Brexit is a Mess, how do we Fix it.

a reply to: andy06shake
Like 'soar alba' crap which Solo posts lol
Too chicken # to leave the UK never mind the EU

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Plenty of English people would like to leave London town and the crap it contains to there own devices.

There is what supposedly unites the UK right there.

At least we had a modicum of choice in the matter, not so for just about every poor English soul that resides outwith the stain on the nation that is the city of London.

Just a thought.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

its a stupid idea (in my opinion).
actually it was only over half of those who voted.
those who didn't vote, we can assume that they're happy with whatever the result is from those that do vote (or they would have voted) - but that means they'd be happy with either result.
yes I'm sure if we ran the same poll again, we'd get a much higher turnout, but the result would be reasonably similar. about 50/50 - ish. give or take a few percentage points, but in my opinion not conclusive. Personally I would have said that a majority answer is only binding if greater than 75%, anything from 50-75 needs the decision made by parliament.
but then I think the whole idea to suggest that we leave - is a stupid idea. and putting it to the people to vote on, was an even stupider idea. We have elections to find the people that we feel will represent our views in parliament - big decisions that affect the entire country (and this is one of the biggest we've ever had), should be debated in parliament, and decided on by those that we've entrusted the position to make decisions on our behalf. That's what they're paid to do - they have the time to look at the bigger picture, see all the evidence, and make an informed decision. Something which the vast majority of those being asked to vote on the idea didn't have. We did have information, but we have no way of reliably verifying if it was true, and most of it was predictions, and finger in the air guessing about what might happen if we leave.
The whole thing was a complete disaster, became apparent when we realised that Cameron clearly didn't expect the leave vote to win, and he and his govt had zero plans to deal with a leave vote.
TM comes in, and the only way she can see to keep herself in the top job is to be strong, and remain certain that 'we voted to leave, so we're leaving'
personally I see no shame in someone admitting that they were wrong. even easier if it was your predecessor who was wrong. TM: "David Cameron was an idiot - he shouldn't have called a referendum. we'll look at the result, discuss it in parliament, and make a decision" - after a few weeks, she can then say something along the lines of it being in the best interests in the long term future of our country not to leave the EU.

as I said. The idea to leave is stupid. The decision to let the people vote on it - was stupid. To follow through and actually go ahead and start the process of leaving - without a clue as to how that's going to happen - stupid. Trying to manage to not have a hard border in Ireland - stupid. etc.

as someone else said - before we were in, with loads of opt outs. Now we're attempting to be out, with loads of opt ins.

neither position is ideal, but I'd have prefered to remain in the EU, and try to sort out some of the issues with corruption (Greek farmers, and subsidies), none accountability - unelected representatives etc, by being in the EU.

a reply to: andy06shake
The London financial sector pays the bills, makes Scottish oil seem like a kids dinner money.
London is a #hole I avoid but the revenue it generates cannot be denied, even after taking corporate fraud into account.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Kenya lecturing the UK?

www.kenyans.co.ke...

And you agree with him?

Do you advocate 'destroying London'?
You know, London, the entity that underpins the capitalist state that you so frequently support.

The Kenyan was merely pointing out that us English Scots Irish etc the only peoples that have not thrown off colonial rule from London. What's wrong with that? He's right too, the rulers have played with the whole world at some point just about everywhere causing mass murder on holocaust type scale in many places, total pillage of resourses here and abroad human and material both stolen and broken by it. The whole world has suffered including us on this island who haven't thrown off the shackles.................. Yet

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Freedom eh?

She's a fickle beast really, illusory at best if truth be told.

Humans will only ever be truly free when we are free to explore our own consciousness without prejudice or any legal system stopping us from doing so.

Right now we are contained by government and by law

no one is free

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

doesnt matter if we leave or stay in EU , the tories have made it abundantly clear they want to sell off the NHS

and they will carry out that plan brexit was a way to make that happen !

a reply to: CrastneyJPR
Interesting reply
Of course I massively disagree though because my vote was an informed vote about the potential outcomes.
You fear the changes of Brexit while I do not. You cannot know how it will turn out though, same as me, and crying "doom!" Won't change a thing.
We will never find agreement about this though so confidence in our nation state is the way forward as I see things.

originally posted by: CrastneyJPR
as someone else said - before we were in, with loads of opt outs. Now we're attempting to be out, with loads of opt ins.

Spot on

a reply to: sapien82

Or if we ever devise the means to depart this rock, in any kind of meaningful manner, that may offer up a modicum of freedom humanity has yet to experience.

God help the rest of the universe all the same because we seldom play nice with others.

Nothing is free, there is always a cost, one way or another.

a reply to: sapien82
Eh? No government has ever stopped me exploring my own consciousness, what do you mean?
If you mean drugs that's silly, I can walk down to town and score anything from pot to the spirit molecule within an hour, and I assume you can as well.
Be a slave in your mind if you like, but I won't, ever.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

"We will never find agreement about this though so confidence in our nation state is the way forward as I see things."

That seems to equate to confidence in our government's ability to navigate us through the Brexit process aka the Tories and Mrs May.

Do you really trust the Tory bastards to do so effectively and to the betterment of the everyday common Man?

a reply to: andy06shake
Lol I don't trust any politicians.
It is what it is and I'm glad I voted leave.
Even snivelling Corbyn is coming round to Brexit now, soon just be the lib dems and SNP are the only ones weeping about it lol

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Well at least we seem to agree on the politicians.

Seems to me through the entire nation is weeping about or has serious gripes about the Brexit process to one degree or another.

Fact is we still dont have a working Brexit plan, hence the people's ambivalence surrounding the notion.

I would love to have your faith mate, but from my own perspective, you simply cannot polish a turd, and Brexit is a big fat Tory jobbie that so far refuses to flush.

a reply to: andy06shake
Lol
We'll get the plumbers in at the next general election...after we leave the EU.
Give it time, we'll be fine, some short term challenges but those annual billions which we are still paying to the EU Will help, especially if you get your SNP/Labour coalition government or something, lots of cash they can blow on social projects.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Of course there is nothing to stop me or you from doing it! , as I am meeting with albert hoffmann on saturday

but its illegal and socially immoral , public opinion is also set up to dislike anyone who does these things

that was my point, we aren't free to openly explore our own consciousness, its illegal !
Who has the right to tell you what you can and cant do with your own body or mind!
If we are allowed to openly explore, we automatically start to have less confidence in government and more confidence of self , we rely less and less on them for everything as we become more aware and present.

also I find it bewildering that you have any confidence in our government to do anything
when we cant even make our digital documents accessible by law!

Therefore , our whole government is un-democratic by default as it is breaching its own legislation and since 2005
every party should be abolished for being un-democratic.

This is their own legislation and they are in breach!

So what makes you think our collective government can navigate the trouble waters that is BREXIT , when we cant even produce accessible documents for people with cognitive disabilities?

this kingdom of nations is ran by a bunch of worst #s, and its a #ing SHAM and there is no future, as we are all #ing dreaming
and you just said you dont trust politicians yet you somehow have faith everything will work out alright in their hands !

sorry Im a bit confused as you appear to have taken a blow to the head, are you alright mate ?
just joking but its contradictory to say the least , how can you say its going to work and we will be fine, yet you dont trust them ?
the reasoning behind it ?

given the track record of the UK government to do anything and do it well , what evidence do you have to support that idea ?

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

My mates a British plumber, need to be careful there, they will sniff your Mrs undies and order Snow to your address whilst on the job if left to there own devices at the drop of a hat.......or maybe that's just my mate. LoL

Cornwall might not do too well all the same after Brexit given the distinct possibility of lack of migrant workforce that supports the tourist industry, that may be a factor to consider.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Multiple referendums have happened in the past in the EU such as Ireland and the Lisbon Treaty.

I don't know the details off hand, but I will say that multiple referendums is an indication that the losing side wants a re-vote, then another, then another, until it finally goes their way.

That's not democracy.

Democracy is also not a one time vote that has been declared illegal without the option to change your mind. We dont vote for one PM or POTUS and then leave it at that.

Democracy is the ability of the population to change.

a reply to: sapien82
Dude I worked for the state cleaning up clerical records prior to Tony Blairs freedom of information bull#.
I was away in a 5 star hotel working 6 days a week at a clerical centre shredding documents for over half a year.
Thousands of other people were being paid to do the same.
I've never had trust in government although if it suits me I'll pretend allegiance to the hardest gang in town.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

In response to the OP.

I live in Scotland and i voted to leave the UK. Sadly only 45% of Scotland voted that way. Now with Brexit, where Scotland voted 62% to 38% to remain in the EU, England, our 10x's larger neighbour by population gets to drag us out after telling the Scottish population prior to their independence vote that voting to stay in the UK was the only way to retain EU membership. Along with this, 85% of Scotland fiscal levers are retained by London and no amount of asking for them to be returned is good enough.

I do not advocate a second vote on the EU, simply because to do so implies i endorsed the first vote, which i do not.

Its up to England to argue for a second vote, not Scotland as Scotland didnt vote to leave it.

But, that being said, i would rather all 4 nations split and went their seperate ways but remained friends and had a shared domestic defense policy (as we are an island). One shoe does not fit all and the London centric political sphere is damaging all 4 nations and cultures.