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Brexit is a Mess, how do we Fix it.

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posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 01:08 PM
link   
a reply to: ScepticScot

Like I said, we did, but you couldn't refute the logic so ignored it.

It's immoral to have a referendum on leaving then to not leave.

It would be like indy ref passing, then the government messing about for years, all the Scottish mps whining about how it can't happen, then someone saying ooh let's have another.

The only honorable option is to leave, work out the kinks for say 5 years then have a ref on rejoining if there is significant support for it.




posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol




Then again, The thought of true independence scares the #e out of Westminster.


and the # out of the Royals. They are some of the biggest investors in the conglomerates of mining and arms.

When we ( Australia ) tried to get foreign loans back in the 70's from the Arabs, they got the Queenies lackey the Governor General to sack our elected Government.



You see, Britain has never been an independent country, It's always relied on the blood and sweat of foreign slaves around the world to keep it afloat.


The US does the same with the US petrodollar. It too is beholden to the Oligarchy. Since 1974. The US population should have free healthcare and the highest standard of living in the world from the trillions recycled.

And Britain and US enjoy close relationships with the Saudis, sheikdoms created out thin air by lines on a map, who in turn have atrocious human rights.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 01:21 PM
link   
a reply to: ScepticScot

If I was a skeptic Scot I would be more concerned with this. Scotland is being treated like 2nd class citizens just as the Irish have been for hundreds of years.

www.businessforscotland.com...




In this article, I will expose the accounting trick that hides Scotland’s wealth. I will also supply solid evidence that if Scotland was already an independent country our economy would be booming and public finances debt-free.

The confidence trick

For generations the people of Scotland have been fed a negative narrative on the health of Scotland’s economy. A depressing picture has been drawn by Westminster politicians of Scotland as a subsidised state dependent on the UK for charitable hand-outs with higher levels of debt and a dependency on the public sector. Scotland has been told that without the generosity of the UK to bail us out, Scotland would be a bankrupt nation

edit on 22-9-2018 by TheConstruKctionofLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 01:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Soloprotocol




Then again, The thought of true independence scares the #e out of Westminster.


and the # out of the Royals. They are some of the biggest investors in the conglomerates of mining and arms.

When we ( Australia ) tried to get foreign loans back in the 70's from the Arabs, they got the Queenies lackey the Governor General to sack our elected Government.



You see, Britain has never been an independent country, It's always relied on the blood and sweat of foreign slaves around the world to keep it afloat.


The US does the same with the US petrodollar. It too is beholden to the Oligarchy. Since 1974. The US population should have free healthcare and the highest standard of living in the world from the trillions recycled.

And Britain and US enjoy close relationships with the Saudis, sheikdoms created out thin air by lines on a map, who in turn have atrocious human rights.

If Britains history was taught in schools here, the true history, the UK would have been split years ago. People would have decided it was time to distance itself from the bastards. There are so many with blood on their hands, Churchill for one should have been tried for crimes against humanity. He's a national hero here.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 01:40 PM
link   

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Soloprotocol



So just like Westminster then.


You know my opinion on Westminster and the people that infest the place.



Only we'll have full control over our own taxation and Assets including Oil and Gas.


Another moment of hilarity from our resident comedian.
You won't have an assembly to set taxes. Brussels and Strasbourg will set your tax rates and control your 'assets' - and it'll distribute as it see's fit.

I really don't know what dream world you are living in.


Are you suggesting Brussels controls Westminsters taxation plans for the UK. I remember Westminster increasing VAT and Income tax to 20% in 2008 not the EU.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 01:49 PM
link   
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight




If I was a skeptic Scot I would be more concerned with this. Scotland is being treated like 2nd class citizens just as the Irish have been for hundreds of years


Much like how you Australians treat the Aborigines then.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 01:51 PM
link   

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Soloprotocol



So just like Westminster then.


You know my opinion on Westminster and the people that infest the place.



Only we'll have full control over our own taxation and Assets including Oil and Gas.


Another moment of hilarity from our resident comedian.
You won't have an assembly to set taxes. Brussels and Strasbourg will set your tax rates and control your 'assets' - and it'll distribute as it see's fit.

I really don't know what dream world you are living in.


Are you suggesting Brussels controls Westminsters taxation plans for the UK. I remember Westminster increasing VAT and Income tax to 20% in 2008 not the EU.


EU rules prohibit reducing vat below 15% for most things and reducing or zeroing vat on domestic fuel which is a huge issue for the massive number of people in fuel poverty. No matter who you vote for, if we remain in the eu, they won't ever be able to cut vat on gas and electricity for millions of old and vulnerable people.

So, vat going up to 20% was just the tories, vat never being able to go below 15% or 5% for fuel is all the eu.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 01:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight




If I was a skeptic Scot I would be more concerned with this. Scotland is being treated like 2nd class citizens just as the Irish have been for hundreds of years


Much like how you Australians treat the Aborigines then.


At least they aint shooting them for sport.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 01:54 PM
link   

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Soloprotocol



So just like Westminster then.


You know my opinion on Westminster and the people that infest the place.



Only we'll have full control over our own taxation and Assets including Oil and Gas.


Another moment of hilarity from our resident comedian.
You won't have an assembly to set taxes. Brussels and Strasbourg will set your tax rates and control your 'assets' - and it'll distribute as it see's fit.

I really don't know what dream world you are living in.


Are you suggesting Brussels controls Westminsters taxation plans for the UK. I remember Westminster increasing VAT and Income tax to 20% in 2008 not the EU.


EU rules prohibit reducing vat below 15% for most things and reducing or zeroing vat on domestic fuel which is a huge issue for the massive number of people in fuel poverty. No matter who you vote for, if we remain in the eu, they won't ever be able to cut vat on gas and electricity for millions of old and vulnerable people.

So, vat going up to 20% was just the tories, vat never being able to go below 15% or 5% for fuel is all the eu.

And you actually believe after March VAT will go below 15% and they'll reduce domestic fuel tax by a single %. ?



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 01:55 PM
link   
a reply to: Soloprotocol
Drama queen lol



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 01:59 PM
link   

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Soloprotocol



So just like Westminster then.


You know my opinion on Westminster and the people that infest the place.



Only we'll have full control over our own taxation and Assets including Oil and Gas.


Another moment of hilarity from our resident comedian.
You won't have an assembly to set taxes. Brussels and Strasbourg will set your tax rates and control your 'assets' - and it'll distribute as it see's fit.

I really don't know what dream world you are living in.


Are you suggesting Brussels controls Westminsters taxation plans for the UK. I remember Westminster increasing VAT and Income tax to 20% in 2008 not the EU.


EU rules prohibit reducing vat below 15% for most things and reducing or zeroing vat on domestic fuel which is a huge issue for the massive number of people in fuel poverty. No matter who you vote for, if we remain in the eu, they won't ever be able to cut vat on gas and electricity for millions of old and vulnerable people.

So, vat going up to 20% was just the tories, vat never being able to go below 15% or 5% for fuel is all the eu.

And you actually believe after March VAT will go below 15% and they'll reduce domestic fuel tax by a single %. ?


The point is that as an eu member, you can't ever vote for anyone who can get rid of the vat on domestic fuel. I'm sure Sturgeon would like to zero it as well as Corbyn, but they aren't allowed to because people we were not allowed to vote into office, met in secret in Brussels and decided their rules were more important than some people dying in winter in the UK



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 02:05 PM
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originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Still not heard an argument against a second referendum.

I argue against a second vote............


Plead give an actual reason why? Genuinely can't see a single valid reason against.


The matter has already been put to a vote.


In no way precludes another vote. If people want to leave then it will confirm it. If not then we shouldn't leave.


They do want to leave, and the referendum proved that.


And if they still want to leave another referendum will confirm that. If not we shouldn't leave because of a vote 3 years in a advance.


The matter has already been decided. They voted leave, and they will leave.


You can keep saying that, still doesn't prevent a new decision being made. A fundamental point of democracy is decisions can change.


That’s not a point of democracy. Elections and referendums are binding, not recast because the losing side wants another go of it.



Referendums aren't binding in UK but that is a technical point.

Elections and referendums only apply until superseded by another one. That's why we don't have the Whigs in charge.


If you want a referendum to return to the EU after a few years, I’d say go for it.


Let's save the huge cost and upheaval and check people still want to leave first.


Would you be saying that if remain won?


If the result had been this close leave would have campaigned for another referendum and rightly so. Nigel confirmed as much.

Besides which the two options are not equal. Staying in means maintaining the option to go. Leaving would not have the option to return of our own volition.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: ScepticScot
I gave you a reason, I want my first vote to be carried out first then do referendums every week for all I care.
I voted to leave the EU and I was fully informed by the remain camp about possible outcomes as you were.


First potential now possible. What's wrong with voting on the actual deal?

Besides which it isn't decided on your vote. If the majority now want to stay then we should stay.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 02:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Still not heard an argument against a second referendum.

I argue against a second vote............


Plead give an actual reason why? Genuinely can't see a single valid reason against.


The matter has already been put to a vote.


In no way precludes another vote. If people want to leave then it will confirm it. If not then we shouldn't leave.


They do want to leave, and the referendum proved that.


And if they still want to leave another referendum will confirm that. If not we shouldn't leave because of a vote 3 years in a advance.


The matter has already been decided. They voted leave, and they will leave.


You can keep saying that, still doesn't prevent a new decision being made. A fundamental point of democracy is decisions can change.


That’s not a point of democracy. Elections and referendums are binding, not recast because the losing side wants another go of it.



Really? Tell that to Nigel Farage. Just before the referendum he said that if 'Remain' won narrowly then another referendum would have to be held within a few years. Of course he retracted that the day after the referendum.
Don't people have the right to change their minds after they finally see what a god-awful mess the Government is making of the entire thing, as scum like Boris Johnson put themselves before their country?


They do. I see no problem with having a referendum to rejoin the EU after Brexit.



Speaking with friends and fellow workers who voted to remain, most of them have now said they wished they had voted leave.

This is a direct result of how The E.U. are treating The U.K. is these so called negotiations.


Then let's give them the opportunity to do so. No downside.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 02:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Still not heard an argument against a second referendum.

I argue against a second vote............


Plead give an actual reason why? Genuinely can't see a single valid reason against.


The matter has already been put to a vote.


In no way precludes another vote. If people want to leave then it will confirm it. If not then we shouldn't leave.


They do want to leave, and the referendum proved that.


And if they still want to leave another referendum will confirm that. If not we shouldn't leave because of a vote 3 years in a advance.


The matter has already been decided. They voted leave, and they will leave.


You can keep saying that, still doesn't prevent a new decision being made. A fundamental point of democracy is decisions can change.


That’s not a point of democracy. Elections and referendums are binding, not recast because the losing side wants another go of it.



Really? Tell that to Nigel Farage. Just before the referendum he said that if 'Remain' won narrowly then another referendum would have to be held within a few years. Of course he retracted that the day after the referendum.
Don't people have the right to change their minds after they finally see what a god-awful mess the Government is making of the entire thing, as scum like Boris Johnson put themselves before their country?


They do. I see no problem with having a referendum to rejoin the EU after Brexit.



Speaking with friends and fellow workers who voted to remain, most of them have now said they wished they had voted leave.

This is a direct result of how The E.U. are treating The U.K. is these so called negotiations.


Then let's give them the opportunity to do so. No downside.


No.

It's all done and dusted. To late.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 02:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Still not heard an argument against a second referendum.

I argue against a second vote............


Plead give an actual reason why? Genuinely can't see a single valid reason against.


The matter has already been put to a vote.


In no way precludes another vote. If people want to leave then it will confirm it. If not then we shouldn't leave.


They do want to leave, and the referendum proved that.


And if they still want to leave another referendum will confirm that. If not we shouldn't leave because of a vote 3 years in a advance.


The matter has already been decided. They voted leave, and they will leave.


You can keep saying that, still doesn't prevent a new decision being made. A fundamental point of democracy is decisions can change.


That’s not a point of democracy. Elections and referendums are binding, not recast because the losing side wants another go of it.



Really? Tell that to Nigel Farage. Just before the referendum he said that if 'Remain' won narrowly then another referendum would have to be held within a few years. Of course he retracted that the day after the referendum.
Don't people have the right to change their minds after they finally see what a god-awful mess the Government is making of the entire thing, as scum like Boris Johnson put themselves before their country?


They do. I see no problem with having a referendum to rejoin the EU after Brexit.



Speaking with friends and fellow workers who voted to remain, most of them have now said they wished they had voted leave.

This is a direct result of how The E.U. are treating The U.K. is these so called negotiations.


Then let's give them the opportunity to do so. No downside.


No.

It's all done and dusted. To late.


Why because you say so?



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 02:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Still not heard an argument against a second referendum.

I argue against a second vote............


Plead give an actual reason why? Genuinely can't see a single valid reason against.


The matter has already been put to a vote.


In no way precludes another vote. If people want to leave then it will confirm it. If not then we shouldn't leave.


They do want to leave, and the referendum proved that.


And if they still want to leave another referendum will confirm that. If not we shouldn't leave because of a vote 3 years in a advance.


The matter has already been decided. They voted leave, and they will leave.


You can keep saying that, still doesn't prevent a new decision being made. A fundamental point of democracy is decisions can change.


That’s not a point of democracy. Elections and referendums are binding, not recast because the losing side wants another go of it.



Really? Tell that to Nigel Farage. Just before the referendum he said that if 'Remain' won narrowly then another referendum would have to be held within a few years. Of course he retracted that the day after the referendum.
Don't people have the right to change their minds after they finally see what a god-awful mess the Government is making of the entire thing, as scum like Boris Johnson put themselves before their country?


They do. I see no problem with having a referendum to rejoin the EU after Brexit.



Speaking with friends and fellow workers who voted to remain, most of them have now said they wished they had voted leave.

This is a direct result of how The E.U. are treating The U.K. is these so called negotiations.


Then let's give them the opportunity to do so. No downside.


No.

It's all done and dusted. To late.


Why because you say so?


You may have missed it, but Teresa May say NO.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 02:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Still not heard an argument against a second referendum.

I argue against a second vote............


Plead give an actual reason why? Genuinely can't see a single valid reason against.


The matter has already been put to a vote.


In no way precludes another vote. If people want to leave then it will confirm it. If not then we shouldn't leave.


They do want to leave, and the referendum proved that.


And if they still want to leave another referendum will confirm that. If not we shouldn't leave because of a vote 3 years in a advance.


The matter has already been decided. They voted leave, and they will leave.


You can keep saying that, still doesn't prevent a new decision being made. A fundamental point of democracy is decisions can change.


That’s not a point of democracy. Elections and referendums are binding, not recast because the losing side wants another go of it.



Really? Tell that to Nigel Farage. Just before the referendum he said that if 'Remain' won narrowly then another referendum would have to be held within a few years. Of course he retracted that the day after the referendum.
Don't people have the right to change their minds after they finally see what a god-awful mess the Government is making of the entire thing, as scum like Boris Johnson put themselves before their country?


They do. I see no problem with having a referendum to rejoin the EU after Brexit.



Speaking with friends and fellow workers who voted to remain, most of them have now said they wished they had voted leave.

This is a direct result of how The E.U. are treating The U.K. is these so called negotiations.


Then let's give them the opportunity to do so. No downside.


No.

It's all done and dusted. To late.


Why because you say so?


You may have missed it, but Teresa May say NO.


Theresa May can't even manage her own party over Europe, never mind the whole country.

Still no one has actually given a valid reason not to have another referendum.
edit on 22-9-2018 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 02:19 PM
link   

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Still not heard an argument against a second referendum.

I argue against a second vote............


Plead give an actual reason why? Genuinely can't see a single valid reason against.


The matter has already been put to a vote.


In no way precludes another vote. If people want to leave then it will confirm it. If not then we shouldn't leave.


They do want to leave, and the referendum proved that.


And if they still want to leave another referendum will confirm that. If not we shouldn't leave because of a vote 3 years in a advance.


The matter has already been decided. They voted leave, and they will leave.


You can keep saying that, still doesn't prevent a new decision being made. A fundamental point of democracy is decisions can change.


That’s not a point of democracy. Elections and referendums are binding, not recast because the losing side wants another go of it.



Really? Tell that to Nigel Farage. Just before the referendum he said that if 'Remain' won narrowly then another referendum would have to be held within a few years. Of course he retracted that the day after the referendum.
Don't people have the right to change their minds after they finally see what a god-awful mess the Government is making of the entire thing, as scum like Boris Johnson put themselves before their country?


They do. I see no problem with having a referendum to rejoin the EU after Brexit.



Speaking with friends and fellow workers who voted to remain, most of them have now said they wished they had voted leave.

This is a direct result of how The E.U. are treating The U.K. is these so called negotiations.


Then let's give them the opportunity to do so. No downside.


No.

It's all done and dusted. To late.


Why because you say so?


You may have missed it, but Teresa May say NO.


Theresa May can't even manage her win party over Europe, never mind the whole country.

Still no one has actually given a valid reason not to have another referendum.


Write to Teresa May then, instead of crying on here.



posted on Sep, 22 2018 @ 02:20 PM
link   
a reply to: alldaylong

Whose crying? Seems only one side is scared of a second referendum.



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