked Douglass Adams "Self-Feeder".
This creature was a cannibal, but only of itself, and it feasted
upon itself from different time epochs of it's life.. so when it
was young, it consumed it's own organs/flesh from when
it was old and it didn't matter so much then. Of course it
had to stop self-feeding at a certain point to avoid murdering
itself, but that caused it to starve to death.

As for marriage?
I have a splendid marriage, after two failed attempts..
we are two givers.. who try to out-give each other.
It's beautiful.

Kev

I liked Douglass Adams "Self-Feeder". This creature was a cannibal, but only of itself, and it feasted upon itself from different time epochs of it's life.. so when it was young, it consumed it's own organs/flesh from when it was old and it didn't matter so much then. Of course it had to stop self-feeding at a certain point to avoid murdering itself, but that caused it to starve to death.

It starved to death because it never learned how to use others

originally posted by: Willtell

The reason I went through all the history is that people don't tend to know history. They see the ears on the elephant, but not the elephant. I showed the elephant to make a simple point.

How do you show someone something they can't see. Don't you first have to obviate their blinders

You can't obviate blinders.

People are mostly what they are by the age of 16 or so, and that's who they
are going to be. Real change is very uncommon and usually takes a tragedy
or crisis of some strength.

The people who 'agree with you' are those wired to believe you.. because you
agree with their entrenched biases.

Fortunately some people are biased towards being rational.. but only some people.

I knew this of course.. but i notice that I seem to enjoy oratory and a bit of
posturing here and there, whether there is any point to it or not.

Kev

originally posted by: Willtell

I liked Douglass Adams "Self-Feeder". This creature was a cannibal, but only of itself, and it feasted upon itself from different time epochs of it's life.. so when it was young, it consumed it's own organs/flesh from when it was old and it didn't matter so much then. Of course it had to stop self-feeding at a certain point to avoid murdering itself, but that caused it to starve to death.

It starved to death because it never learned how to use others

I won't inquire about your personal life.. but it would seem you have
had some relationship bumps in the road of late!

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The official approach is still "believe in UFO = mentally ill". That's the real way many in the field of UFOlogy are useful because they keep gathering behind the banner of whoever makes the most outrageous claims.
Meanwhile it is quite simple what we do know is just it's real, it's ancient, it seems intelligent. But how many books can you sell when you don't equate a few lights and woo events with ET? Once you want to make a living you have to play to the audience.
In that way the audience controls itself, the want-to-believe-bias is in the way of admitting it, in the entirely broad spectrum we talk about as the phenomenon, can't possibly be not from this world.

I can excuse religion because we just started using the written word and it seemed all very magical. I can excuse shamans because we just found these fun plants and started travelling to the dark pits of our mind. Ufology is the next step of research-evolution but somehow seems to take us further away from the truth. Scientology imho is closer except for the part where these consciousness entities came from another planet and only want to do us harm.
But how much of that approach is just my bias?

And I really can't see how any of those is useful to anybody except those very few making money from lying? To military maybe if we think newly developed planes are UFO. But besides that? It's against the evolution of information because the Claims are getting wilder and wilder. And it doesn't make the believers easier to control, just easier to ridicule.

Nice to see you're back.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

some are usefull , some are idiots . overlap varies

I would say many UFOlogists are useful idiots according to OPs definition.
But that doesnt mean they should stop doing what they are doing.
Their findings may be our only way of making the future better than what the past has been.

a reply to: Peeple

I think that one of the most useful ways that we are being idiots
is if we can be used as an example of successful "mind control"
by the parties trying to trade up with the government---which
is a fool's errand.

You know... "here boy! here boy! say the word Phenomenon!
Bark! Fetch! we will promise you a treat.. but won't give you
one.. we don't actually have anything..".

Whomever controls the dialogue writes history, even present
day history.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Partially due to the amount of strategic and religious importance involved about the U.F.O. enigma, earth's federal governments tend to be tight-lipped about the subject; thus depriving most of the civilian populations enough substantive evidence about the phenomena --- IMHO.

Even though the civilian populations seem to have gathered enough corroborative evidence on the U.F.O. enigma...with the lack of substantive evidence, corroborative evidence is no evidence.

UFOs are just the bait for something bordering on mystical religious surrealism; patterned so the primitive 5 senses can understand it.

originally posted by: olaru12
UFOs are just the bait for something bordering on mystical religious surrealism; patterned so the primitive 5 senses can understand it.

Are you saying that we are useful idiots for that something?

how about for humans? are UFOlogists playing into the hand
of humans trying to control society?

That was the question.

a reply to: Erno86

but do you view that UFO researchers are being mentally
manipulated? If so, how?

That was basically the question
asked by my post.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

originally posted by: Willtell

I liked Douglass Adams "Self-Feeder". This creature was a cannibal, but only of itself, and it feasted upon itself from different time epochs of it's life.. so when it was young, it consumed it's own organs/flesh from when it was old and it didn't matter so much then. Of course it had to stop self-feeding at a certain point to avoid murdering itself, but that caused it to starve to death.

It starved to death because it never learned how to use others

I won't inquire about your personal life.. but it would seem you have
had some relationship bumps in the road of late!

Not really, the idea that life is a series of serving and being served or using someone and being used doesn’t have to be thought of as abuse or exploitation.
It’s just an empirical reality
Even the rich are servants to something. They aren’t isolated.
If you go around in the woods and live by yourself you still are dependent and things, in turn, are dependent on you. Maybe your dog or the mosquitoes that bite you.

btw the way the wife remark wasn't meant to be personal, its a general proposition about sharing

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Erno86

but do you view that UFO researchers are being mentally
manipulated? If so, how?

That was basically the question
asked by my post.

As for myself...I don't think I'm being "mentally manipulated" by the U.S. Federal government or anybody else --- that includes the otherworlders ---- At the present time...I'm just a rolling cannon on a cannon deck.

a reply to: Willtell

It is true that everything is food for something else.
It is indeed the circle of life.
That same principle applies psychologically and sociologically as well.

a reply to: Willtell

It is true that everything is food for something else.
It is indeed the circle of life.
That same principle applies psychologically and sociologically as well.

Yes.

When one or a few groups absolutely control the language that
honest researchers are using to explain what they are doing,
then those honest researchers are more useful idiots than
anything.

This same gimmick has been done since the beginning of
civilization.

Some good ones:

"god"
"family values"
"patriot"
"moral"

those 4 words for example have no usable semantic
content. They are completely politicized.. and if you
don't agree with the incessantly rammed down your
throat definition by the manipulators.. the very
act of using "their word" positions yourself as a wrong
person who is going against the 'common wisdom'.

And if by some miracle you could redefine what one
of those words mean.. then a new word would be chosen
and the previous word would be vilified.

Meme wars. And if the 'enemy' cons you into using their
terms, you lose.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear
...

1. Originally people used their basic senses and what they saw
is what they believed.

2. The human imagination blossomed and people started to believe
things which have no basis in fact.

3. Shaman arose[...]

My version of cosmology is a bit different.

Our solar system was part of a smaller galaxy swallowed by the Milky Way. This kind of explains a few of the extinction events as the galaxies normalized into what is observed as the Milky Way.

First point, very much agree with. Second point I would posit goes hand-in-hand with point 3. There is no straight path here! With no cell phones, no TV, no radios, not even electricity, mankind looked up at the stars and wondered, "why are they moving"? Certain groups of stars looked like familiar animals around them. Stories were made for the others. Remarkably, 12 groups of stars are recognized around the world. I would put money on that is where "story telling" began. Story passes to legend which passes to myth when all cultural beliefs are placed in the memory of a single individual (i.e., shaman). Pieces of truth, crumbs of ideas of science and math lay hidden in "story". From those myths it became efficient to codify into law and/or religion. Especially when written language became available.

If your shaman told you that that group of stars was known as the Hunter who are you to say otherwise? If a different shaman tells you that the same group of stars is the god Osiris then it would be, "All hail Osiris!" Amon Ra. For others, it was some other deity or mythical figure.

Empires come and go. The stars do not. One god is replaced with another. Autumn harvest still happens at the same time so who cares what we call the god? Winter solstice happens at the same time so who cares if it is shaman covered in soot sliding down the yurt fire vent to share his mushrooms in exchange for food or St. Nick in Coca-Cola red and white exchanging you food tickets for sickly sweet drinks during the same time period? Christmas is still Christmas by Jove! Or Mithra, for baby Jesus' sake!!

None of this happens if we are not the aliens from another galaxy looking up at the night sky and using our imaginations and drawing on the cave walls.

I totally agree it has been co-opted by MIC and global corporate alike with their own set of "stories" that typically sound like theosophy if not out and out taken from it but relying upon it heavily. Look at the Bank of America mural. A pyramid. A "Mason boy". We are the lovely dancer, caged, and dancing to the strings being pulled by an unseen puller. Adam Smith's "invisible hand" which, if I am not mystaken, is a antient and accepted Freemason. Where do those myths come from? The morality plays enacted by Lodge come from?

It all sounds familiar because it is all familiar!

Useful idiots? Yes, I am!

TEOT, keeping the myth of the Big Black Triangle alive and kicking! [useful idiot I am...]

First step in recovery...