should religion and education be kept seperate?

Religion should not be taught in schools, Faith should be taught. Why do people always talk about religion when they should be talking about Faith. Also I worked in the middle of southern Baptist country. They never bothered me. I always wandered if these people who keep complaining about southern Baptists are those loud mouth anti-theist types who love to get in everyone's face about their beliefs and then cry bigotry when the Christian gets right back in their face. As for religion in schools, I grew up an athiest in the mid west with the typical so called Christian bias in the schools. I never felt that there was any inpingement on my freedom or rights. Today it seems that some one will go into a towering rage just because a teacher says the word Jesus in a class room. If you are to separate religion from schools than don't allow the teaching of such things a transcendental meditation and yoga (which are being taught in California).

jagdflieger you just proved the main problem in America.

When it comes to Christianity, it must be seperate from the State, and even the people if the Democrats had their way.

But when it comes to trancendentalism, Zen, Muslim, anything non-Christian, and generally though not as much...non-Judaic.

Well come right in!

Stick your Koran *looks around, dumps the constitution on the floor and brings over the pedestal* here...

Here, have your Zen, it counts towards 2 credits of PE.

Hey is that a Cross?

I'm sorry, we can't allow such religious items here, this is a school...you're going to have to give that to me.

"When can I have it back?"

Never, it is going into the memory hole

Religion and education should be kepted seperate. If it is not children may not be able to learn the things the should. Things such as evolution, and such.

Not true jetsetter, I refrained from posting the obvious truth because it was just too extensive and I didn't have the effort to do so.

But now you say "they won't learn what they need to" now I shall intervene.

The kids today because religion is so omitted from teaching aren't learning much necissary information on History.

They don't learn about the Knights Templar, or anything about most of Catholicism.

They don't learn the true causes of the Protestant revolution, nor do they learn anything about the coming of the Vernacular bible.

You ever wonder why people are so bored with history?

Because they don't learn the ties that bind history together.

What are those ties? It is 100% religion. History, is 95% religion.

I ask often high schoolers (whenever I can), why do they find History boring? It's because all it is is Dates....that's all they get from it.

This year this happend, this year that happend.

And every so often you'll get a "This happend because of this..."

But only when it's not because of religion.

Even the Crusades leaves out religion for the most part, and they breeze right by them. Focusing more on the events in the Crusades, and not why they happend.

When I start talking with them a bit more about history, and why a lot of things happen, they suddenly are "inspired" I love changing them that way.

Teaching religion is never a "science" issue so never worry about evolution or not.

Besides who are YOU to say evolution is true? How do we really know God did not just make it to look "old" not that I agree with it but still...

Religion is History and MUST be taught...its omission from the History class is why history is so "boring".

Who wants to remember dates?

If you know why something happend, you'll more or less remember the date regardless.

I should know, I am a walking historical library and I am not even a history major...

"The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."


"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

"It is between fifty and sixty years since I read the Apocalypse, and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy, nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.... what has no meaning admits no explanation"

"[Creeds] have been the bane and ruin of the Christian church, its own fatal invention, which, through so many ages, made of Christendom a slaughterhouse, and at this day divides it into castes of inextinguishable hatred to one another."


"Every Christian sect gives a great handle to Atheism by their general dogma that, without a revelation, there would not be sufficient proof of the being of god."

"I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshiped by many who think themselves Christians."


Thomas Jefferson was a firm believer in God but a strong opposer of Christianity. Get it right.

Children should learn about the different religions but the religion should not control what they learn. Religion is part of history, and people should learn about it.

I agree...and that was my point earlier.
Our children should be taught the different religion's of the world.
Its a pity most of the west now little about the rest of the world. We seem to beleive that our advanced technology compensates.
Deep

The problem with that is that there were always be an emphasis upon what the instructor believes (a good example being presented in this thread).

No Illmatic get you get it right.

He was neither for nor against, he spoke commonsense.

Some day the people who believe God is a moldy pile of Cheese born from an apricot, will think the believers of Jesus to be fools...but he still respected Christianity and supported Religious schools.

Yes jetsetter, religion should NOT control what you learn.

But the Democrats of this country have determined that Religion should not be taught at all.

You have to learn about the different religions, because religion is a such a big part of history and life today.

[Edited on 5-7-2003 by jetsetter]

I was one whose parents wasted money on a catholic school education- I am glad they did, even though I reject catholicism now.

When I went to public high school, there was no teaching of religion or doctrine and no one asked what religion anybody was. Ofcourse this was in 1892 , before any mention of God was disallowed and litigated to death.

I don't think any public school should teach a religous doctrine to students. This is the parents job and duty.
On the other hand, I do not think students should be stifled or prohibited from freely worshiping in their respective way or manner. It is a public place right? If a group wants to rally around a flagpole and talk about Jesus-so what?! The kinds of outrage against students who want these benign activities amaze me.

Originally posted by Tyriffic
I do not think students should be stifled or prohibited from freely worshiping in their respective way or manner. It is a public place right? If a group wants to rally around a flagpole and talk about Jesus-so what?! The kinds of outrage against students who want these benign activities amaze me.

Here in the middle of Oklahoma, circling the flagpole and praying, talking about Jesus, even preaching to those who don't want to hear it is widely accepted. In my school (yes, public, if you haven't guessed it yet), this is how things go, anyway. The faculty encourage praying for "America and its troops" during classes or in the middle of the hall between classes - however, if I'm "caught" meditating during our lunch break, I'd be lucky if I wasn't suspended for "satan worship" (if it makes any difference, I'm 50% Taoist, 50% Buddhist, 100% Jediist - meditation is kinda a religious thing with me).

I will always stick with NO - religion should not be taught in school - however, one should not be accepted and others discriminated against.

By the way, this is my last post for a week. I'll be in Cozumel, Mexico until Saturday of next week, so I'll make a few late replies to this topic when I get back.

Have phun, everyone!

What are you talking about LOBO?

For the sake of the future of our nation, you need to learn the difference between matters such as these.

Teaching religion in school and preaching religion are two different things.

You can live where ever you are now, and experience the majority of christians weight on you, or you can move somewhere like LA where they'll probably kill you because you are being a "retard" because places like that are so devoid of religion, they wouldn't have a clue about you.

Religion should be taught in schools.

As a historical way.

Not in a "this is how things happen" way but a "This is why people did what they did."

Learn to distinguish between people stepping out of bounds and not letting you have freedom of religion, and people teaching religion to better educate people that they have certain obligations.

And that their ancestors had obligations based on their religious beliefs and such...

Posted by Illmatic67:

[Thomas Jefferson

"It is between fifty and sixty years since I read the Apocalypse, and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy, nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.... what has no meaning admits no explanation"]

Jefferson being an Illuminist, for sure knew that the "Apocalypse" of the Bible actually DID mean something, not taken on face value. If you look at The Book of Revelations as being literal, then it should seem like the ravings of a maniac.


ONE

[Edited on 5-7-2003 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by LOBO

Originally posted by Tyriffic
I do not think students should be stifled or prohibited from freely worshiping in their respective way or manner. It is a public place right? If a group wants to rally around a flagpole and talk about Jesus-so what?! The kinds of outrage against students who want these benign activities amaze me.

Here in the middle of Oklahoma, circling the flagpole and praying, talking about Jesus, even preaching to those who don't want to hear it is widely accepted. In my school (yes, public, if you haven't guessed it yet), this is how things go, anyway. The faculty encourage praying for "America and its troops" during classes or in the middle of the hall between classes - however, if I'm "caught" meditating during our lunch break, I'd be lucky if I wasn't suspended for "satan worship" (if it makes any difference, I'm 50% Taoist, 50% Buddhist, 100% Jediist

- meditation is kinda a religious thing with me).

I will always stick with NO - religion should not be taught in school - however, one should not be accepted and others discriminated against.

By the way, this is my last post for a week. I'll be in Cozumel, Mexico until Saturday of next week, so I'll make a few late replies to this topic when I get back.

Have phun, everyone!

Well, about the flagpole- don't listen-Iwould ignore you meditating also.
As for the scene you describe in your school hallways--that sounds a little wack to me-I'm surprised no one has sued the school yet?? If some one is infinging on my right to privacy or passage to and from a place, that is harrassment.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
"The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."


"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

"It is between fifty and sixty years since I read the Apocalypse, and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy, nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.... what has no meaning admits no explanation"

"[Creeds] have been the bane and ruin of the Christian church, its own fatal invention, which, through so many ages, made of Christendom a slaughterhouse, and at this day divides it into castes of inextinguishable hatred to one another."


"Every Christian sect gives a great handle to Atheism by their general dogma that, without a revelation, there would not be sufficient proof of the being of god."

"I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshiped by many who think themselves Christians."


Thomas Jefferson was a firm believer in God but a strong opposer of Christianity. Get it right.

The swords come swiftly for the Christian head.
How can a man be a firm believer in God as Tom Jefferson was and be opposed to Chrisianity??? A ludicrous proposition.

Hate is a powerful emotion.

I suppose we will know one day what is what.

[Edited on 5-7-2003 by Tyriffic]

Robert Burns that is an excellent point about history, one I can fully appreciate. People and civilisations have always been driven by their beliefs and understanding how that has impacted on our development as a race is an important thing to learn

A tough one and it really does depend upon what one means by "religion" or, for that matter, by "education".
However, religion - and for the most part, Christianity - is absolutely central to Western Art, history and culture: not to mention the history of philosophy -even at the relatively trivial level of knowing what a "good Samaritan" is, or why we celebrate Easter and Christmas, or familiar quotations, or even Christmas carols.
I really don't see how one could be "educated' in the West without a relatively detailed knowledge of Christianity.
That is, however, "about" religion, rather than "religion" per se: a very different issue.

religious education is compulsory in all state schools but there has been growing latitude over the interpretation of this as the country has accepted increasing numbers of non-European immigrants.
Consequently, it all rather depends upon where you live: in Estragon-Land where just about everyone has been a pink Englishman/-woman for hundreds of years, schools teach the C of E and the Bible (New Testament usually): in the inner cities, politics, pc, and - presumably- common sense, dictate that RE "Religious Education" is a "multicultural" sort of thing.

And, as to whether it does any harm or not: who can say? It all depends. mini-Estragon had the Bible hammered into him from primary school onwards and at Sunday school (as it was called) as well, when he was micro-Estragon. Can't say I feel terribly abused.
On the other hand, I am convinced that any real understanding of western art, literature and music would have been quite impossible without that detailed knowledge "about" Christianity, regardless of whether I became a Christian, an atheist or a Patagonian frog-worshipper.
Would that I had a fiver for every time I've had to stop a lesson on a great work of English Literature: from Beowulf to Beckett, to explain the most elementary details of Christianity so that benighted students could vaguely understand what they were reading.
And it's the same whether you're discussing the great masters of the Renaissance or music from Bach to Brahms.